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Do You Agree?

Bird123

Well-Known Member
So your deity has no name? What objective evidence can you demonstrate this deity exists?

It's your claim and belief, it is for you to support it.

Say we are walking in the desert. It is hot, dry, and you are out of water. We bump into each other and you want to know where you can find water. I say: walk 5 miles west and there is an oasis with plenty of water. You say: It's your claim and belief, it is for you to support it. I say fine. Go thirsty.

God places knowledge and truth around us all. I copy God when I place truth in the world. If you believing was important to me, I'd have to work at convincing you. Since I want you to know and Discover the truth for yourself, I point the direction by which you can Discover for yourself. You will acquire wisdom and knowledge along the journey to Discover the answers for yourself.

Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. I copy God when I want you to acquire great wisdom and knowledge for yourself rather than have all the answers served up on a silver platter so you can value what I do not want you to value:::BELIEFS!!!

God doesn't have to be a BELIEF!! On the other hand, the journey to Discover anything takes work. My My.

It has always been in your hands, not mine. God hides nothing. Free choice is an important part of God's system. Feel free to seek what you will or not seek what you will. I make no demands. I merely point. Those who are truly ready will see where I am pointing.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Are you suggesting he got the money from the "government? "
Are you suggesting that the "government" ordered for the police to "basically protect the shooter and the massacre?"

At this point it looks very much so. But, I think this should be investigated properly before any judgments. If it was by government, or part of it, I don't believe it will be investigated properly.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
The shame is that police officers are being killed by criminals -- they are also being sued and sometimes put in jail when a jury says they didn't do their job right. Are you able to be a cop? Maybe you can protect innocent ones, or are you too old perhaps?

None of that is the fault of elementary school kids. I am not a cop. I work sometimes in security. If I'm ever in that situation and I get a weapon and a few men I will go in. The kids deserve their chance.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
People have said these things. We know this. What's new.... anything? AR47 or AR-15?


What's your source?

The report from the Texas Gov

Seems to me, there is a lot of fake news floating around. Maybe people have an agenda.
With Her Police Officer Husband In Final Moments, Judge Says
Uvalde County judge Bill Mitchell said officials had briefed them about some of the final moments that slain teacher Eva Mireles shared with her husband Ruben Ruiz, a police officer who was outside the school when she died.

Yet, we hear she died in the ambulance.

You are sourcing oxygen.com? She died in th eambulance.

If I assumed correctly, that plan failed.
The doors were locked. Someone talked about shooting the door... again, I assume the reason they discarded that idea... They are in a corridor, with a team of officers, and we know what bullets do when they hit metal, or steel.
We know what bullets do, when they hit wood too. Children are inside.

The officers then wait for the keys.
It took about 40 minutes to get the correct key. Was that the cops' fault? You decide.

By that time, the large shield arrived - "rifle rated". I could tell the difference. It was heavy.
When they finally got the right key for the door, they went in. There was a lot of gunfire - more than 20 shots fired.
They got the guy.
I would not say these cops stood around doing nothing.

What was sickening to me too, is to realize that the CNN cast, looking for something to criticize, zeroed in on a cop sanitizing his hands 10 minutes after the tactical team went to the door of the classroom.
What was the man supposed to do... Go up to the door and yell, "Open Sesame"?

They really went overboard in their condemnation.
Which brings me to the other lie circulating in the media.

We hear that police waited around, and failed to stop the massacre.
Yet, when the cops arrived, the massacre was over.

The gunman mowed down the classrooms in just 3 minutes.
The cops arrived just before he fired the last 100 rounds.

One girl said, "...he walked around the class, shooting everyone in sight.
She said the gunman then went to the connected room next door and continued shooting.

No, the door wasn't locked. They thought it was locked. The plan didn't fail, they didn't make a plan.

Drastic measure huh. I wonder what those are.

I am glad no cops were hurt, (just a minor injury of the officer who hit his head, or was hit on the head with something) or killed.
I commend their efforts, and understand their fears.
I see the dangers they face, and the measures they take to continue they work.


They took no measures except to stand around and wait for someone else.

A ballistic shield is not always recognized as a necessity until it is too late and an active shooter situation has occurred
“Departments are calling for ballistic shields because their patrol officers are often the first people that might have to handle an active-shooter situation. They should have something to protect themselves further other than a vest,” Thomas said.

