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Do we really want to be more like Sweden?
- Thread starter Quetzal
- Start date
I watched it. Socialism sounds great until it goes too far and the realities stare you in the face.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
All it takes is for a person to look at Greece.
Shad
Veteran Member
They are not as good at Hockey as Canadians. I will pass.
charlie sc
Well-Known Member
Interesting. It's nice that capitalism is working for Sweden, but I'm not sure how sustainable it is, or capitalism in general, before it starts to seriously infringe on people's rights. Capitalism will always generate superiority(in every regard) based on capital, but it has incentive. Socialism creates equality but incentive is reduced.
Eventually, as capitalism removes more boundaries, the inequality becomes more apparent. What's really needed is some sort of socialist economy that has grown out of monetary incentives.
Eventually, as capitalism removes more boundaries, the inequality becomes more apparent. What's really needed is some sort of socialist economy that has grown out of monetary incentives.
North Korea is also an example that can be used as a warning.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
Sweden and the Nordic countries are all free market economies that also take care of their citizens. Nordics don't really understand villages made of huts with people starving, nor some central authority figure deciding everything. What US banter about socialism is about, no one at all here can relate to.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
If you face hard realities, it's better to face them in places like Sweden (as a citizen) instead of places where no one cares unless you got money, connections...
sooda
Veteran Member
I'm surprised. Thanks for sharing.
.
Poverty in Sweden - The Borgen Project
Dec 02, 2016 · Poverty in Sweden. Poverty in Sweden is an issue the government addresses through a variety of social safety net programs, such as welfare and publicly-owned housing. Sweden is a parliamentary democracy. The government maintains a policy of transparency, allowing all Swedish citizens to view government documents on publicly available archives.
https://borgenproject.org/poverty-in-sweden/
Fast Facts About Poverty in Sweden:
- Fourteen percent of Sweden’s population lived below the poverty line in 2011.
- Sweden’s infant mortality rate is 2.6 deaths for every 1,000 births.
- Virtually all Swedish citizens have access to improved drinking water sources and sanitation facilities.
- Only 100 Swedish people are estimated to die from HIV/AIDS every year.
- Primary to tertiary education expectancy is 17 years for males and 20 years for females.
- Sweden’s youth unemployment rate was 22.9 percent in 2014, and its adult unemployment rate was 7.4 percent in 2015, down from 7.9 percent in 2014.
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Yep. Better not change the currently broken capitalist system because of strawman examples.
PureX
Veteran Member
The problem is that Americans have no idea what socialism is, because the capitalists don't want us to, and they make sure that there is an ocean of misinformation to keep us from ever actually understanding it. Socialism is not the government owning and controlling everything. That's called a totalitarian dictatorship. Socialism is not 'the people' owning and controlling everything and sharing it equally. That's called communism. Also, governments are not economies, and economies are not governments. And lastly, the mistakes some country made 50 years ago are not the mistakes they are making, today, nor do any of these mistakes have to be our mistakes. The idea is not to mimic some other nation's past, or present, but to LEARN FROM WHAT THEY GOT RIGHT. And what they've gotten right is that they have set the well-being of their people above the profits of their wealthy elite, above the desire of their politicians to wield absolute power, and above the innate bigotry of the majority against the minority. And they do this by making sure that the needs of commerce, of social well-being, of the individual, and of governmental control get equal representation in the mechanisms of their governmental process. Which is what we desperately need to learn how to do, here in the U.S.
No government or economic system will ever be perfect. But ours is clearly failing us, and it's getting progressively and exponentially worse. It's failing us because almost none of us are being represented by the people making the decisions that effect our lives, because they are making all those decisions based on their own desires and well-being, and at our expense. We are a society devouring itself with it's own unfettered greed and lust for absolute power. And we are running out of time.
No government or economic system will ever be perfect. But ours is clearly failing us, and it's getting progressively and exponentially worse. It's failing us because almost none of us are being represented by the people making the decisions that effect our lives, because they are making all those decisions based on their own desires and well-being, and at our expense. We are a society devouring itself with it's own unfettered greed and lust for absolute power. And we are running out of time.
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Jumi
Well-Known Member
Poverty in Sweden? By most countries standards, not really. With a population of almost 10 million people, Sweden is a capitalist country in the European Union. - from that link
Someone poor in Sweden isn't the poor you have in the US.
The US has the highest, by far, infant mortality rates of so-called Western countries with 6.5 deaths for every 1000, around the same as Kuwait and Chile.
It would be barbaric if they didn't. What country couldn't handle even the basics like drinkable tap water?
Yes. It's a high level.
That's a real problem, only one on the list. Still if US had similar unemployment rates people would be dying in the street. While these people can study to get qualified for more jobs. It's a working system, only they were overconfident during the recent immigration to Europe.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Most Americans couldn't give you a coherent definition if you asked.
Terrywoodenpic
Oldest Heretic
They have been taught to believe that socialism is all things that are bad and evil.
They believe it in the same way they believe guns are necessary.
And that the constitution is perfect, and the Bible is the word of God.
They do not question any of these things as they are self evidently true.
Such is the foundation of ignorance.
Notanumber
A Free Man
Pat Condell and others have been telling us about the sorry state of Sweden for years.
Kangaroo Feathers
Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
The popular American attitude toward socialism is a holdover from the Cold War, when demonising the enemy was considered a legitimate and necessary defensive strategy. We could argue for days over whether it actually was necessary , but the fact is that now, since the Cold War is long over, the kneejerk "Socialism is bad because it's wrong, it's wrong because it's bad" axiomatic belief is no longer necessary, and arguably self harming. It's rather analogous to an autoimmune disease, where the body's defensive reaction starts attacking it's own tissues after a genuine threat is neutralised.
As others have observed, few Americans could give a meaningful explanation of what socialism is, let alone what's actually bad about it. Sure, they'll point to examples of failed socialist states, Venezuela is currently popular, but I'm yet to see a single person who uses the "socialism is bad because Venezuela" talking point explain exactly how socialism is responsible for Venezuela's current situation.
sooda
Veteran Member
I happen to agree with you which is why I posted the article.. If you read the whole article it talks about their immigrant experience with 1500 Syrians a week..
"When immigrants arrive in Sweden, the government participates in their integration by helping them gain employment or education for employment. These measures have become especially important in recent days, as some reports approximate that Sweeden has taken in 1,500 Syrian refugees per week. The government recently decided to slow the influx of refugees into the country."
sooda
Veteran Member
Pat Condell? He's a blooming idiot. I mean full retard.