Do you do Qur'anic commands?

[Union]

Similar to the Islam Ahmadiyya view.

As Ahmadi Muslims, we hold the view that the Qur'an is the superior book and that no law outside the Qur'an can overcome the law given in the Qur'an. We also believe that every law given by God has been stated in the Qur'an.

We however do not reject all ahadith, we have a strict policy for ahadith. Those ahadith which are in severe contradiction with Qur'an are simply disregarded. Those ahadith which clearly support the Qur'an and do not contradict with it, they are followed.

For example, if there is a hadith about the prophet Muhammad (saw) asking his companions to be kind to their mothers. This hadith supports several Qur'anic commands where it tells believers to obey, respect, and show kindness to parents.

And at the same time, we understand how the Muslim world has gone unto corruption because they have exchanged their truth for falsehood. They have let the Qur'an go and started to follow their own desires. The truth is that the Qur'an is the final law, and only with this final law can everything else be worked with.

Hi OC . Good to see you sharing your valuable thoughts in this thread . What you say about Hadith is virtually true for any book . If Bible says 'GOD is One' , we can follow it as it does not contradict the Qur'an . If Kitab Al Muqaddas says 'Muhammad is Prophet' then same applies .

According to Almighty ALLAH himself , Qur'an is the only source of Islam . Islam starts from Surah Fatiha and finishes with Surah Naas . Qur'an is self-sufficient , self-explained and non-dependent . It doesn't need Hadith to explain it , doesn't matter Hadith agrees with it or not .

The message of Prophet Muhammad was Qur'an and not Hadith .

 

[mojtaba]

Again this discussion is about Hadith and not about Fiqh . Nevertheless there are plenty Shia Ahadith prohibited Music :

01.Hazrat Imam Ali ar-Reza (a.s.) remarks,
"A person invites Divine wrath when in his house instruments like flute, drum and chess are played for forty days. If this man dies within these forty days, his death would be of a sinner and a transgressor. His place shall be in Hell. And what a dreadful place it is!"
(Mustanad al Taraqi)

02.The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) has stated,
"A person who possesses a sitar, on the day of Qiyamat will be raised with a black face. His hands will be holding a sitar of fire. Seventy thousand angels with maces of fire will be hitting him on the face and the head. The singer will arise from his grave, blind, deaf and dumb. The adulterer will be similarly raised. The player of flute will also be made to rise in this way as will be the drum player."
(Mustadrakul Wasael)

03.Hazrat Imam Ali ar-Reza (a.s.) has said,
"To listen to a musical instrument is one of the Greater Sins."
(Mustadrakul Wasael)

04.Amirul Momineen Ali (a.s.) says,
"Angels do not even enter a house that has wine, drum, tambourine or a flute. Even the prayers of the inhabitants of this house are unacceptable. They are deprived of barakat."
(Wasaelush Shia)

05.The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) has also said,
"The Almighty Allah has sent me as a mercy to the worlds, to guide the people. And He ordered me to eradicate the playing of flute and other instruments of music, all games of vice, idol (worship) and all practices of the days of ignorance."
(Mustadrakul Wasael, Chapter 79)

06.Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) reports from the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) that he said:
"I prohibit for you dancing and playing flute, drums and tabla."
(Al Kafi)

07.Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) has also said,

“Even learning to sing or play music and teaching it, to sing and play music, to be paid for these things or to be in any way engrossed in these vices is Haraam."
(Tohafful Uqool)

08.The sixth Holy Imam, Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) said,
"Listening to music, songs and useless words cultivate hypocrisy in the heart, in the same way as algae grows in water."
(Al Kafi)

09.Al Kafi mentions a tradition of Imam as-Sadiq (a.s.) that,
"Singing and music is a nest for the bird called hypocrisy."

10.Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) says:

"The house where music is played is not safe from sudden disasters. Supplications at such a place are not answered. Angels do not enter this place."

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) is quoted to have said:
"Molten lead shall be poured into the ears of one who listens to songs, intently."
(Mustadrakul Wasael)

11.It is also narrated from Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) that he said,
"Whenever a person begins singing, two satans mount on his shoulders and continue to hit their heels upon his chest, till the time he sings the song."

12.Hazrat Imam Ali Ibn Musa ar-Reza (a.s.) said,
"One who avoids songs shall be provided by Allah, a tree, which will produce such a melodious sound as has never been heard by anyone. But the one who has not kept himself aloof from songs will not be able to hear this sound."
(Al Kafi)

13.The following tradition of Allah's Messenger (s.a.w.s.) is recorded in the book Tafseer Majmaul Bayan,
"One who has listened to too many songs will not be able to hear the Ruhaanis on the Day of Qiyamat."

"Who are the Ruhaanis, O Prophet of Allah (s.a.w.s.)?" someone asked.

The Prophet (s.a.w.s.) replied,
"They are the melodious singers of Heaven."

