Do You believe that Moses actually existed?

[Smoke]

Why do you not believe a man named Noah existed, or that it is not plausiable. Why believe in the others, but not him?

His whole story is implausible. It's so implausible that I don't see how any reasonable person could believe it. To me, it's like asking whether I believe a great tortoise supports the world on his back. If you remove the obviously fictional elements, what's left of Noah?

Do you believe a man named Muhammad existed?

Yes.

 

[jeffrey]

Why do people think Noah did not exist(spelling?), is a world-wide flood just not plausiable to you?

The flood, building that big of a boat, 2 of every animal, They would have to mate with their mother/father/sister, Not likely.

 

[Bishka]

God communicating to a single man, at the time of a worldwide flood, to build an ark and herd all the animals aboard while all of the wicked people of the world perish in the deluge: this is hard to swallow.

Why is this? I just wonder, because you say you are Jewish, yet you don't believe in this. I'm confused, I haven't studied up much on Judaism, so could you explain this to me? Thanks.

 

[Bishka]

The flood, building that big of a boat, 2 of every animal, They would have to mate with their mother/father/sister, Not likely.

Another question I should ask then, do you believe in Adam and Eve then? Were they actual people? From what I understand, the people who were on the boat were the people who listened to Noah, which I believe was only his family. I think most of his sons were married and had a few children by that time(this is what I believe), so techinically they would have been probably mating with their cousins.

 

[Popeyesays]

Why is this? I just wonder, because you say you are Jewish, yet you don't believe in this. I'm confused, I haven't studied up much on Judaism, so could you explain this to me? Thanks.

Noah existed I am sure. But there was no world-wide flood. There was undoubtedly a huge flood upon which the story of Noah is super-imposed. We also have the story of Gilgamesh in the same region. We have the geological record that sometime before 10,000 BCE the natural damn which kept water out of the Black Sea and Caspian basins gave way and the land was inundated. That would certainly have been "world-wide" to the people who suffered the diaster.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Smoke]

Another question I should ask then, do you believe in Adam and Eve then? Were they actual people? From what I understand, the people who were on the boat were the people who listened to Noah, which I believe was only his family. I think most of his sons were married and had a few children by that time(this is what I believe), so techinically they would have been probably mating with their cousins.

Suppose that the Bible started with Abraham, and no Christian/Mormon writer had ever mentioned anything about Adam and Eve or Noah. Pretend you've never heard the story of Adam and Eve or the story of Noah. Then you read those stories for the first time, learning that they're found in ancient Mesopotamian literature. Would you think they were plausible then?

I think the people who accept these stories as factual do so because to them, it's unthinkable to question their plausibility. Either they've always believed them, or they think they must believe them.

 

[Bishka]

Suppose that the Bible started with Abraham, and no Christian/Mormon writer had ever mentioned anything about Adam and Eve or Noah. Pretend you've never heard the story of Adam and Eve or the story of Noah. Then you read those stories for the first time, learning that they're found in ancient Mesopotamian literature. Would you think they were plausible then?

I think the people who accept these stories as factual do so because to them, it's unthinkable to question their plausibility. Either they've always believed them, or they think they must believe them.

That's a good point. I still believe in them though.

 

[Daniel Burbank]

Yes I believe that all three people physically existed, and I believe that the stuff written about them in the bible is true. I also believe that a worldwide flood existed. Though it may seem implausible for their to be a world wide flood, God certainly could do it, if you, like me, believe that God is all powerful. Let me point out that Noah brought seven clean animals of each kind of animal and two unclean animals of each kind of animal on the ark, according to the bible, so there weren't just a couple of animals on the earth to start out after the flood. As for the size of the ark, well God gave Noah 120 years to build the ark, so it naturally should have been quite large according to the number of years it took to complete it. Also, though feeding and maintaining all of these animals once on the ark seems implausible, God can work miracles (according to the bible, he gave the israelites bread from heaven in the wilderness and he fed 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish), so it seems logical that he would be able to provide Noah with a way of feeding all the animals.

