Do We Really Need This Kind of Bigotry?

[oldbadger]

On second thought, maybe I am pejudiced against bigoty?

Prejudiced against Bigoty?
Why.... you are a murderer against Bigoty. :yes:

 

[LuisDantas]

Because if she was a Christian that must mean she is now an apostate and a transgressor, right?

By definition, she does become an apostate of Christianity, indeed.

Unless, I suppose, her previous religious afiliation decides for whatever reason that they still consider her a faithful adherent of their group.

It would be weird and unusual, but there is a whole spectrum of groups attempting to present the frontier between Christianity and Judaism as not very significant, so who knows.

All the same, those are still exceptions. If she was previously, say, a Muslim, an Orthodox or Roman Catholic Christian, a Hindu, Buddhist or Mormon and decided to convert to Judaism, most people would indeed consider her an apostate of her previous faith.

That is no big deal in and of itself, though. It is just another way of saying that she changed her religion. Any hurtful intent is in the reading of the word and in the feelings that may be associated, not in the word itself.

As for being a transgressor, I guess you would need to define transgression for the purposes of your question. Is someone who goes through a divorce a transgressor, for instance? Divorce does involve refusal to keep promises previously made, after all.

But somehow I doubt that is or should be the real issue. Do you care that much about which words are used, or is the matter instead what people do and feel?

 

[LuisDantas]

OK..... subtext....
He could not become a Jew, nor a Jehovah's Witness, nor a Muslim...... et al.
Think on this........ could you become a Jehovah's Witness, for example?
Well .... could you?

My local JW elder would say 'Yes, Jayhawker could....'
...... but..... could you?
That is the subtext.

May you be a bit more explicit? It is certainly possible to convert into both Judaism and the JW Faith, albeit obviously not into both at the same time.

Are you implying that somehow it is not possible? Why so?

 

[xkatz]

OK..... subtext....
He could not become a Jew, nor a Jehovah's Witness, nor a Muslim...... et al.
Think on this........ could you become a Jehovah's Witness, for example?
Well .... could you?

My local JW elder would say 'Yes, Jayhawker could....'
...... but..... could you?
That is the subtext.

IOW, he didn't want to convert Judaism...?

 

[Tarheeler]

OK..... subtext....
He could not become a Jew, nor a Jehovah's Witness, nor a Muslim...... et al.
Think on this........ could you become a Jehovah's Witness, for example?
Well .... could you?

My local JW elder would say 'Yes, Jayhawker could....'
...... but..... could you?
That is the subtext.

I became a Jew.

 

[oldbadger]

Very true. In fact, just this past Sunday I helped a nice young lady become a Jew. One of my most pleasant duties and privileges as a rabbi.

Ah.......
May I say Sir, that I think you look most fine in your robes..... :yes:

Now....... please be patient a little longer.......
Have you spoken as a Rabbi on this thread, or as a Father....?
Would there have been a difference between thoughts of a natural-father and those of a Rabbi?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

OK..... subtext....
He could not become a Jew, nor a Jehovah's Witness, nor a Muslim...... et al.
Think on this........ could you become a Jehovah's Witness, for example?
Well .... could you?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

If this was an issue with your father-in-law, then it's wholly irrelevant to this discussion. The fact remains that there are no racial-ethnic barriers to conversion to Judaism.

 

[oldbadger]

And what was she before she started practicing Judaism? Because if she was a Christian that must mean she is now an apostate and a transgressor, right?

Click

 

[oldbadger]

Darn! I'm in dire straits now. There is a rule against misrepresenting other forum members, after all.

I can't wait to have a rant about Liber-- whatever purples.... but not here, eh?

 

[Levite]

And what was she before she started practicing Judaism? Because if she was a Christian that must mean she is now an apostate and a transgressor, right?

As far as I know, Christianity is not a socioreligious ethnicity. Most religions these days aren't. And in any case, it is not our concern what our converts are or are not according to the status of any former religion they may have had. Once one converts to Judaism, one is a Jew, and is only bound by the obligations of our covenant, not by any other religion or similar affiliation.

In this case, I am happy to say that the lady in question came from a mixed background of nominal Christianity and secular apathy, she herself is both knowledgeable about Judaism and passionate about being part of the Jewish People, and her family and friends seem to all wish her well in her new identity.

 

[Levite]

Have you spoken as a Rabbi on this thread, or as a Father....?
Would there have been a difference between thoughts of a natural-father and those of a Rabbi?

Why in the world would there be a difference? I became a rabbi because it was a career of service to my community that embodied all the love and passion I have for my people, my tradition, and God. My duty, my privilege, and my joy as a father is to give my son a good, safe, happy Jewish upbringing, and to instill in him (hopefully) the same love, respect, honor, and pleasure in his Jewish identity as my parents instilled in me.

 

[oldbadger]

May you be a bit more explicit? It is certainly possible to convert into both Judaism and the JW Faith, albeit obviously not into both at the same time.