If more police are killed in the line of duty, sooner or later, there would be no policemen, as they would all be either dead, resigned, or not available... and none of the critics, here, or anywhere else will say, "Okay. I'll take on the bad guys."

I'm also glad to hear that of the 15 injured, 12 or 13 will likely live.

Strawman. This is about 1 school shooting. When the full story comes out we will know exactly what the gumman was doing all that time and why he didn't execute the remaining children? So when or if it happens again now the gunman knows if he has a powerful rifle he can hang out in the class indefinitely?
If a line of several police went in with rifles and the door was locked they would retreat. If they gained entry they would spread out and if they had a shot they would take it. They know how to enter a room and spread out.


Speak for yourself.
You cannot speak for the children out there.


:shrug: - yes exactly, shrug. Then why are you bringing it up? Take your own advice, speak for yourself?

How would you know that?
Even people who are blinded mentally, by demons do not even know they are saying what they do not know. So, how would you know?

Because there is no evidence that people are blinded by demons and there is no evidence of demons. There is however evidence of mental illness of many types and actual illness of the brain which causes strange sometimes violent behavior. Like the school sniper in the 1960s who was posessed. Oh and had a brain illness. You are adding reasons onto things that we already know has causes. Those are the reasons people used BEFORE we knew about those things. You can drop them now.

I quoted no ancient fiction.
Why do you constantly say what you believe as though it is actually factual? Do you imagine yourself as some god sitting outside the realms of the universe?

Because it is a fact that billions of people believe things that are fiction. It is a fact there is zero good evidence for anything supernatural. It is a fact that all those things exist so far only in books.
If you are Christian than you don't believe other religions are true. Christianity is 1/3 of all religious believers. So according to your worldview more people believe in fiction than real theology. This lends well to the idea that people can be completely fooled into thinking fiction is real. It's not only possible but it's the majority.
Since no religion has evidence except that the stories are taken from older religions it is extremely likely that it's all fiction.
I imagine myself as a person who actually cares about what is true and bothers to gain knowledge of all points of view. The supernatural points are always crank.

There we go. That's what you believe. It's not true because you believe it.
Knock knock. Any of that registered?

Actually it has nothing to do with me. I don't even try to have a belief. I allow experts to demonstrate to me what is probable. Besides that there is actually no evidence for any gods, demigods or anything supernatural, scholarship has shown Mark is the source.

Summed up by Robert H. Stein’s The Synoptic Problem: An Introduction
The Synoptic Problem | Bible.org, several strong arguments


Then another scholar took it further - The Case Against Q: A Synoptic Problem Web Site by Mark Goodacre and mostly closed the book on this question. I'm open to any new studies but he's pretty tight on this.

Great! I hope you know why.
This cop should know better. Does he think he is on a movie set? He could have been injured, or worst.

But people bleeding out died. Although trained professionals could have made it worse, they also could have killed the gunman and got people to medical attention immediately.

About 20 minutes before the cops with shields arrived.

Some died later. And all of the kids sat in sheer terror thinking they could be executed any second for over 1 hour while looking at wartime injuries. This can mentally destroy an adult for life. But a child?
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
If I assumed correctly, that plan failed.
The doors were locked. Someone talked about shooting the door... again, I assume the reason they discarded that idea... They are in a corridor, with a team of officers, and we know what bullets do when they hit metal, or steel.
We know what bullets do, when they hit wood too. Children are inside.

The officers then wait for the keys.
It took about 40 minutes to get the correct key. Was that the cops' fault? You decide.

By that time, the large shield arrived - "rifle rated". I could tell the difference. It was heavy.
When they finally got the right key for the door, they went in. There was a lot of gunfire - more than 20 shots fired.
They got the guy.
I would not say these cops stood around doing nothing.

What was sickening to me too, is to realize that the CNN cast, looking for something to criticize, zeroed in on a cop sanitizing his hands 10 minutes after the tactical team went to the door of the classroom.
What was the man supposed to do... Go up to the door and yell, "Open Sesame"?

They really went overboard in their condemnation.
Which brings me to the other lie circulating in the media.

We hear that police waited around, and failed to stop the massacre.
Yet, when the cops arrived, the massacre was over.

The gunman mowed down the classrooms in just 3 minutes.
The cops arrived just before he fired the last 100 rounds.

One girl said, "...he walked around the class, shooting everyone in sight.
She said the gunman then went to the connected room next door and continued shooting.