A similar tradition from Hazrat Ali (a.s.) is found in Nahjul Balagha,
"Hazrat Dawood (a.s.) will be the chief of the singers of Paradise."
(Nahjul Balagha)

14."The people will listen to such melodious songs from Hazrat Dawood (a.s.) in Heaven, the like of which have never been heard by anyone. However only those who have refrained from listening to songs in this world would be able to hear them."

The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.s.) said:
"Singing is the stepping stone to fornication."
(Mustadrakul Wasael)

15.Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (a.s.) says,
"And all those wasteful pastimes are haraam which make one forgetful of Allah; like songs and playing musical instruments."

The traditions concerning the signs of the last stage before the Zuhoor of our Imam (a.s.) mention music:

"And you shall see that music will be so prevalent that no one will dissuade others nor will he find in himself the need to do so. And you shall see that music would be openly played even in the two sanctuaries (the city of Makkah and Madinah)."
(Mustanade Naraqi)

Science of hadith(ilm-alhadith) answers you.
This hadiths was said when the musical instruments were almost used for lahwī Music or ghinā’ and in sin parties . Hence this hadiths say that using from musical instruments is Haram.
In shia fiqh, which is according to Qur'an, true Hadiths and Intellect, if a musical instrument is used for Halal music by someone, and for Haram music by others(i.e. it isn't almost used for Haram music), It is Halal(permissible) to use that instrument.

 

[mojtaba]

We are talking about Hadith and not Fiqh, , regardless the reference go back to Shia and/or Sunni , I didn't care .

Shia fiqh is according to Qur'an, true Hadiths and Intellect.

 

[Union]

Science of hadith(ilm-alhadith) answers you.
This hadiths was said when the musical instruments were almost used for lahwī Music or ghinā’ and in sin parties . Hence this hadiths say that using from musical instruments is Haram.
In shia fiqh, which is according to Qur'an, true Hadiths and Intellect, if a musical instrument is used for Halal music by someone, and for Haram music by others(i.e. it isn't almost used for Haram music), It is Halal(permitted) to use that instrument.

It would be more solid if you produce a direct Hadith which confirms this Fiqh . An easy search gave me dozens Ahadith which are against Music , one or two opposite to that may not help this much rather will expose how contradictory this Hadith issue is !

 

[mojtaba]

It would be more solid if you produce a direct Hadith which confirms this Fiqh . An easy search gave me dozens Ahadith which are against Music , one or two opposite to that may not help this much rather will expose how contradictory this Hadith issue is !

You search internet, But faqih do this verse of Quran and acquires a deeper knowledge of the Religion :

9:122 " And it is not desirable that the believers go forth ( to war ) all together. so it should be that a party from each group goes forth( towards the Prophet ) in order to devote themselves to acquiring a deeper knowledge of the Religion. and [thus be able to] teach their home-coming brethren, so that these [too] might guard themselves against evil ".

 

[faroukfarouk]

Made your confession bold , underlined and font-7 . You admitted already that the creation of Sunni/Shia sect is against the command of ALLAH , the Almighty , hence what Sunni/Shia do practice and teach , how that could be in favor of Islam ? Again read the verse :

[006:159] Surely they who divided their religion into parts and became sects, you have no concern with them; their affair is only with Allah, then He will inform them of what they did.

لست = You are not
منهم = With them
في = In
شئ = Anything

Hadith were created and propagated by these two major sects among Muslim , hence according to Qur'an we are commanded to abandon anything , which includes the Hadith automatically that concern these sects . Simple , but very painful to admit , right ?

Again thank you for your confession and may Almighty ALLAH bring you out from this trap of sectarism into the real Islam by means of the excuse of this confession .




Prophet Muhammad .

As salamu alaykum brother Union.
Jazakallah for your reply.
Note lets leave the discussion on sects for a little later.
Now answer the next question.
Who understood the teachings of the Noble Quraan better after the demise of our beloved Prophet Muhammad(SAW)?
You,Me or the Sahabas

Salaams
faroukfarouk

 

[OurCreed]

Hi OC . Good to see you sharing your valuable thoughts in this thread . What you say about Hadith is virtually true for any book . If Bible says 'GOD is One' , we can follow it as it does not contradict the Qur'an . If Kitab Al Muqaddas says 'Muhammad is Prophet' then same applies .

According to Almighty ALLAH himself , Qur'an is the only source of Islam . Islam starts from Surah Fatiha and finishes with Surah Naas . Qur'an is self-sufficient , self-explained and non-dependent . It doesn't need Hadith to explain it , doesn't matter Hadith agrees with it or not .

The message of Prophet Muhammad was Qur'an and not Hadith .

You are right, we do not disagree on these points.

 

[Union]

As salamu alaykum brother Union.
Jazakallah for your reply.
Note lets leave the discussion on sects for a little later.
Now answer the next question.
Who understood the teachings of the Noble Quraan better after the demise of our beloved Prophet Muhammad(SAW)?
You,Me or the Sahabas

Salaams
faroukfarouk

Sahabas.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Sahabas.

As salamu alaykum brother Union.
Jazakallah for your patience and reply.
Now who understood the teachings of the Noble Quraan better after the demise of the Sahabas?
You,me or the Tabi'un.

