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Do you believe in a literal devil?
- Thread starter The Sum of Awe
- Start date
I fully understand what you wrote.
Genesis 9:5 King James Version
And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
The Egyptian priests had an ambivalent relationship with blood. On one hand, blood was seen as an essential component in religious rituals, especially in sacrificial rituals where it was offered to the gods. This type of use was considered purifying and vital for maintaining the harmony of the universe.
On the other hand, blood outside of ritualistic contexts, especially in large quantities, was seen as impure and potentially dangerous. The Egyptians believed that the physical body was a reflection of the spiritual body and that physical integrity was crucial for the afterlife. Bloodshed outside of rituals could disrupt the cosmic order (maat) and bring spiritual and physical imbalance.
Additionally, blood had negative connotations related to violence and death. Its red color, associated with the god Seth and destructive forces like Apep, the serpent god of chaos, contributed to this negative perception. Therefore, while blood had its role in specific religious ceremonies, its shedding outside of these contexts was seen as something to be avoided and often feared.
Narmer Macehead
Ancient warrior priests, including those in Africa, frequently used maceheads to inflict blunt force injuries without causing bleeding. This method of combat was preferred because bloodshed outside of sacred rituals was considered impure. The mace, with its heavy and often ornate head, was an effective weapon for breaking bones and causing severe bruises, preserving the physical integrity of the body and avoiding the desecration caused by spilled blood.
This procedure not only met religious and spiritual needs but also perpetuated through various cultures and millennia. The use of blunt weapons reflects a profound understanding of the spiritual and social norms of the time, where blood was reserved for sacred rituals, and any other forms of shedding were seen as threats to the cosmic and spiritual order. The preference for maces and similar weapons can be found in various traditions of priestly warriors throughout history, underscoring the importance of maintaining ritual purity even in contexts of war and conflict.
In all ancient engravings, kings and priests are portrayed as larger figures.
What I wrote doesn't prove anything; however, I hope you understand.
JACC2312
Member
Yes the devil, Satan and many other deamons exist, they are Rebellious angels who challenged God, they live in another dimension, the Spiritual dimension and can interact with us here in the material dimension. Their existence is proof of the fact that God doesn't have an army of slaves but that he gives his Creatures the Chose to love him or to defect him, Pride is the key to disobedience, to feel that One is owned by no one that We exist by our own merits and that we ar due to nobody and thus nobody deserves our allegiance. The demons wisper to our ears the temptation to fall into sin and thus join them in the hell that is empty of love and grace.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
As a former Christian, I no longer believe in the devil or demons.
A Baha'i member once inspired me to reexamine my former Christian beliefs about Satan and demons, which led me to completely reject these beliefs. I find it ironic that this initially occurred in a thread where the OP, a devout Christian, persistently claimed to have evidence for the existence of demons.
A Baha'i member once inspired me to reexamine my former Christian beliefs about Satan and demons, which led me to completely reject these beliefs. I find it ironic that this initially occurred in a thread where the OP, a devout Christian, persistently claimed to have evidence for the existence of demons.
Why should I write these things? There are naming issues, and many terms can be confusing... I could have used any other set of sacred writings, but I find it more convenient to use the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian ones. So, it's important to understand that the first Adam in Chapter 1 of the book of Genesis in the Hebrew Scriptures is 'physical-evolutionary' over ages (evolutionary), while the second Adam is metaphysical! What is written about the second Adam in these scriptures? That he had religious duties, not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and had the mission to 'serve' and 'guard' the Garden of Eden (Gen 2:15), among other things. In summary, Adam was a true son of God, without defined father and mother, the first King-Priest of humanity. Cain was Adam's first son, his firstborn, and primogeniture is a universal concept in antiquity. He was Adam's favorite, but when this king-priest became like an Elohim (Gen 3:22), for failing in his mission by allowing Eve to debate theology with the 'serpent' and fall into transgression, his children as pre-priests would offer 'offerings' to God. Cain followed the rules (Gen 3:17), offering his cursed land produce. Abel tried to evade the curse, offering the firstborn of his sheep, and what happened? Cain spilled Abel's blood on the ground, and the earth was cursed twice (Gen 4:12; Gen 5:29). Priests are not allowed to shed blood outside of ritual sacrifice (John 18:31 reference researched in context). So, Jesus says, 'You are of your father the devil' (John 8:44). 'Devil' is a Greek term, and Jesus was not only referring to the Jewish Pharisees... but that's for each to discover who the 'devil' is.
On what basis do you equate Satan with the devil?
Elliott
Member
I have no basis. So far as i know, the titles of Devil and Lucifer are exclusively Christian in origin. It just seems as though these names are interchangeable with Satan. Now that you brought it to my attention, perhaps i have been mistaken about this.
Pancho Frijoles
Member
Hi, Sgt Pepper
I'm a Baha'i and yes, we don't believe that the devil is an independent being, but a representation or symbol of the role we play when we oppose or interfere with God's will.
