Do you consider circumcision child abuse?

[gnostic]

I'd consider it child abuse.

There are no reason to cut away health tissues. It's unnecessary.

And you don't unnecessarily inflict pain on a child, because of some damn religious belief or notion.

If you are adult, you can do whatever you want with your body, and that would include circumcision. I still consider the practice to be unnecessary, but being an adult that would be your choice. A male infant has no choice and wouldn't understand what's going on.

 

[Falvlun]

I'd consider it child abuse.

There are no reason to cut away health tissues. It's unnecessary.

And you don't unnecessarily inflict pain on a child, because of some damn religious belief or notion.

If you are adult, you can do whatever you want with your body, and that would include circumcision. I still consider the practice to be unnecessary, but being an adult that would be your choice. A male infant has no choice and wouldn't understand what's going on.

I still think that it sort of cheapens the meaning of the word "child abuse". Is it unnecessary? Yeah. But does it leave lasting psychological or physical issues? Not really.

 

[Alceste]

I still think that it sort of cheapens the meaning of the word "child abuse". Is it unnecessary? Yeah. But does it leave lasting psychological or physical issues? Not really.

I don't think it's super high on the spectrum of child abuse, but that is the category I see it in. Kind of like someone grabbing your boob in a crowd is on the spectrum of sexual assault, but nothing I'm gonna call the police in for. I'm content that the popularity of the practice is declining as people mull it over.

 

[idav]

I don't think it's super high on the spectrum of child abuse, but that is the category I see it in. Kind of like someone grabbing your boob in a crowd is on the spectrum of sexual assault, but nothing I'm gonna call the police in for. I'm content that the popularity of the practice is declining as people mull it over.

It's in the realm of piercing babies ears if there is actual medical benefits or like taking out the tonsils or appendix.

 

[Alceste]

It's in the realm of piercing babies ears if there is actual medical benefits or like taking out the tonsils or appendix.

To be honest, I don't think babies should have their ears pierced either, but that's not as bad since the holes would eventually close over if the earrings were taken out. The foreskin is gone forever.

Tonsillectomy and appendectomy are treatments for actual medical conditions. I have no objection to circumcision in the rare cases where it is medically necessary.

 

[averageJOE]

A fairly balanced article and statistics here
BBC News - Circumcision, the ultimate parenting dilemma

I think that was probably the most balanced article on the subject I've ever read.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It seems the NHS puts Circumcision in the same bracket as all other voluntry body modifications.

Though in some limited regions and circumstances it does pay for it to be done in hospital, especially in largely poor Muslim and african populations, where it would otherwise be done, at great risk, in backstreets.

 

[averageJOE]

It seems the NHS puts Circumcision in the same bracket as all other voluntry body modifications.

Though in some limited regions and circumstances it does pay for it to be done in hospital, especially in largely poor Muslim and african populations, where it would otherwise be done, at great risk, in backstreets.

The reason why I don't think an outright ban would work. (Pretty much one of the same reasons I hold for abortions, but that's for a different thread.)

 

[idav]

To be honest, I don't think babies should have their ears pierced either, but that's not as bad since the holes would eventually close over if the earrings were taken out. The foreskin is gone forever.

Tonsillectomy and appendectomy are treatments for actual medical conditions. I have no objection to circumcision in the rare cases where it is medically necessary.

I've seen a case where it ended up being medically necessary only because of chronic UTI where the parent attempted to let it be cause it was cosmetic. That area rides a line between necessary vs. cosmetic.

 

[Curious George]

I do not currently think that it is child abuse.

I have read many people comparing it to body modifications such as piercings and tattoos. I think that the comparison is valid. I also think that the comparison to removing the appendix or tonsils is relevant if we were to do these operations prior to the condition which usually prompts such operations.

I would also compare it to getting certain vaccinations which are not really necessary.

The argument for consent falls short since we do, and must, make life altering choices for our children.

That some are bitter about the choices which the parent makes hardly necessitates the removal of the right to make such a choice by the parents.

I remember hearing a story where the father absolutely did not want his child circumcised and the mother went behind his back and had the procedure done in spite of his wish. I feel this is unethical. Thus, I would suggest that circumcision represents a situation where the "no" in the relationship trumps the "yes."

Finally, I would not even term circumcision as a "lesser abuse" as some throughout this thread have done. The last "lesser abuse" notion compared circumcision to abuse in the same way that grabbing a boob in a crowd is to sexual assault. However, were I occasioned to meet someone unrepentant about his or her tendency to "sexually assault" people in a crowd I would not continue to associate with such a person. However, I do not react this way toward parents who choose circumcision because instead of a viewing circumcision as a "lesser abuse," I view circumcision as a choice that parents make. Whether this is a "good" choice or a "bad" choice is certainly questionable. However, I do not see it as maltreatment.

 

[Sunstone]

It's my impression neither the harm nor benefit of circumcision is well established. But I do think that if it were shown to be harmful, a case could be made for it being child abuse. While if it were shown to be beneficial, such a case would be very difficult to make. And if it were shown to be both harmful and beneficial and the same time, then the only rational thing is for us to all go nuts.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's my impression neither the harm nor benefit of circumcision is well established.

... only in terms of medical outcomes. Circumcision still inflicts extreme pain on an infant, which I'd say is significant harm all by itself.

 

[Sunstone]

... only in terms of medical outcomes. Circumcision still inflicts extreme pain on an infant, which I'd say is significant harm all by itself.

I'm puzzled. You don't think anesthesia works in these cases?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm puzzled. You don't think anesthesia works in these cases?

- Anesthetic isn't always used, especially when circumcision is done as part of a religious ritual.

- It can still be very painful, even with anesthetic. For an example of this, there's a post in another thread where Songbird described her experience watching her son being circumcised - with anesthetic - and still expressing significant pain.

- Anesthetic wears off, and significant soreness can continue for days afterward during recovery.

- Minor complications or errors can cause significant pain for a long period afterward. For instance, in that story from Songbird, she mentioned how the doctor nicked her son's glans during the circumcision. Without it becoming infected, it probably wouldn't show up as a "complication" in the stats, but she talked about how her son would flinch and cry when his diaper was changed for weeks afterward.

 

[Sunstone]

- Anesthetic isn't always used, especially when circumcision is done as part of a religious ritual.

- It can still be very painful, even with anesthetic. For an example of this, there's a post in another thread where Songbird described her experience watching her son being circumcised - with anesthetic - and still expressing significant pain.

- Anesthetic wears off, and significant soreness can continue for days afterward during recovery.

- Minor complications or errors can cause significant pain for a long period afterward. For instance, in that story from Songbird, she mentioned how the doctor nicked her son's glans during the circumcision. Without it becoming infected, it probably wouldn't show up as a "complication" in the stats, but she talked about how her son would flinch and cry when his diaper was changed for weeks afterward.

Thanks! That's very interesting information.

 

[Titanic]

it is not child abuse in my opinion not having circumcision would just be irrating for the penis truthfully.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

What's abusive is subjecting women to bizarre penises that look like mutant tubeworms.

 

[Alceste]

What's abusive is subjecting women to bizarre penises that look like mutant tubeworms.

They're fun.

 

[Alceste]

it is not child abuse in my opinion not having circumcision would just be irrating for the penis truthfully.

It isn't.

 

[Titanic]

It isn't.

It isn't that it is not child abuse? or it isn't that not having circumcision done is not irrating to the penis?