Salaams
faroukfarouk

 

[NoX]

As salamu alaykum brother Union.
Jazakallah for your reply.
Note lets leave the discussion on sects for a little later.
Now answer the next question.
Who understood the teachings of the Noble Quraan better after the demise of our beloved Prophet Muhammad(SAW)?
You,Me or the Sahabas

Salaams
faroukfarouk

Anyone would understand Quran better, maybe a non-Muslim person, maybe a sahaba, maybe you.

 

[mojtaba]

Salam Mojtaba and you are most welcome .
Before answering you from the Qur’an itself , let me try to give you an analogy . If Tom is our teacher and we have two statements like below :

‘Tom is the teacher ‘ and ‘Follow your teacher ’ , then where does the emphasis go ? On ‘Tom’ or on ‘Teacher’ ? Obviously on teacher . We are not told to follow ‘person’ Tom but the ‘teacher' Tom for what he is teaching .

Now let us turn into the Qur’an ; the verse number you mentioned is wrong , it is found in 48:29 and not in 48:90 . Whatsoever , Almighty ALLAH Himself classified Muhammad into two dimensions . Please read the following verse attentively :

4:50] قلانضللتفانمااضلعلىنفسيواناهتديتفبمايوحياليربيانهسميعقريب

[034:050]Say: "If I am astray,I only stray to the loss of my own soul:but if I receive guidance, it is because of the Wahi of my Lord to me: it is He Who hears all things, and is (ever) near."

The above verse depicts Muhammad as :

Muhammad + Wahi (Qur’an) = A perfect Muhammad ………………… (1)
Muhammad – Wahi (Qur’an) = An erroneous Muhammad …………….(2)

(1) can also be expressed as : Muhammad + Message (Qur’an) = Messenger Muhammad ………… (3)
(2) can also be expressed as : Muhammad – Message (Qur’an) =Ordinary human Muhammad ……(4)

In verse 34:50 Muhammad of (1)+(3) isاهتديت(guided) because ofيوحياليربي(Wahi from his Lord)

In verse 34:50 Muhammad of (2)+(3) isاضل(erred) because ofنفسي(His own self)

Example from Qur'an

[066:001] O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which God has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

[066:002] God has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths (in some cases): and God is your Protector, and He is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

The above noble verse is an example where Prophet made a gross mistake by exchanging Halal to haram just to please his wives . Almighty ALLAH (swt) found it objectionable and rectified as well as warned him . The nature of this Muhammad was who اضل(erred) because ofنفسي(His own self) [Ref.34:50 above]

Wa Alaikum Salaam Wa Rahmat Allah.
My friend, you have not understand the concept of the verse 34:50.
The true translation is this: " Say [O, Mohammad], "If I strayed, I would only stray against myself. But if I am guided, it is by what my Lord reveals to me. Indeed, He is Hearing and near." "
In this verse, God instructs Prophet Mohammad(صل الله علیه و آله و صحبه و سلم) to say to polytheists that : If I am astray( according to my Religion ,as you think), I would only stray against myself(i.e. , this loss is harmful for me ) and if I am guided, it is by what my Lord reveals to me[ and l myself( without Wahi ) can not know what is guidance ].

It is true that Prophet can not know the truth without guidance of God, but I say that Qur'an is set of principles and Prophet is Who teaches this principles.
62:2 "It is He who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom - although they were before in clear error -".

This verse and other verses that are same with this, say that Prophet has two duties(which are relevant to our debate) :
1-reciting His verses.
2-teaching the Book(Qur'an).

So you consider and mention the first duty of Prophet and do not consider the other. Prophet must say the verses of holy Qur'an to peoples and also teach them this book, because this book need a teacher. Actually, these teachings are true Hadiths.

The verse already exposed the fallible nature of Ulil-Amar and it cancelled their authority from the final equation as it is as always ‘ Obey GOD and the messenger’ :

[4:59] O ye who believe! (Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger)*, and those charged with authority among you**. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger***, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.

* Absolute authority
** Temporary authority
*** Back to absolute authority when Ulul Amr fail .
Ironically it proves that 12 Shia Imams ( as you believed them to Uil Amr in 4.59) are fallible human and they should be disregarded when they are prone to dispute .

These Ulul Amr( owners of authority and commands ) have absolute authority,because the verse says " obey Messenger and Ulul Amr " that indicates just as we must obey Messenger, we must obey the Ulul Amr. But this part of verse[ If ye(who believe) are differ in anything, refer it to Allah and His Messenger ] indicates that Ulul Amr( owners of authority and commands ) must command what it is in Qur'an( Allah ) and Sunnah( Messenger ).

