Do you believe in evolution

[The Neo Nerd]

How about you expound your views here?
Others may not be so learned as you to see the gaping holes that you see.

As for me, of course it isn't a perfect metaphor, but it roughly fits enough to make a simple point. A simple point that will stand after you go to all sorts of lengths to smear it. But, I would really like to see you smear it anyway. So, please, don't hesitate.

What polyhedral said.

Except i don't think religion should be removed from society.

Religion plays a vital social cohesive role. This is in no way indicative of the truthfulness or factfulness (don't know if that is a real word or not but you get the picture). Not being a particularly socially oriented person i don't feel the need to subscribe to one of these religions. As someone once said "i'd love to have beliefs, but i have thoughts".

 

[Ubjon]

What polyhedral said.

Except i don't think religion should be removed from society.

Religion plays a vital social cohesive role. This is in no way indicative of the truthfulness or factfulness (don't know if that is a real word or not but you get the picture). Not being a particularly socially oriented person i don't feel the need to subscribe to one of these religions. As someone once said "i'd love to have beliefs, but i have thoughts".

Surely religion divides as much as it unites?

 

[painted wolf]

Surely religion divides as much as it unites?

So does any philosophy... look at politics and nationalism.

wa:do

 

[Ubjon]

So does any philosophy... look at politics and nationalism.

wa:do

Why I avoid subscribing to any particular political idealogy or nationalism

 

[Valjean]

Politics and nationalism tend to be deliberate strategies of propaganda and manipulation.
Of course, religion is often co-opted for the same purposes....

 

[fantome profane]

Just like we need our DNA, so too any societal body needs its DNA. That's what all of these creation accounts are about. It explains the unique coming to be of that particular kind of society. Thus, if you don't have a uniform account of creation, you don't have a functional societal body. Some cells pay more attention to the societal DNA than others. Ultimately, when the cells start to hold its DNA in derision because they don't understand it or because they are appalled by it, that is when the health of the societal body starts to decline and cancers start to spring up and eventually it becomes terminal. When the host organism of the cells dies, it's not hard to guess what fate shall soon overtake the cells.

There is something to what you are saying here, but I think you are trying to put this idea in a place where it does not belong. The works of Shakespeare also have an important place in our “cultural DNA”, but that does not mean students should be performing Hamlet in the middle of a chemistry class.

I think the creation stories in Genesis are wonderful, deep and rich. I have no objection at all to students learning about these things. I would say that a person needs some familiarity with this myth in order to be considered “culturally literate”. Adam and Eve, knowledge of good and evil, the tree of life, the serpent, the garden etc, people should all be aware of these mythological images. But that still does not mean these things have a place in the science class. Nor should this myth be mentioned as a possible alternative to science.

Creationism is not part of our “cultural DNA”. It is more like a cancer that must be removed.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

Unless you are a scientist in the field, does it really matter how it happened? I find this search for confirmation very puzzling. It happened. We're here. Why worry about how?

 

[fantome profane]

Unless you are a scientist in the field, does it really matter how it happened? I find this search for confirmation very puzzling. It happened. We're here. Why worry about how?

You don’t need to be a “scientist in the field” to take an interest in the world that you live in.

 

[outhouse]

Unless you are a scientist in the field, does it really matter how it happened? I find this search for confirmation very puzzling. It happened. We're here. Why worry about how?

its called reality, religion blocks this view.

you seem to want to sweep it under the rug because it doesnt conform to your liking.

 

[outhouse]

Creationism is not part of our “cultural DNA”. It is more like a cancer that must be removed.
__________________

that last sentence sums up why I joined this site.

I realize it is a cancer that drags humanity down.

it is amazing that there are still ignorant people so uneducated they still believe the world is 6000 years old due to this myth.

 

[kylixguru]

There is something to what you are saying here, but I think you are trying to put this idea in a place where it does not belong. The works of Shakespeare also have an important place in our “cultural DNA”, but that does not mean students should be performing Hamlet in the middle of a chemistry class.

I think the creation stories in Genesis are wonderful, deep and rich. I have no objection at all to students learning about these things. I would say that a person needs some familiarity with this myth in order to be considered “culturally literate”. Adam and Eve, knowledge of good and evil, the tree of life, the serpent, the garden etc, people should all be aware of these mythological images. But that still does not mean these things have a place in the science class. Nor should this myth be mentioned as a possible alternative to science.

