Do you believe in the death penalty?

[YmirGF]

Reincarnation as a theory has better acceptance in psychiatry than before thanks to the works of Dr. Ian Stevenson, Dr. Brian Weiss and Dr. Michael Newton.

Ah, so the needle has moved from .00005% to .00006%
Break out the fricken champagne!

 

[Madhuri]

So you're advocating proactive justice like in the movie Minority Report?

I'd have to re-watch this movie to adequately respond to your question.

 

[savagewind]

I believe that people like @psychoslice who are strictly against the death penalty should be against every abortion too.

 

[Madhuri]

- I'm suggesting that "revenge" is your only valid reason. Can you defend that?

I think that my post presented good reasoning without any notion of revenge. I don't thin that revenge is a good reason. But I do believe in protecting society whilst also believing that life in prison is not a viable option.

So I have two arguments for the death penalty (in very specific circumstances):

1) Self-defense (protection of society)
2) Mercy (because death is favourable to life in a cage)

 

[Aupmanyav]

- only punitive and vengeful -

Punitive and vengeful are two different things. Punitive, after due consideration of the case - in India at the district level, then at the State level and lastly at the National level with due legal assistance to the criminal and according to law of the land cannot be termed as vengeful.

There are millions of cases (in India, at least) where criminals on parole have committed murders, rapes, robberies, abductions, etc. Thousands of cases where criminals have 50 cases against them. The law should not be lenient with the criminals otherwise the society suffers.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well really who cares about data, we are talking about human lives, for god sake.

Data is often how we can determine what is better for human lives. Such as, we have the data to know that "gay conversion 'therapy'" is very destructive, that there are more effective ways than others to help people safely overcome phobias, and we know from data that for most people behavioral modifications will work the best and go the longest in improving mood, social relationships, and overall psychological health. Because of data, we know the death penalty is more expensive, that it does not deter crime, and occasionally innocent people are put to death. This should highlight the human aspects of the issue and cause for alarm (especially over innocent people being wrongfully charged and put to death), not detract from it.

 

[savagewind]

Executed But Possibly Innocent | Death Penalty Information Center

After reading this, I feel like I should change my vote, but I think that the people who are murderous enemies of society and dangerous to their fellow inmates, should be executed, imo. I think that the system takes too long from conviction to execution. It is a bad system overall, but if it worked well, I would vote for it.

I think that Bible believers who understand the Bible literally* in places have to vote for the righteous concept of the death penalty or be found conflicting with God's will be done. Matthew 6:9-10

.......Because they trust that God will send Jesus as Executioner.

*Not me.

 

[Koldo]

Data is often how we can determine what is better for human lives. Such as, we have the data to know that "gay conversion 'therapy'" is very destructive, that there are more effective ways than others to help people safely overcome phobias, and we know from data that for most people behavioral modifications will work the best and go the longest in improving mood, social relationships, and overall psychological health. Because of data, we know the death penalty is more expensive, that it does not deter crime, and occasionally innocent people are put to death. This should highlight the human aspects of the issue and cause for alarm (especially over innocent people being wrongfully charged and put to death), not detract from it.

This is something that I have always found mind-boggling.
It can only mean one of two things. Either way too much money is being spent on death penalty procedures or way too little on life sentences.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you?

Hell no.

Once the perpetrator is reliably and securelybbehind bars, there's no justifiable reason to kill them.

The only exception I can't think of is a failing state that can't be sure that people will stay in prison once they're put there... but even in that case, I probably wouldn't trust the justice system of a country like that enough to let them execute people.

 

[savagewind]

If a person is convicted of more than one murder and he goes to prison for life, but he escapes and kills again you might feel different about not executing him. No? What if the person he kills is you, your partner or your child?

 

[Koldo]

Hell no.

Once the perpetrator is reliably and securelybbehind bars, there's no justifiable reason to kill them.

The only exception I can't think of is a failing state that can't be sure that people will stay in prison once they're put there... but even in that case, I probably wouldn't trust the justice system of a country like that enough to let them execute people.