No, the door wasn't locked. They thought it was locked. The plan didn't fail, they didn't make a plan.

Drastic measure huh. I wonder what those are.

I am glad no cops were hurt, (just a minor injury of the officer who hit his head, or was hit on the head with something) or killed.
I commend their efforts, and understand their fears.
I see the dangers they face, and the measures they take to continue they work.


They took no measures except to stand around and wait for someone else.




Great! I hope you know why.
This cop should know better. Does he think he is on a movie set? He could have been injured, or worst.

But people bleeding out died. Although trained professionals could have made it worse, they also could have killed the gunman and got people to medical attention immediately.

Didn't look that way to me, but if you consider it 'standing around'....what did you want them to do. I hope you didn't want them to shoot up the place.

You enter in a line spreading out after a flash bang, some roll low some high and everyone looks for a shot on the target without hitting a civilian.

The "kids" acted wisely, with thinking ability. They played dead when the gunman started shooting.
They could have charged at the gunman, and said.... "To the rescue. Here I come". .. but they weren't stupid (not saying the woman was stupid, just that her emotional reaction caused her to take action she later realized... hopefully, was stupid).

Even one girl was sensible enough to keep her mouth shut... and she didn't get shot.
She said, "He shot the girl next to me, and she said, ‘I’ve been shot!’ And, I didn’t want to say anything because I didn’t want him to come over and shoot me. So, I stayed quiet. He came back and shot her again because she wouldn’t be quiet."

That is disgusting. Hey police get your a$$ in that room and shoot that guy???????????????


I didn't say that. You can read, I'm sure? So please read what I said, instead of claiming your ideas came from me.

You don't believe the Greek/Christian afterlife is a happy place?

Wow.
I really hope billions of people do not act on emotional responses that override thinking ability.
I hope they go play Lemmings instead, and have the sense to understand, it's just a game.

The Lemmings were standing around. She got her kids out and went home? Do you think for one second she regrets that? She doesn't. What is she held back and the shooter made a run to the next building and shot up another classroom? She did the right thing. You don't seem to get that this is being considered a complete mess up. Now, on top of that you think while police are standing around with their heads up their butt (due to reasons outlined in the link) parents cannot run into a different building and get their children? That is exact mass mentality that gets people killed? In every disaster people will stand around and wait to be told what to do when they should be taking action. Running away, fighting, getting your kids. She would rather die that see her children die and live with that. SO if the gunman was coming to that room she would rather take the chance at beating him and getting the kids than to face the death of 2 children. It's her choice.
Alex Holold climbed that ridiculous cliff without a rope and he's a hero and a woman saves her kids and you find fault in it? Don't agree there.
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
People have said these things. We know this. What's new.... anything? AR47 or AR-15?


What's your source?

What we know about the Uvalde victims who were hospitalized
Of those 17 [survivors who were injured], six remained hospitalized as of Monday, including one in serious condition, one in fair condition and three in good
condition. The sixth patient‘s condition is unclear.
The Uvalde Memorial Hospital said it treated 15 patients in the aftermath of the shooting — 11 children and four adults — while two additional children that arrived at the hospital were declared dead on arrival.

Seems to me, there is a lot of fake news floating around. Maybe people have an agenda.
With Her Police Officer Husband In Final Moments, Judge Says
Uvalde County judge Bill Mitchell said officials had briefed them about some of the final moments that slain teacher Eva Mireles shared with her husband Ruben Ruiz, a police officer who was outside the school when she died.

Yet, we hear she died in the ambulance.


I just watched the unedited video of the whole thing, from start to finish, and I am glad I did, although it left me feeling sick to my stomach - sick to my stomach at those calling for the badge, and blood of those officers.

I sat and watched those men go toward gunfire from an automatic rifle. One officer was ready to take on the gunman, but the guy had no backup from his colleagues. He had no protection but his vest, which couldn't save him from a barrage of bullets from the gunman's rifle.
They definitely were not a tactical team.
He even injured himself moving away as bullets ricocheted off the wall.

I sat and watched officers train their rifles at the door, and I can imagine what could have been going through their mind... "What if a child runs through that door? What if that happens and I pull the trigger? What if I hesitate, and the gunman appears... shooting? What if...
The adrenaline must have gone into overdrive.