Creationism is not part of our “cultural DNA”. It is more like a cancer that must be removed.

There is another thread going on about how this cancer can be removed that I would really like your opinion of. You seem to have good discernment in this area. You may even wind up ripping me to shreds and that would be ok too.

I was a bit clumsy in my points but I wonder if you would take some time and wade through this thread and see if you can capture what I was trying to say and then restate it in a way that perhaps others can understand. If you would, I'd be most grateful.

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...cientific-methods-reason-losing-americas.html

 

[strikeviperMKII]

You don’t need to be a “scientist in the field” to take an interest in the world that you live in.

No, you don't. But why then, if all you have is an interest, must your answer be scientifically consistent? Can it only be consistent with your observations? Or is there a need to be right interfering here?

 

[strikeviperMKII]

its called reality, religion blocks this view.

you seem to want to sweep it under the rug because it doesnt conform to your liking.

Aren't we jumping to conclusions here? I'm perfectly happy with evolution as it has been explained to me. Frankly, I have no idea why it matters to laypersons. We debate these subjects like our lives depended on us being right and them being wrong when really, it doesn't matter.

As for religion blocking reality, well, that is your perception. And it is part of the problem that I mentioned above.

 

[Commoner]

Aren't we jumping to conclusions here? I'm perfectly happy with evolution as it has been explained to me. Frankly, I have no idea why it matters to laypersons. We debate these subjects like our lives depended on us being right and them being wrong when really, it doesn't matter.

As for religion blocking reality, well, that is your perception. And it is part of the problem that I mentioned above.

It's not so much the particular issue that matters. Rejecting facts on the basis of one's religious beliefs - that's the issue - whether that happens with evolution, gravity or Obama being a lizzard-man in disguise. The quality of my life very much depends on whether or not I live in a society in which reality actually matters.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

It's not so much the particular issue that matters. Rejecting facts on the basis of one's religious beliefs - that's the issue - whether that happens with evolution, gravity or Obama being a lizzard-man in disguise. The quality of my life very much depends on whether or not I live in a society in which reality actually matters.

So you don't reject facts presented to you just because a particular religion says you should? Is that the extent of what you just said?

If so, I have to ask why. Beyond the obvious 'because religion is wrong' answer, please.

 

[Commoner]

So you don't reject facts presented to you just because a particular religion says you should? Is that the extent of what you just said?

If so, I have to ask why. Beyond the obvious 'because religion is wrong' answer, please.

Ahem...what? What exactly are you asking?

 

[strikeviperMKII]

Ahem...what? What exactly are you asking?

I am asking if you are just rejecting religion because you think it is wrong in terms of science. Is there some other reason? I'd be willing to bet there is. Probably more than one.

 

[Commoner]

I am asking if you are just rejecting religion because you think it is wrong in terms of science. Is there some other reason? I'd be willing to bet there is. Probably more than one.

I don't see what that has to do with what I said...

I reject "religions" on the same basis I reject claims of the existence of invisible pink unicorns - no such claims have been substantiated (yet). There's nothing more to it.

But regardless of the religios, political and philosophical beliefs you hold, those beliefs should be contingent upon facts, not the other way around. Does that seem unresonable to you?

 

[strikeviperMKII]

I don't see what that has to do with what I said...

I reject "religions" on the same basis I reject claims of the existence of invisible pink unicorns - no such claims have been substantiated (yet). There's nothing more to it.

But regardless of the religios, political and philosophical beliefs you hold, those beliefs should be contingent upon facts, not the other way around. Does that seem unresonable to you?

Not unreasonable, no. It's useless, though, at least in what we were discussing. Keep in mind that wherever you have fact, you also have fiction. One is not the ultimate good and the other the ultimate evil. You have learned to make fact your ally. Faith, religion, spirituality, whatever you want to call it, shows you how to make fiction your ally as well.

 

[outhouse]

Aren't we jumping to conclusions here? I'm perfectly happy with evolution as it has been explained to me. Frankly, I have no idea why it matters to laypersons. We debate these subjects like our lives depended on us being right and them being wrong when really, it doesn't matter.

As for religion blocking reality, well, that is your perception. And it is part of the problem that I mentioned above.

we are not jumping to conclusions

faith blinds reality and this forum has a wealth of blindness due to religion, this is a stone cold fact I wish was not reality.

you have a grip on reality bud, im not ripping on you. I just disagree with your opinion. Im glad you agree with evolution and have a good take on things.