Do Willful Bums Deserve Charity?

[Stanyon]

Whether through religious teachings or just plain laziness how do people justify being willful parasites on society and do you think they deserve any charity/help or should they just get a job and earn their daily bread just like the rest of us? I have no problem helping those in actual need, most everyone hits hard times at some point and as long as a person is actually taking steps to fix their situation I don't mind giving a hand up once in a while, now on the other hand a willful bum whose life plan is to leach off the fruits of others labour I have no sympathy for and they can die in the gutter for all I care if that is what it comes to, so it is a no for me.

 

[Sanzbir]

Eh. They aren't as bad as the fraud-beggars that plague the Middle East.

 

[Sunstone]

Some folks have been down so long, they've given up on rising up. Is that a "willful bum" to you? Others, for one reason or another, simply can't handle a "normal" life. Is that a "willful bum" to you?

What percentage of destitute people are "willful bums", in your opinion? Is this a major problem?

And what, in your opinion, is it about "willfully" destitute people that makes them deserve death, or "dying in the gutter", as you put it? Hate to see what other draconian punishments you favor for miscreants. Torture for panhandlers? Imprisonment for body odor?

 

[Father Heathen]

Usually "willful bums" are mentally ill.

 

[pearl]

The problem is how to discern whether one is 'willful' or down on their 'luck'. Panhandling is allowed in our city. I find it impossible to make a moral choice, would rather be
'taken in' than refuse one in need. In the words of Jerry Falwell, " When the bums get hungry, they'll look for jobs."
There are too many people today working two or even three jobs trying to make ends meet. Its not motivation they need, its a fair break.

 

[sayak83]

Whether through religious teachings or just plain laziness how do people justify being willful parasites on society and do you think they deserve any charity/help or should they just get a job and earn their daily bread just like the rest of us? I have no problem helping those in actual need, most everyone hits hard times at some point and as long as a person is actually taking steps to fix their situation I don't mind giving a hand up once in a while, now on the other hand a willful bum whose life plan is to leach off the fruits of others labour I have no sympathy for and they can die in the gutter for all I care if that is what it comes to, so it is a no for me.

Yes of course.

 

[Father Heathen]

If someone decides that they want to help, they should donate to a charitable organizations rather than directly to those in need just to ensure that the money is invested properly. That way you know it will be used to buy food, clothing, etc. rather than alcohol or drugs.

 

[Kemosloby]

Sure but they don't deserve cell phones paid for and things like that. Food, clothing, shelter

 

[Spiderman]

Usually "willful bums" are mentally ill.

Good Point! They are indeed handicapped!

 

[osgart]

a willful bum infringes on truly helpless people's charity benefit.

can and won't doesn't deserve a charity one thing.

if it were a mere case of inability I'd think differently.

 

[Stanyon]

Some folks have been down so long, they've given up on rising up.

Reminds me of that quote from The Shawshank Redemption "Get busy living or get busy dying"

What percentage of destitute people are "willful bums", in your opinion? Is this a major problem?

It would be logical to make that determination on a case by case basis would it not?

And what, in your opinion, is it about "willfully" destitute people that makes them deserve death, or "dying in the gutter", as you put it?

If it comes to them dying it would be by their own hand because they have willfully given up on a very basic instinct and that is survival and the daily decision of their continued life or death is natures call. Constantly giving handouts to these types is much like putting a brain dead person on a life support machine, there is a difference between helping and enabling.

Hate to see what other draconian punishments you favor for miscreants. Torture for panhandlers? Imprisonment for body odor?

Now you are just being silly, a simple cleanup at a gas station or store bathroom would do for body odor and more than a few of the more persistent and aggressive panhandlers do deserve a punch in the face or a beating on the street level, you should see some of the crap they pull.

 

[Sunstone]

Usually "willful bums" are mentally ill.

A friend of mine, a therapist who works with the homeless. has told me three quarters of her clients are suffering from one psychological disorder or another, and often multiple disorders.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

It would be logical to make that determination on a case by case basis would it not?

He asked you how many there are, how you determine it, and whether you believe it is a serious problem.

 

[BSM1]

If someone decides that they want to help, they should donate to a charitable organizations rather than directly to those in need just to ensure that the money is invested properly. That way you know it will be used to buy food, clothing, etc. rather than alcohol or drugs.

Not that I disagree with you, but if you believe in giving freely what difference could it make how they want to spend it? This goes right to heart of the OP's question.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

If we had a reliable methodology to determine who is deserving of resources and who is not, I would support using it. For me, welfare programs are always about the kids. Mom or dad may be a negative influence, but their kids deserve more.

I justify this with a belief in Maslow's heigharcy of needs, and without the basic physiological and safety needs met. . . humans cannot learn, grow, or care about themselves or others. Millions of children grow up in environments that are not healthy of safe. Welfare can reduce such conditions.

Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia

But I'm not sure anyone would disagree with me on the above. The real disagreement is about proportions. I believe this is why people reject or defend welfare.

What proportion of welfare recipients are "willful?"
What baseline proportion of "willful" recipients cause you to lose tolerance and faith in the system at present?
Is either of these questions based on anything other than your own perception?
Is there a method to determine real numbers here, or are we using perceptions or stereotypes of impoverished people?

I have a suspicion that anyone's belief about the proportions of "deserving bums"/ "willful bums" will determine your feelings. As a teacher at a title one school, I actually see the myriad ways that money and assistance can positively affect the lives of the students and families I serve.

Since I see and interact with poverty everyday, I believe that the proportion of "willful bums" is quite small. I use my direct experience to justify my belief.

That's my justification. . . What's your justification?

 

[Jumi]

I think they deserve help instead. One time I talked to a willful bum, he used to be a rich guy who was on top of his game, lost all his wealth when an economic depression happened, lost all his friends, wife and kids in the process and he probably thought all anyone ever cared about him was his money. He knew he could never get to where he had been even if he tried with all the debts he had. Probably anything he earned would get taken to pay for his debts. I think he sort of lost it there and couldn't get out. Many in his place committed suicide, were they more worthy?

Who knows what he thought of bums when he felt like a king.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I don't think we have to worry about guessing who is willful. I think a 'Willful bum' is going to get into trouble, because they will be thieves or scammers. They will be removed from the equation by that.

A typical bum is not so much will-full as will-less or hope-less. Their internals are telling them to die, to stop and do nothing and to get out of the way of the rest of humanity. Its pretty different from being willful.

 

[Stanyon]

He asked you how many there are, how you determine it, and whether you believe it is a serious problem.

I will throw you a bone in the form of a question, please explain how you came to your answer:
-Two bums are sitting on a stoop next to a liquor store asking you for money to buy medicine
what would you do?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I will throw you a bone in the form of a question, please explain how you came to your answer:
-Two bums are sitting on a stoop next to a liquor store asking you for money to buy medicine
what would you do?

What does that have to do with what was asked of you? Why can't you answer a few simple questions?

 

[Mister Silver]

Whether through religious teachings or just plain laziness how do people justify being willful parasites on society and do you think they deserve any charity/help or should they just get a job and earn their daily bread just like the rest of us? I have no problem helping those in actual need, most everyone hits hard times at some point and as long as a person is actually taking steps to fix their situation I don't mind giving a hand up once in a while, now on the other hand a willful bum whose life plan is to leach off the fruits of others labour I have no sympathy for and they can die in the gutter for all I care if that is what it comes to, so it is a no for me.

Most bums I meet don't depend on much of anything except some money for alcohol. They aren't leaching the system in any way, because they're still sleeping in the streets rather than going to homeless shelters.