I did see them use ways to distract the gunman.
They planned... of course, and stationed men with rifles at the windows, just before the team in the corridors donned their gas masks, armed themselves with canisters, and non-"rifle rated" shields, and moved toward the door... after a volley of shots, which I assume was the distraction from the men at the windows.

If I assumed correctly, that plan failed.
The doors were locked. Someone talked about shooting the door... again, I assume the reason they discarded that idea... They are in a corridor, with a team of officers, and we know what bullets do when they hit metal, or steel.
We know what bullets do, when they hit wood too. Children are inside.

The officers then wait for the keys.
It took about 40 minutes to get the correct key. Was that the cops' fault? You decide.

By that time, the large shield arrived - "rifle rated". I could tell the difference. It was heavy.
When they finally got the right key for the door, they went in. There was a lot of gunfire - more than 20 shots fired.
They got the guy.
I would not say these cops stood around doing nothing.

What was sickening to me too, is to realize that the CNN cast, looking for something to criticize, zeroed in on a cop sanitizing his hands 10 minutes after the tactical team went to the door of the classroom.
What was the man supposed to do... Go up to the door and yell, "Open Sesame"?

They really went overboard in their condemnation.
Which brings me to the other lie circulating in the media.

We hear that police waited around, and failed to stop the massacre.
Yet, when the cops arrived, the massacre was over.

The gunman mowed down the classrooms in just 3 minutes.
The cops arrived just before he fired the last 100 rounds.

One girl said, "...he walked around the class, shooting everyone in sight.
She said the gunman then went to the connected room next door and continued shooting.



Drastic measure huh. I wonder what those are.

I am glad no cops were hurt, (just a minor injury of the officer who hit his head, or was hit on the head with something) or killed.
I commend their efforts, and understand their fears.
I see the dangers they face, and the measures they take to continue they work.

law_enforcement_euipment_and_special_purpose_clothing.jpg

Ballistic shields: A 'must have' for street patrol
A ballistic shield is not always recognized as a necessity until it is too late and an active shooter situation has occurred

“Departments are calling for ballistic shields because their patrol officers are often the first people that might have to handle an active-shooter situation. They should have something to protect themselves further other than a vest,” Thomas said.

If more police are killed in the line of duty, sooner or later, there would be no policemen, as they would all be either dead, resigned, or not available... and none of the critics, here, or anywhere else will say, "Okay. I'll take on the bad guys."

I'm also glad to hear that of the 15 injured, 12 or 13 will likely live.


Speak for yourself.
You cannot speak for the children out there.


:shrug:


How would you know that?
Even people who are blinded mentally, by demons do not even know they are saying what they do not know. So, how would you know?


I quoted no ancient fiction.
Why do you constantly say what you believe as though it is actually factual? Do you imagine yourself as some god sitting outside the realms of the universe?


There we go. That's what you believe. It's not true because you believe it.
Knock knock. Any of that registered?


Great! I hope you know why.
This cop should know better. Does he think he is on a movie set? He could have been injured, or worst.


About 20 minutes before the cops with shields arrived.


Didn't look that way to me, but if you consider it 'standing around'....what did you want them to do. I hope you didn't want them to shoot up the place.



The "kids" acted wisely, with thinking ability. They played dead when the gunman started shooting.
They could have charged at the gunman, and said.... "To the rescue. Here I come". .. but they weren't stupid (not saying the woman was stupid, just that her emotional reaction caused her to take action she later realized... hopefully, was stupid).

Even one girl was sensible enough to keep her mouth shut... and she didn't get shot.
She said, "He shot the girl next to me, and she said, ‘I’ve been shot!’ And, I didn’t want to say anything because I didn’t want him to come over and shoot me. So, I stayed quiet. He came back and shot her again because she wouldn’t be quiet."


I didn't say that. You can read, I'm sure? So please read what I said, instead of claiming your ideas came from me.