This verse proves that our 12 Imams are infallible, because as we must obey Mssenger, we must obey Them.(obey Messenger and Ulul Amr)
Also it proves that our 12 Imams must command according to Qur'an and Sunnah.[ If ye(who believe) are differ in anything, refer it to Allah and His Messenger ]

Also read this verse that indicates, Ulul Amr know the matters as much as Messenger knows:
4:83" When there comes to them some matter touching (Public) safety or fear, they divulge it. If they had only referred it to the Messenger, or to owners of commands (Who are) from themselves(Ulul Amr), who investigate it from them(Messenger and Ulul Amr), certainly know the matter ".
This verse indicates that faithfuls who aren't Ulul Amr can do something wrong. But from them, there is some persons(Ulul Amr) that can know the matter, like Messenger without any mistakes.

What this verse 20:90 has to do with this discussion ? Wasn't Aaron a messenger already that time ? Didn't he get the message already from Almighty ALLAH that HE is One and not to worship anything/anybody apart from HIM , the Exalted ?

Yes. Aaron was messenger. I use from this verse that " obey Messenger " doesn't mean " obey Wahi which is merely the holy book ".
Because when Aaron said: " follow me and obey my command ", there wasn't Torah.
So Wahi is not merely the holy book and your opinion that ' Wahi (= Qur’an) ' isn't correct

 

[Union]

As salamu alaykum brother Union.
Jazakallah for your patience and reply.
Now who understood the teachings of the Noble Quraan better after the demise of the Sahabas?
You,me or the Tabi'un.

Salaams
faroukfarouk

Wa Salam alayka wa Rahama wa Baraqa

This time I have no clue mate . Nothing in black and white for the Tabi'un . The golden chain of the Qur'an stops with the companions of the Prophet :

ALLAH , the Almighty ===> Archangel Gabriel ===> Prophet Muhammad ====> Companions of the Prophet ===> Preservation of the Qur'an accomplished for the next generations .

 

[Union]

Wa Alaikum Salaam Wa Rahmat Allah.
My friend, you have not understand the concept of the verse 34:50.
The true translation is this: " Say [O, Mohammad], "If I strayed, I would only stray against myself. But if I am guided, it is by what my Lord reveals to me. Indeed, He is Hearing and near." "
In this verse, God instructs Prophet Mohammad(صل الله علیه و آله و صحبه و سلم) to say to polytheists that : If I am astray( according to my Religion ,as you think), I would only stray against myself(i.e. , this loss is harmful for me ) and if I am guided, it is by what my Lord reveals to me[ and l myself( without Wahi ) can not know what is guidance ].

You are making a simple comprehensible verse into a complicate one just for a reason to suit your tenet . Taking your translation ( which is not different than mine though) :
Say* [O, Mohammad], "If I** strayed, I** would only stray against myself***. But if I** am guided, it is by what my Lord reveals to me**. Indeed, He is Hearing and near." "

* Addressed to Muhammad ( you mentioned already)
** Who is that 'I/me/myself' .? It was Prophet Muhammad .

So what is the big deal ? It was Prophet Muhammad who would go astray for his own short-comings and would be fallible only when Almighty GOD would reveal Wahi to him .Moreover I backed this true understating of the verse with the example of Qur'an that chapter 66 depicted how Prophet Muhammad did wrong with his own decision and that Almighty ALLAH rectified himwith the wahi of 66:1-5 . It makes a perfect sense , obviously for an honest reader of the book of ALLAH .

It is true that Prophet can not know the truth without guidance of God, but I say that Qur'an is set of principles and Prophet is Who teaches this principles.
62:2 "It is He who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from themselves reciting to them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the Book and wisdom - although they were before in clear error -".

This verse and other verses that are same with this, say that Prophet has two duties(which are relevant to our debate) :
1-reciting His verses.
2-teaching the Book(Qur'an).

So you consider and mention the first duty of Prophet and do not consider the other. Prophet must say the verses of holy Qur'an to peoples and also teach them this book, because this book need a teacher. Actually, these teachings are true Hadiths.

Where this 'Hadith' came from ? The verse remotely not relating Hadith in the context of the verse . It simply says ' teaching them the book ' . The book is Qur'an , which Prophet Muhammad was teaching them , Not 15,000 Ahadith of Al-Kafi , as you mistakenly perceived .

A scenario , imaginary of course , for your perusal ( assume Prophet Muhammad was teaching the book to Imam Ali) :

Imam Ali : Ya Prophet, Who is our GOD ?
Prophet : Ya Ali , verse x:x says ' ALLAH is your only GOD ' .
Imam Ali : Ya Prophet , has ALLAH a son ?
Prophet : Ya Ali, verse y:y says ' ALLAH does not beget nor is begotten' .
Imam Ali : Ya Prophet , What is the name of our religion ?
Prophet Ali : Ya Ali , verse z:z says , ' Islam is your religion' .

Hopefully you get this simple fact .

These Ulul Amr( owners of authority and commands ) have absolute authority,because the verse says " obey Messenger and Ulul Amr " that indicates just as we must obey Messenger, we must obey the Ulul Amr. But this part of verse[ If ye(who believe) are differ in anything, refer it to Allah and His Messenger ] indicates that Ulul Amr( owners of authority and commands ) must command what it is in Qur'an( Allah ) and Sunnah( Messenger ).