As for the reason behind the flood, here's something very interesting in the bible that you might not have known even if you were familiar with the bible. Genesis 6:1-2 states "Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, that the sons of God (meaning the fallen angels from heaven who sided with the devil, because the same phrase appears again later in the bible obviously referring to the devil's angels) saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful, and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose." Verse four goes on to say, "There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown." What this means is that the fallen angels, the angels of the devil, actually took women from the earth as wives and bore giants and the like to them. So God meant the flood to cleanse the earth of it's impurities suffered because of the deeds of these fallen angels, and to start the earth anew. That is one reason for God to flood the earth, another reason being that man was disobeying God in those days.

Also, explain to me how scientists have found fossils of sea creatures on the tops of mountains. I was told that this phenomenon was attributed to earthquakes causing mountains, but this is something interesting to look at.

I'm sorry that this was so long, and I'm sure many of you do not agree with anything I said, but this is my personal view on the issue of the flood.

 

[painted wolf]

hmmm... well, its possible.

Its also possible that he is a metaphorical figure.

wa:do

 

[Deut 13:1]

Not Moses - Ka-mose.

No Exodus.

So what about Joshua? What are your thoughts on him?

 

[Smoke]

That's a good point. I still believe in them though.

I'm content if you can see why I don't.

 

[jeffrey]

Another question I should ask then, do you believe in Adam and Eve then? Were they actual people? From what I understand, the people who were on the boat were the people who listened to Noah, which I believe was only his family. I think most of his sons were married and had a few children by that time(this is what I believe), so techinically they would have been probably mating with their cousins.

Nope. Metaphore.

 

[nutshell]

Nope. Metaphore.

I'm very open to many stories in the Bible being metaphor, but I do have one question.

At what point does the old testament stop being metaphor and become history?

 

[jeffrey]

At what point does the old testament stop being metaphor and become history?

I don't look at any of it as history. Folklore that has been passed down from generation to generation. There's truth in it, but exactly how much is anybody's guess. I don't think that's important though. The important thing is God created us. Trust in him.

 

[YmirGF]

1. Moses (high probability of being fiction)
2. Jesus (100%, it happened. I think we just got the story wrong.)
3. Noah (bad fiction)

 

[nutshell]

I don't look at any of it as history. Folklore that has been passed down from generation to generation. There's truth in it, but exactly how much is anybody's guess. I don't think that's important though. The important thing is God created us. Trust in him.

Perhaps I phrased the question wrong (and I agree with you...it's not the "history" that's important, but the eternal truths revealed by God in his Word that is).

When do you think the people mentioned in the Bible became "real," rather than fictional characters in the folklore.

Adam?
Noah?
Abraham?
Moses?
Enoch?
David?
Solomon?
Daniel?

and so on.

Any of those folks real in your opinion?

 

[jeffrey]

To me, the God portrayed in the Bible is like a kid with an ant farm, we being the ants. Kid gets mad one day, dumps water in his farm, drowns a good portion of them. Gets mad at a mean ant, breaks out his magnifying glass and toasts one. This is how the Bible portrays God. I think God is not as mean as the Bible would have you think.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

1. Moses ...
2. Jesus (100%, it happened. ...)
3. Noah ...

100%

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So what about Joshua? What are your thoughts on him?

Once you conclude that the Exodus/Conquest narrative is fictive, there seems very little for Joshua to do.

 

[jeffrey]

Perhaps I phrased the question wrong (and I agree with you...it's not the "history" that's important, but the eternal truths revealed by God in his Word that is).

When do you think the people mentioned in the Bible became "real," rather than fictional characters in the folklore.

Adam?
Noah?
Abraham?
Moses?
Enoch?
David?
Solomon?
Daniel?

and so on.

Any of those folks real in your opinion?

Show me physical evidence any existed. Birth certificate, driver's licence, credit card receipts.. Seriously, show me physical evidence.