Wow.
I really hope billions of people do not act on emotional responses that override thinking ability.
I hope they go play Lemmings instead, and have the sense to understand, it's just a game.

tenor.gif
You seem to have a lot of empathy and sympathy for these police officers having to do their jobs that they signed up for and how tough it must have been for them. I do too, but that is what they signed up for.
What I'm thinking about in all this is all those poor kids and teachers, at the mercy of a crazed gunman, none of whom signed up for any of it, and how heartbreakingly awful and traumatic it must have been for them to watch their teachers and classmates having their heads blown off right in front of them. I'm thinking about the poor child who smeared her dead friend's blood all over herself in an attempt to make herself appear dead so the gunman wouldn't shoot her too. I'm thinking about those poor children desperately trying to call their parents, anyone for help, and never getting it. Even though help was right outside their door. I'm thinking of the mother who broke through police lines that were trying to hold her back, who charged into the school to save her kids and ended up saving a classroom full of kids. If she somehow managed to do that, then the police surely could have done much, much more. And I'm wondering why, after how many mass shootings across the country, this police force was so apparently incompetent and useless when they were presented with a live shooter. They should be better trained than this by now. I mean, how many mass shootings is it going to take until people can get it together??
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
At this point it looks very much so. But, I think this should be investigated properly before any judgments. If it was by government, or part of it, I don't believe it will be investigated properly.
How do you figure? How does it "very much so" look like the government funded the Uvalde shooter? Where's the evidence of that?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
No, the door wasn't locked. They thought it was locked. The plan didn't fail, they didn't make a plan.
No one tried the door for 40 minutes? Source?

But people bleeding out died. Although trained professionals could have made it worse, they also could have killed the gunman and got people to medical attention immediately.
Or be killed trying. Or be shot at, trying, and not gotten at the gunman.... without the "rifle rated" shield. Or...

You enter in a line spreading out after a flash bang, some roll low some high and everyone looks for a shot on the target without hitting a civilian.
Sounds good. Seen it in movies. Real life... Maybe, these guys weren't there... I don't know.
A video game simulation won't tell us how it would play out.

You don't believe the Greek/Christian afterlife is a happy place?
I never read about that in the Bible.

The Lemmings were standing around. She got her kids out and went home? Do you think for one second she regrets that? She doesn't. What is she held back and the shooter made a run to the next building and shot up another classroom? She did the right thing. You don't seem to get that this is being considered a complete mess up. Now, on top of that you think while police are standing around with their heads up their butt (due to reasons outlined in the link) parents cannot run into a different building and get their children? That is exact mass mentality that gets people killed? In every disaster people will stand around and wait to be told what to do when they should be taking action. Running away, fighting, getting your kids. She would rather die that see her children die and live with that. SO if the gunman was coming to that room she would rather take the chance at beating him and getting the kids than to face the death of 2 children. It's her choice.
Alex Holold climbed that ridiculous cliff without a rope and he's a hero and a woman saves her kids and you find fault in it? Don't agree there.
I was talking about running into the room with the gunman.
Her children were in another room? :dizzy::facepalm: Why did you bring it up then?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
You seem to have a lot of empathy and sympathy for these police officers having to do their jobs that they signed up for and how tough it must have been for them. I do too, but that is what they signed up for.

What I'm thinking about in all this is all those poor kids and teachers, at the mercy of a crazed gunman, none of whom signed up for any of it, and how heartbreakingly awful and traumatic it must have been for them to watch their teachers and classmates having their heads blown off right in front of them. I'm thinking about the poor child who smeared her dead friend's blood all over herself in an attempt to make herself appear dead so the gunman wouldn't shoot her too. I'm thinking about those poor children desperately trying to call their parents, anyone for help, and never getting it. Even though help was right outside their door. I'm thinking of the mother who broke through police lines that were trying to hold her back, who charged into the school to save her kids and ended up saving a classroom full of kids. If she somehow managed to do that, then the police surely could have done much, much more.
I understand your feelings, and I certainly have not ignored any of those things you mentioned... except perhaps a few things, which I don't think you got right.

The police could not stop those poor kids from getting their "heads blown off".
You see, the police were not there, when those poor kids got their "heads blown off".

I cannot blame the cops for that.
Why are schools still vulnerable after the same thing has been played out, over and over again?
Why haven't they spent some money to secure every school?

I couldn't even sneak into my school for being late, as there was a guard at the gate. So I made sure I was early, so I didn't get "detention".

True, one could scale the fence, which he did, but he had to go through the main door.
By the way, my schools fence was about 9 feet tall. To scale it, I would have to do a Spiderman.

I can't walk into certain buildings without being let in by the person controlling the lock.
I'm talking about small little buildings, no bigger than 15 feet.

I can't even get past the guard sitting behind a desk, when I go to certain buildings.
How can the cops be blamed for avoidable situations that make their jobs more difficult?