At first sight this looks like a statement about facts, but it is actually an opinion since you are the one setting the bar as to what counts as 'justifiable'.

 

[metis]

Do you?

In a modern society that has jails and prisons, no.

I have difficulty understanding why some of those who consider themselves "pro-life" to be in favor of it, as if it's based on some sort of concept that people cannot change.

 

[suncowiam]

I'm going give this economy thing a crack again.

Let's assume there was no doubt on why a person is being imprisoned for life and for the act of murder.

Instead of sustaining this murderer through his prison sentence, why not be able to spend the same resources on more deserving people?

 

[savagewind]

In a modern society that has jails and prisons, no.

I have difficulty understanding why some of those who consider themselves "pro-life" to be in favor of it, as if it's based on some sort of concept that people cannot change.

That is so true. I think that either a person is against the execution of criminals and against all abortion or for execution and for the freedom to choose.

 

[savagewind]

I might add that I am certainly against the death penalty for only one offense.
The person who murders another should not be considered for execution. Only someone who is a murderer should be executed. To kill someone is one thing. To make it a habit is another.

 

[siti]

I think that my post presented good reasoning without any notion of revenge. I don't thin that revenge is a good reason. But I do believe in protecting society whilst also believing that life in prison is not a viable option.

So I have two arguments for the death penalty (in very specific circumstances):

1) Self-defense (protection of society)
2) Mercy (because death is favourable to life in a cage)

I don't see how the self-defense argument works - if we have caught them, convicted them and locked them up already, then presumably they are - unless we (i.e. the prison system) stuff up - no longer a genuine threat to society. In any case, and this was the point of the Minority Report thing - this means that we would effectively be executing them for crime(s) they had not yet committed. And that needs a much more robust defense than simply suggesting we need to "protect society".

I have a bit more sympathy for the "mercy" argument - but I'm not sure I would agree if I were on death row. Perhaps we should give the convicted murderer the option: life without parole or lethal injection?

 

[siti]

Punitive, after due consideration of the case - in India at the district level, then at the State level and lastly at the National level with due legal assistance to the criminal and according to law of the land cannot be termed as vengeful.

Because its carefully considered, planned and executed does not mean it isn't revenge does it? I could, for the sake of illustration, spend years justifying and plotting a revenge killing of someone who killed my friend (including taking great care to make sure I get the right guy and that he really did do it and meant to do it...etc.) and then carry out that killing in the most humane manner I could think of. That would still be murder. How is it any different just because 'the state', rather than an individual, does it?

There are millions of cases (in India, at least) where criminals on parole have committed murders, rapes, robberies, abductions, etc. Thousands of cases where criminals have 50 cases against them. The law should not be lenient with the criminals otherwise the society suffers.

And I've told you a million times not to exaggerate. We are talking about the death penalty - are you suggesting that the main justification for the death penalty is to reduce the rate of recidivism? Then presumably the maximum benefit will be derived if we execute ALL criminals? In any case if convicted murderers commit murder whilst on parole, that reflects a mistake on the part of the parole board in assessing the risk. If intentional, premeditated, unjustifiable homicide carried a mandatory life without parole sentence such mistakes could not be made and the state still avoids having to kill people.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I can understand that but why bring ourselves down to their level ?.

How does killing someone like Ted Bundy bring me down to his level? Killing him for raping, torturing and murdering dozens of women makes me the same as him?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Though I vigorously oppose the death penalty, there are always those special cases that crop up that make you go, "Hmmmm."

Exactly. The truth is that not everyone is able to be rehabilitated. Some people are born psychopaths and you can't really help them.

I also don't care for the deterrent argument because there will always be crime.

 

[psychoslice]

How does killing someone like Ted Bundy bring me down to his level? Killing him for raping, torturing and murdering dozens of women makes me the same as him?

Its still killing, it doesn't matter how many you kill or how you kill, its still killing.