This goes in line with the original meaning of "Satan" in the Hebraic Bible, which is something of somebody that "gets in the way".
Jesus called Peter "Satan" when he tried to interfere with God's plan.
The belief in good and evil spirits (or good and evil demi-gods) in ancient across some cultures.
In Mazdeism, evil became represented by Angra Mainyu. Influence of mazdeism on Judaism during the exile in Babylon could have accounted for a similar representation.
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Isabella Lecour
amor aeternus est
Not my god. But the divine postmaster must be frustrated with all the prayers sent in the Devil's direction as to which Devil gets' their due.
And the boogieman is sometimes god with a mask on meant to frighten us. Sometimes, it really is a bad one right in front of us. Sometimes, it's us...in total missbehavement.
The biggest issue I have with all of this, is that 100% anything is pretty rare, if not unknown to exist and the idea that there is a 100% evil being just doesn't feel real, or have the ring of truth to it. I think that has more to do with my conception of good and evil rather than the internal makeup of spiritual beings. I do think there is something somewhere in existence that I can agree is 100% evil but I haven't found it yet because even the black clouds, the dumpest day, the worst events can be that turning point towards good and brighter days. And maybe evil is really a personal thing than a universal and that includes the devils' too.
But golly, some of those beings are petty with a capital P and that's bad enough as it is.
So, I can't figure out which slot to vote for. All the above, none of the above and plenty of other.
And the boogieman is sometimes god with a mask on meant to frighten us. Sometimes, it really is a bad one right in front of us. Sometimes, it's us...in total missbehavement.
The biggest issue I have with all of this, is that 100% anything is pretty rare, if not unknown to exist and the idea that there is a 100% evil being just doesn't feel real, or have the ring of truth to it. I think that has more to do with my conception of good and evil rather than the internal makeup of spiritual beings. I do think there is something somewhere in existence that I can agree is 100% evil but I haven't found it yet because even the black clouds, the dumpest day, the worst events can be that turning point towards good and brighter days. And maybe evil is really a personal thing than a universal and that includes the devils' too.
But golly, some of those beings are petty with a capital P and that's bad enough as it is.
So, I can't figure out which slot to vote for. All the above, none of the above and plenty of other.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
That is one view. Those Jews who view Satan as a literal entity say that he is an angel who works for God, but just has a very nasty job to do.
However, an awful lot of religious Jews view Satan as a metaphor for our own Yetzer HaRa (inclination to evil).
"In Hebrew, the term Satan is usually translated as “opponent” or “adversary,” and he is often understood to represent the sinful impulse (in Hebrew, yetzer hara) or, more generally, the forces that prevents human beings from submitting to divine will. He is also sometimes regarded as a heavenly prosecutor or accuser, a view given expression in the Book of Job, where Satan encourages God to test his servant."
Do Jews Believe in Satan? | My Jewish Learning
You might be surprised to learn that Satan does appear in Jewish texts, but that doesn't mean that Satan is the Jewish devil.
www.myjewishlearning.com
Elliott
Member
I cannot comment on most of this; it may be true, i just haven't learned about it. All i can say is that what i was stating is not what i heard from other Jews, i learned it for myself inside. I would be happy to provide my sources if you wish.That is one view. Those Jews who view Satan as a literal entity say that he is an angel who works for God, but just has a very nasty job to do.
However, an awful lot of religious Jews view Satan as a metaphor for our own Yetzer HaRa (inclination to evil).
"In Hebrew, the term Satan is usually translated as “opponent” or “adversary,” and he is often understood to represent the sinful impulse (in Hebrew, yetzer hara) or, more generally, the forces that prevents human beings from submitting to divine will. He is also sometimes regarded as a heavenly prosecutor or accuser, a view given expression in the Book of Job, where Satan encourages God to test his servant."
Do Jews Believe in Satan? | My Jewish Learning
You might be surprised to learn that Satan does appear in Jewish texts, but that doesn't mean that Satan is the Jewish devil.
Arnaud1221
Member
It exist but it's like a ghost. The word are missing to describe this in my vocabulary. Also, The Devil is like a divinity and this, again, is for sure not the word.
No, not real, but rather the imagination of those who have be taught the devil role in religion.
That strikes me as more convenient than helpful. How, for example, does such a view enrich one's understanding of the Balaam story or, for that matter, the entire book of Job?
Tomef
Well-Known Member
A fictional character to A. act as an adversary and B. provide a way to explain evil/acts some people think of as evil (the devil made me do it!). Re. the latter, some religious people extend this to a dichotomy between body and ‘soul’, as in the body being evil in some sense, and the soul ‘pure’, according to what the particular religion considers pure to mean. The idea here by extension is that the devil is able to tempt the body and thus sully the soul. In terms of human thought, these ideas are precursors to attempts to understand human behaviour via psychology, neurology etc.
Every good story needs an Other.