That woman - "the hero", that "saved" a classroom is being used as a prop for people with an agenda.
The gunman could not even go into the hallway to enter another classroom. Why?
Because of the police who were in the hallway with their guns trained on the door he had to exit.
His only way out, in one piece, would have to be a window.

And I'm wondering why, after how many mass shootings across the country, this police force was so apparently incompetent and useless when they were presented with a live shooter. They should be better trained than this by now. I mean, how many mass shootings is it going to take until people can get it together??
All I hear is a lot of talk about the police, and what they could do.
Talk is cheap. That's all I will say on that.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I understand your feelings, and I certainly have not ignored any of those things you mentioned... except perhaps a few things, which I don't think you got right.

The police could not stop those poor kids from getting their "heads blown off".
You see, the police were not there, when those poor kids got their "heads blown off".

I cannot blame the cops for that.
Why are schools still vulnerable after the same thing has been played out, over and over again?
Why haven't they spent some money to secure every school?

I couldn't even sneak into my school for being late, as there was a guard at the gate. So I made sure I was early, so I didn't get "detention".

True, one could scale the fence, which he did, but he had to go through the main door.
By the way, my schools fence was about 9 feet tall. To scale it, I would have to do a Spiderman.

I can't walk into certain buildings without being let in by the person controlling the lock.
I'm talking about small little buildings, no bigger than 15 feet.

I can't even get past the guard sitting behind a desk, when I go to certain buildings.
How can the cops be blamed for avoidable situations that make their jobs more difficult?
I can certainly blame people for not doing their jobs. Especially when those jobs are this important.

That woman - "the hero", that "saved" a classroom is being used as a prop for people with an agenda.

What agenda? The agenda that people paid to protect us should save kids' lives and not just stand around? I'm on board with that "agenda."

If that mother was able to run in there and save a class of kids, then there is no excuse at all for the police not doing the same. The major difference seems to be that the mother actually cared about her kids more than she cared about herself. How do we get police to care more about saving kids lives than their own?

The gunman could not even go into the hallway to enter another classroom. Why?
Because of the police who were in the hallway with their guns trained on the door he had to exit.
His only way out, in one piece, would have to be a window.
So the police were in the hallway doing nothing. Great help that was, eh?

All I hear is a lot of talk about the police, and what they could do.
Talk is cheap. That's all I will say on that.
Yes, talk is cheap.
Action - like the police doing their jobs - is not cheap.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
None of that is the fault of elementary school kids. I am not a cop. I work sometimes in security. If I'm ever in that situation and I get a weapon and a few men I will go in. The kids deserve their chance.
Definitely not disagreeing with you -- but! and the chance is there -- what happens if a kid gets in the way of the cop's shooting? Or what happens if the criminal sees the cops entering and grabs a kid in front of him and the cops shoot? I mean, anything can happen. I understand how you think, but still -- I have a feeling nothing like this ever happened in that town before -- and again -- the possibilities of police shooting kids or more kids shot by the criminal are definitely there. It is sad, very sad that this happened but! again -- the U.S. has a policy of freedom of guns --
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I understand your feelings, and I certainly have not ignored any of those things you mentioned... except perhaps a few things, which I don't think you got right.

The police could not stop those poor kids from getting their "heads blown off".
You see, the police were not there, when those poor kids got their "heads blown off".

I cannot blame the cops for that.
Why are schools still vulnerable after the same thing has been played out, over and over again?
Why haven't they spent some money to secure every school?

I couldn't even sneak into my school for being late, as there was a guard at the gate. So I made sure I was early, so I didn't get "detention".

True, one could scale the fence, which he did, but he had to go through the main door.
By the way, my schools fence was about 9 feet tall. To scale it, I would have to do a Spiderman.

I can't walk into certain buildings without being let in by the person controlling the lock.
I'm talking about small little buildings, no bigger than 15 feet.

I can't even get past the guard sitting behind a desk, when I go to certain buildings.
How can the cops be blamed for avoidable situations that make their jobs more difficult?

That woman - "the hero", that "saved" a classroom is being used as a prop for people with an agenda.
The gunman could not even go into the hallway to enter another classroom. Why?
Because of the police who were in the hallway with their guns trained on the door he had to exit.
His only way out, in one piece, would have to be a window.