This verse proves that our 12 Imams are infallible, because as we must obey Mssenger, we must obey Them.(obey Messenger and Ulul Amr)
Also it proves that our 12 Imams must command according to Qur'an and Sunnah.[ If ye(who believe) are differ in anything, refer it to Allah and His Messenger ]

Also read this verse that indicates, Ulul Amr know the matters as much as Messenger knows:
4:83" When there comes to them some matter touching (Public) safety or fear, they divulge it. If they had only referred it to the Messenger, or to owners of commands (Who are) from themselves(Ulul Amr), who investigate it from them(Messenger and Ulul Amr), certainly know the matter ".
This verse indicates that faithfuls who aren't Ulul Amr can do something wrong. But from them, there is some persons(Ulul Amr) that can know the matter, like Messenger without any mistakes.

Actually relating 12 Imams to this verse is just an imagination of Shia Muslims aas no one can stop Sunni to imagine this Ulil Amr being 4 Caliphs . That is unnecessary to discuss here as it is not mentioned in the verse . So let us ponder in the verse as it is .

Simply the verse says :

Firstly, ALLAH + Messenger + Ulil Amr = Follow them
Then, ALLAH + Messenger = Follow them

Why this elimination ? Because of the dispute . Ulil Amar are actually not any special group or persons rather people from us as the verse says , 'Ulil Amar minkum
...' means 'Ulill Amar from you ...' and the ' Fa in tazabtum...' means ' If you dispute...' .

This is also simple and an honest reader of the Qur'an won't go wrong to understand these like the way described above .

Yes. Aaron was messenger. I use from this verse that " obey Messenger " doesn't mean " obey Wahi which is merely the holy book ".
Because when Aaron said: " follow me and obey my command ", there wasn't Torah.
So Wahi is not merely the holy book and your opinion that ' Wahi (= Qur’an) ' isn't correct

There was Wahi already and specifically related to what Prophet Aaron was prohibiting them to worship the calf [Ref 26.16 ] . Prophet Aaron was not telling them to follow him in everything rather in the case of not worshiping the calf and only to worship the one real GOD :


[20:90] And Aaron had told them, "O my people, this is a test for you. Your only Lord is the Most Gracious, so follow me, and obey my commands."
[20:91] They said, "We will continue to worship it, until Moses comes back."

 

[mojtaba]

You are making a simple comprehensible verse into a complicate one just for a reason to suit your tenet . Taking your translation ( which is not different than mine though) :
Say* [O, Mohammad], "If I** strayed, I** would only stray against myself***. But if I** am guided, it is by what my Lord reveals to me**. Indeed, He is Hearing and near." "

* Addressed to Muhammad ( you mentioned already)
** Who is that 'I/me/myself' .? It was Prophet Muhammad .

So what is the big deal ? It was Prophet Muhammad who would go astray for his own short-comings and would be fallible only when Almighty GOD would reveal Wahi to him .Moreover I backed this true understating of the verse with the example of Qur'an that chapter 66 depicted how Prophet Muhammad did wrong with his own decision and that Almighty ALLAH rectified himwith the wahi of 66:1-5 . It makes a perfect sense , obviously for an honest reader of the book of ALLAH .

53:1-4 " By the star when it plunges,«1» your companion is neither astray, neither errs,(according to what he says/ his Religion)«2»nor does he speak out of desire.«3» Indeed it is not except a Revelation which is revealed,«4» ".

This verses interpret 34:50. So 34:50 never means that Prophet Mohammad went astray for his own short-comings! This verses and 34:50 say that polytheists were saying that, Mohammad has gone astray according to his religion, and Allah replied them that your companion is neither astray, neither errs,(according to what he says, i.e. his Religion).
So I didn't make a simple comprehensible verse into a complicate one just for a reason to suit my tenet! I just consider all verses of Qur'an and then translate a verse.

Where this 'Hadith' came from ? The verse remotely not relating Hadith in the context of the verse . It simply says ' teaching them the book ' . The book is Qur'an , which Prophet Muhammad was teaching them , Not 15,000 Ahadith of Al-Kafi , as you mistakenly perceived .

A scenario , imaginary of course , for your perusal ( assume Prophet Muhammad was teaching the book to Imam Ali) :

Imam Ali : Ya Prophet, Who is our GOD ?
Prophet : Ya Ali , verse x:x says ' ALLAH is your only GOD ' .
Imam Ali : Ya Prophet , has ALLAH a son ?
Prophet : Ya Ali, verse y:y says ' ALLAH does not beget nor is begotten' .
Imam Ali : Ya Prophet , What is the name of our religion ?
Prophet Ali : Ya Ali , verse z:z says , ' Islam is your religion' .

Hopefully you get this simple fact .

1. 5:38 " [As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they committed as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.«38» ".

So what is the measure in which the hand should be amputated? Hadith answers this question.