Are you implying that somehow it is not possible? Why so?

Yes, I am......
Luis..... could you become a JW?
Luis..... would you become a JW?
If you would not.... then you could not.....

I am not talking about open doors here.... but rather how to fetch an obstinate through 'em. What crane do you have for this job?

If you held conversation with this man for a few minutes then you would be able to declare to the world 'Yep folks...... I get it. This man cannot convert to a become anything that is not already'. Which is about where I believed that the RF member might be at a well, but for differing reasons, of course.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yes, I am......
Luis..... could you become a JW?

If I have both the desire and the appropriate beliefs (and met a JW priest willing to endorse my conversion), I must assume that yes, I could.

Luis..... would you become a JW?
If you would not.... then you could not.....

Am I supposed to feel hurt for not getting what I do not want to have?

Or are you meaning to talk about something else? I'm confused.

I am not talking about open doors here.... but rather how to fetch an obstinate through 'em. What crane do you have for this job?

If you held conversation with this man for a few minutes then you would be able to declare to the world 'Yep folks...... I get it. This man cannot convert to a become anything that is not already'. Which is about where I believed that the RF member might be at a well, but for differing reasons, of course.

I... have no idea of what you mean. I truly do not.

 

[oldbadger]

Why in the world would there be a difference? I became a rabbi because it was a career of service to my community that embodied all the love and passion I have for my people, my tradition, and God. My duty, my privilege, and my joy as a father is to give my son a good, safe, happy Jewish upbringing, and to instill in him (hopefully) the same love, respect, honor, and pleasure in his Jewish identity as my parents instilled in me.

Now we can come at it.,.,...
I must leave RF at this time........ I have much to put to you later, if you please...

 

[xkatz]

If you would not.... then you could not.....

No if you would not, then you simply WOULD not.

For instance- there is a difference between me not being able to save a bunch of people in a burning building b/c I am a 100 miles away (could not)

vs.

me not wanting to do that simply because despite me being down the block, I don't want to ruin my clothes (would not)

There's quite an obvious difference in could vs would in that sense.

 

[dantech]

Why is it that these thread always turn into a chain of hypotheticals?

 

[Levite]

Why is it that these thread always turn into a chain of hypotheticals?

Do you think a thread like this one could exist without turning into ridiculous hypotheticals?

 

[Prophet]

Why is it that these thread always turn into a chain of hypotheticals?

I'm not sure but perhaps it is due to the utter refusal on one side to even consider that anti-miscegenation laws make for a state-sponsored fertile environment for bigoted philosophies to proliferate unchecked.

 

[Prophet]

As far as I know, Christianity is not a socioreligious ethnicity. Most religions these days aren't. And in any case, it is not our concern what our converts are or are not according to the status of any former religion they may have had. Once one converts to Judaism, one is a Jew, and is only bound by the obligations of our covenant, not by any other religion or similar affiliation.

In this case, I am happy to say that the lady in question came from a mixed background of nominal Christianity and secular apathy, she herself is both knowledgeable about Judaism and passionate about being part of the Jewish People, and her family and friends seem to all wish her well in her new identity.

It's nice that she wasn't born into a socioreligious ethnicity that would disown her if she found that the religion she was born into wasn't the one for her.

 

[oldbadger]

Do you think a thread like this one could exist without turning into ridiculous hypotheticals?

.....not for long. Shall we bring it to the point?

The OP:

Israeli police on Sunday blocked more than 200 far-right Israeli protesters from rushing guests at a wedding of a Jewish woman and Muslim man as they shouted "death to the Arabs" in a sign of tensions stoked by the Gaza war.

Can we agree that these protesters were Jews?

You posted that:

LEVITE
I am firmly opposed to intermarriage,

I posted that:

For what its worth to you (?) I can't support your firm opposition to intermarriage.

.... what was it worth to you?

Much later you posted:

I became a rabbi because it was a career of service to my community

And recently you initiated a conversion:

I helped a nice young lady become a Jew. One of my most pleasant duties and privileges as a rabbi.

And you also pointed out:

it is not our concern what our converts are or are not according to the status of any former religion they may have had.

See? No hypotheticals now.
Look at that for carelessness, then. You care for a community. You have joy at conversions, care not for their apostasies, do not take interest any previous socioreligious connections, yet voice firm opposition when a Jew leaves your community or any Jewish one to marry into another faith or religion!
Further to this, somewhere in Israel there are Rabbis who a Father to those thugs at that Israeli wedding, and if that Rabbi showed 'firm opposition' in any way at all then that Rabbi is acted disgracefully, being in a position of high responsibility in a country beset by severe conflicts!
I put it to you that this kind of gross carelessness for other communities needs to be addressed and corrected immediately, everywhere and forever.

I accept that somewhere in Israel is an Imam (probably Sunni?) who has had a most fruitful day with a convert from Judaism. That Imam needs to consider the same points, of course.

I do not support your firm opposition to that situation!

That's where I came in........ over to you, if you wish.?