All I hear is a lot of talk about the police, and what they could do.
Talk is cheap. That's all I will say on that.
If teachers are called upon to have a gun handy, I think more teachers than ever will quit. Because there is such a shortage of teachers in my area, there is a call for non-degreed people to fill the role. Can you image? And the sad thing is about schooling, many, many parents have to go to work or really don't want to take care of their kids at home, or are incapable. Sad sad very sad to the point of horrific. I went to public school, both my parents worked, the 'bad kids' were usually those that skipped school, but nothing worse than that happened insofar as I know. That was quite some time ago though.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I understand your feelings, and I certainly have not ignored any of those things you mentioned... except perhaps a few things, which I don't think you got right.

The police could not stop those poor kids from getting their "heads blown off".
You see, the police were not there, when those poor kids got their "heads blown off".

I cannot blame the cops for that.
Why are schools still vulnerable after the same thing has been played out, over and over again?
Why haven't they spent some money to secure every school?

I couldn't even sneak into my school for being late, as there was a guard at the gate. So I made sure I was early, so I didn't get "detention".

True, one could scale the fence, which he did, but he had to go through the main door.
By the way, my schools fence was about 9 feet tall. To scale it, I would have to do a Spiderman.

I can't walk into certain buildings without being let in by the person controlling the lock.
I'm talking about small little buildings, no bigger than 15 feet.

I can't even get past the guard sitting behind a desk, when I go to certain buildings.
How can the cops be blamed for avoidable situations that make their jobs more difficult?

That woman - "the hero", that "saved" a classroom is being used as a prop for people with an agenda.
The gunman could not even go into the hallway to enter another classroom. Why?
Because of the police who were in the hallway with their guns trained on the door he had to exit.
His only way out, in one piece, would have to be a window.


All I hear is a lot of talk about the police, and what they could do.
Talk is cheap. That's all I will say on that.
Indeed.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
At this point it looks very much so. But, I think this should be investigated properly before any judgments. If it was by government, or part of it, I don't believe it will be investigated properly.
Whether you realize it or not, that is one reason why Jesus taught his disciples to pray what is often known as the "Our Father" prayer..."Let your (thy) KINGDOM COME..." He didn't mean only over Israel. Think about what that means.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
No one tried the door for 40 minutes? Source?


Or be killed trying. Or be shot at, trying, and not gotten at the gunman.... without the "rifle rated" shield. Or...


Sounds good. Seen it in movies. Real life... Maybe, these guys weren't there... I don't know.
A video game simulation won't tell us how it would play out.

You need some real life then.

Forget my opinion.

Tim Kennedy and 2 other military/police podcast. Kennedy served many tours in Afghanistan, special forces, after retirement he helped get Americans out during the pullout (as a civilian contractor) and has also rescued a FOX reporter in Ukraine. He is an actual hero.

Here he is helping Americans who were left behind in Afghanistan

Tim Kennedy on Instagram: "Some of the highs and lows of 2021. This year was an emotional roller coaster. From TV shows, magazine covers, and finishing my first book, to the heartbreak of the Afghanistan evacuation, and blowing my knee out. This has been a ride. I run hard in the paint and 2022 is not going to be any different. #newyear #newyearseve #newyears"


He crawled through sewers and faced snipers to help innocent people. He has pulled bodies out of exploded vehicles just to have the body to bury while under ambush.


He started a podcast and they go over the response at the shooting. The times are given.




49:00 commentary on first police entry


1:00:28 text from Navy Seal,


They completely agree that the responsibility of the responders was immediate and quick violence. They would rather see 40 funerals of first responders than 1 innocent child. These people are the experts in tactical response.
You meet violence with quick, brutal, organized and precise response. Or they will continue the violence.

The greatest thing one can do is give their life for an innocent is the opinion of these men.








I never read about that in the Bible.

Revelation - 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



I was talking about running into the room with the gunman.


Her children were in another room? :dizzy::facepalm: Why did you bring it up then?

She didn't know where the gunman was. She didn't know how many gunmen there were.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Definitely not disagreeing with you -- but! and the chance is there -- what happens if a kid gets in the way of the cop's shooting? Or what happens if the criminal sees the cops entering and grabs a kid in front of him and the cops shoot? I mean, anything can happen. I understand how you think, but still -- I have a feeling nothing like this ever happened in that town before -- and again -- the possibilities of police shooting kids or more kids shot by the criminal are definitely there. It is sad, very sad that this happened but! again -- the U.S. has a policy of freedom of guns --

There was excellent, free tactical training for officers 90 min from that town.

It can be done without killing innocents, it has been done
. 49:00
 
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