2. Should all thieves be punished in this manner? Hadith answers.( These are some of requirements for aplying this punishment: 1.The theft should not have taken place during famines and droughts, when the people are suffering from hunger and possess no means, 2. The item that is stolen should possess a value of at least one-fourth of a dinar, 3. It should have been stolen from a secured place such as a house, a shop, internal pockets etc. and other requirements)

3. How is Ghusl? what part(s) of the body should be washed in Ghusl (4:43)? Hadith answers.

4. How is Tayammom? 4:43 "And if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and find no water, then seek clean earth and wipe over( tayammamoo ) a part of your faces and your hands [with it]" What part of face or hand must be wiped over with clean soil for Tayammom? Hadith answers.
and so on... .

This answers are teachings of Qur'an. Qur'an is a set of principles and true Hadiths are interpretation and teachings of these principles.

Actually relating 12 Imams to this verse is just an imagination of Shia Muslims aas no one can stop Sunni to imagine this Ulil Amr being 4 Caliphs . That is unnecessary to discuss here as it is not mentioned in the verse . So let us ponder in the verse as it is .

Simply the verse says :

Firstly, ALLAH + Messenger + Ulil Amr = Follow them
Then, ALLAH + Messenger = Follow them

Why this elimination ? Because of the dispute . Ulil Amar are actually not any special group or persons rather people from us as the verse says , 'Ulil Amar minkum
...' means 'Ulill Amar from you ...' and the ' Fa in tazabtum...' means ' If you dispute...' .

This is also simple and an honest reader of the Qur'an won't go wrong to understand these like the way described above .

Dear Union, please read this verse more precisely: 4:59
"O (you who have believed)*, (obey Allah) and (obey the Messenger** and Owners of authority from you<minkum>***). And if you* disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger".

In this verse, there are three ones:
* Believers
** Messenger
*** The Owners of authority.(Ulul Amr)

This verse says that belivers must do all commands of Allah(Quran), Messenger( Sunnah ), and Ulul Amr(those who can know Quran and Sunnah precisly without any fault and mistake).
So If believers*(who were addressed in the first part of the verse by Allah) dispute in anything, they should reffer legislation to Qur'an and Sunnah(What Ulul Amr can know and understand it without any mistake, because the verse says we must do their commands, just as we must do infalliable Messenger commands) = they(believers*) should do the commands of Ulul Amr when Messenger is not with them, and also Ulul Amr order acording to Qur'an and Sunnah.

"Minkum" in the verse doesn't prove that Ulul Amr are some peoples like us, who aren't like Quran and Messenger infallible. "Minkum" indicates that Ulul Amr are believers and not Kafir, Jewish or Christian.
Please see this verse for minkum:
2:151 " ( O, believers) Just as We have sent among you a messenger from yourselves(minkum) reciting to you Our verses and purifying you and teaching you the Book and wisdom and teaching you that which you did not know. ".
Minkum in this verse is exactly like minkum in 4:59.

And about "If you dispute in anything, reffer it to Allah and Messenger".
' You' refers to the beliviers* who the first part of the verse addressed them and doesn't refer to Ulul Amr***.Indeed, This part of verse says that when believers dispute, they should resolve thier dispute with the laws of Quran(Allah) and sunnah(Messenger) and when Messenger or Ulul Amr order any command, they shold accept and obey it. The next verse confirm this interpretation:
4:60 " Have you not seen those who claim to have believed in what was revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you? They wish to refer legislation to Taghut(Who doesn't order according to Qur'an and Sunnah = who is not Messenger or Ulul Amr), while they were commanded to reject it; and Satan wishes to lead them far astray. ".

There was Wahi already and specifically related to what Prophet Aaron was prohibiting them to worship the calf [Ref 26.16 ] . Prophet Aaron was not telling them to follow him in everything rather in the case of not worshiping the calf and only to worship the one real GOD :

[20:90] And Aaron had told them, "O my people, this is a test for you. Your only Lord is the Most Gracious, so follow me, and obey my commands."
[20:91] They said, "We will continue to worship it, until Moses comes back."

You have mentioned that: There was Wahi already.
Hence it isn't correct which you say: Wahi only = holy Book(e.g. Quran). Right?

 

[mojtaba]

66:1-5
1.Prophet, why do you prohibit [yourself from] what Allah has made lawful for you, seeking the approval of your wives? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
2.Allah has already ordained for you [Muslims] the dissolution of your oaths. And Allah is your protector, and He is the Knowing, the Wise.
3.And [remember] when the Prophet confided to one of his wives a statement; and when she informed [another] of it and Allah showed it to him, he made known part of it and ignored a part. And when he informed her about it, she said, "Who told you this?" He said, "I was informed by the Knowing, the Acquainted."
4.If you two [wives] repent to Allah, [it is best], for your hearts have deviated. But if you cooperate against him - then indeed Allah is his protector, and Gabriel and the righteous of the believers and the angels, moreover, are [his] assistants.
5.Perhaps his Lord, if he divorced you [all], would substitute for him wives better than you - submitting [to Allah], believing, devoutly obedient, repentant, worshipping, and traveling - [ones] previously married and virgins.

According to these verses, Prophet Mohammad(p.b.u.h.) prohibited a thing which was lawful for himself by oath to satisfy his wives.
This doing of Prophet was not wrong, because prohibiting a halal(lawful) thing with oath is allowable. But in the first verse, Allah for rebuking the wives of Prophet, because of forcing him to make a halal thing to haram for himself by oath( which was a lawful doing) , say to Mohammad(p.b.u.h.) to dissolution his oath.
Indeed, this verses(66:1-5) are just rebulks to Prophet wives.

 

[Union]

53:1-4 " By the star when it plunges,«1» your companion is neither astray, neither errs,(according to what he says/ his Religion)«2»nor does he speak out of desire.«3» Indeed it is not except a Revelation which is revealed,«4» ".

This verses interpret 34:50. So 34:50 never means that Prophet Mohammad went astray for his own short-comings! This verses and 34:50 say that polytheists were saying that, Mohammad has gone astray according to his religion, and Allah replied them that your companion is neither astray, neither errs,(according to what he says, i.e. his Religion).
So I didn't make a simple comprehensible verse into a complicate one just for a reason to suit my tenet! I just consider all verses of Qur'an and then translate a verse.

Aren't verse 53:1-4 confirming again that Prophet Muhammad was error free only because he received Wahi ( Qur'an ) from Almighty ALLAH ?

[053:001] By the Star when it goes down,-
[053:002] Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
[053:003] Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
[053:004] It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
[053:005] He was taught by one Mighty in Power,

1. 5:38 " [As for] the thief, the male and the female, amputate their hands in recompense for what they committed as a deterrent [punishment] from Allah. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.«38» ".

So what is the measure in which the hand should be amputated? Hadith answers this question.

2. Should all thieves be punished in this manner? Hadith answers.( These are some of requirements for aplying this punishment: 1.The theft should not have taken place during famines and droughts, when the people are suffering from hunger and possess no means, 2. The item that is stolen should possess a value of at least one-fourth of a dinar, 3. It should have been stolen from a secured place such as a house, a shop, internal pockets etc. and other requirements)

3. How is Ghusl? what part(s) of the body should be washed in Ghusl (4:43)? Hadith answers.

4. How is Tayammom? 4:43 "And if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and find no water, then seek clean earth and wipe over( tayammamoo ) a part of your faces and your hands [with it]" What part of face or hand must be wiped over with clean soil for Tayammom? Hadith answers.
and so on... .

This answers are teachings of Qur'an. Qur'an is a set of principles and true Hadiths are interpretation and teachings of these principles.

All those are in the Qur'an but not the way Shia/Sunni want , but the way Almighty ALLAH wants . It will be better if you may open a new thread to discuss these as it is another intersting topic that Shia/Sunni never able to understand in the Qur'an .

Dear Union, please read this verse more precisely: 4:59
"O (you who have believed)*, (obey Allah) and (obey the Messenger** and Owners of authority from you<minkum>***). And if you* disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger".

In this verse, there are three ones:
* Believers
** Messenger
*** The Owners of authority.(Ulul Amr)

This verse says that belivers must do all commands of Allah(Quran), Messenger( Sunnah ), and Ulul Amr(those who can know Quran and Sunnah precisly without any fault and mistake).
So If believers*(who were addressed in the first part of the verse by Allah) dispute in anything, they should reffer legislation to Qur'an and Sunnah(What Ulul Amr can know and understand it without any mistake, because the verse says we must do their commands, just as we must do infalliable Messenger commands) = they(believers*) should do the commands of Ulul Amr when Messenger is not with them, and also Ulul Amr order acording to Qur'an and Sunnah.

"Minkum" in the verse doesn't prove that Ulul Amr are some peoples like us, who aren't like Quran and Messenger infallible. "Minkum" indicates that Ulul Amr are believers and not Kafir, Jewish or Christian.
Please see this verse for minkum:
2:151 " ( O, believers) Just as We have sent among you a messenger from yourselves(minkum) reciting to you Our verses and purifying you and teaching you the Book and wisdom and teaching you that which you did not know. ".
Minkum in this verse is exactly like minkum in 4:59.

And about "If you dispute in anything, reffer it to Allah and Messenger".
' You' refers to the beliviers* who the first part of the verse addressed them and doesn't refer to Ulul Amr***.Indeed, This part of verse says that when believers dispute, they should resolve thier dispute with the laws of Quran(Allah) and sunnah(Messenger) and when Messenger or Ulul Amr order any command, they shold accept and obey it. The next verse confirm this interpretation:
4:60 " Have you not seen those who claim to have believed in what was revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you? They wish to refer legislation to Taghut(Who doesn't order according to Qur'an and Sunnah = who is not Messenger or Ulul Amr), while they were commanded to reject it; and Satan wishes to lead them far astray. ".

I didn't say that Ulil Amar are from Kafir rather what you said was right that they are from the believers . Also it is needed to understand that ' from you' ( Minkum) and 'If you dispute'( Fa In Tanzatum) - are the same group of people mixture of Ulil Amar and the believers . Hence the dispute is between Ulil Amar who propose the solution and the believers who bring the enquirers . Finally Ulil Amar are out of the equation because of this dispute and final equation prevails 'Obey ALLAH and obey Messenger'.

You have mentioned that: There was Wahi already.
Hence it isn't correct which you say: Wahi only = holy Book(e.g. Quran). Right?

The nature of wahi that was communicated to Moses/Aaron were quite different than the same to Prophet Muhammad . In Qur'an Almighty ALLAH says that HE , the Exalted directly talked with Prophet Moses and Prophet Moses literally listened to it .:

[20:13] "I have chosen you, so listen to what is being revealed.
[20:14] "I am GOD; there is no other god beside Me. You shall worship Me alone, and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) to remember Me.

[4:164] Messengers we have told you about, and messengers we never told you about. And GOD spoke to Moses directly.

[7:144] He said, "O Moses, I have chosen you, out of all the people, with My messages and by speaking to you. Therefore, take what I have given you and be appreciative."

And Aarron was also given the same authority as Prophet Moses had :

[028:035] He said: "We will certainly strengthen thy arm through thy brother, and invest you both with authority, so they shall not be able to touch you: with Our Sign shall ye triumph,- you two as well as those who follow you."

Therefore Prophet Moses and Prophet Aaron had two folds of revelation , one was in the form of direct converstaions and other one through physical tablets/books .

On the other hand Prophet Muhammad had only one type of revelation - through inspiration of Qur'an in the heart :

[002:097] Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by God's will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-

[026:192] And most surely this is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
[026:193] The Faithful Spirit has descended with it,[026:194] Upon your heart that you may be of the warners

Hence , there is a difference .

 

[Union]

66:1-5
1.Prophet, why do you prohibit [yourself from] what Allah has made lawful for you, seeking the approval of your wives? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
2.Allah has already ordained for you [Muslims] the dissolution of your oaths. And Allah is your protector, and He is the Knowing, the Wise.
3.And [remember] when the Prophet confided to one of his wives a statement; and when she informed [another] of it and Allah showed it to him, he made known part of it and ignored a part. And when he informed her about it, she said, "Who told you this?" He said, "I was informed by the Knowing, the Acquainted."
4.If you two [wives] repent to Allah, [it is best], for your hearts have deviated. But if you cooperate against him - then indeed Allah is his protector, and Gabriel and the righteous of the believers and the angels, moreover, are [his] assistants.
5.Perhaps his Lord, if he divorced you [all], would substitute for him wives better than you - submitting [to Allah], believing, devoutly obedient, repentant, worshipping, and traveling - [ones] previously married and virgins.

According to these verses, Prophet Mohammad(p.b.u.h.) prohibited a thing which was lawful for himself by oath to satisfy his wives.
This doing of Prophet was not wrong, because prohibiting a halal(lawful) thing with oath is allowable. But in the first verse, Allah for rebuking the wives of Prophet, because of forcing him to make a halal thing to haram for himself by oath( which was a lawful doing) , say to Mohammad(p.b.u.h.) to dissolution his oath.
Indeed, this verses(66:1-5) are just rebulks to Prophet wives.

Firstly, the first verse is solely addressed to Prophet Muhammad , whether you call it rebuking / warning / admonishing . It was not directed to his wives at all . The grammatical construction of the verse proves it very clearly :

[066:001] O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which God has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

O Prophet (ياايها النبي) , Masculine Noun ~ Prophet Muhammad .
You forbidden (تحرم ما) , Masculine singular verb ~ Action of Prophet Muhammad .
For you ( لك ) , Masculine singular pronoun ~ For Prophet Muhammad .
Seeking (تبتغي) , Masculine singular verb ~ Action of Prophet Muhammad .

Can you show me a verse where it is stated that a Halal thing/act ordained by GOD can be announced Haram by oath . Instead Almighty ALLAH considers this one of the horrendous acts , specially when it a concern to a Prophet :

[016:116] But say not – for any false thing that your tongues may put forth,- “This is lawful , and this is forbidden,” so as to ascribe false things to God. For those who ascribe false things to God, will never prosper.

The verse is revealed to correct Prophet only indicates that Almighty ALLAH didn't approve it . If it was allowed at all , then what was the point of this revelation ?

 

[mojtaba]

Aren't verse 53:1-4 confirming again that Prophet Muhammad was error free only because he received Wahi ( Qur'an ) from Almighty ALLAH ?

[053:001] By the Star when it goes down,-
[053:002] Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled.
[053:003] Nor does he say (aught) of (his own) Desire.
[053:004] It is no less than inspiration sent down to him:
[053:005] He was taught by one Mighty in Power,

No.

All those are in the Qur'an but not the way Shia/Sunni want , but the way Almighty ALLAH wants . It will be better if you may open a new thread to discuss these as it is another interesting topic that Shia/Sunni never able to understand in the Qur'an .

We obey the verses of Qur'an that say, obey Allah(Qur'an) and obey Messenger(Sunnah). You want merely to do Qur'an (according to your imagination) and do not consider another part of these verses of Qur'an that say ' obey Messenger(Sunnah), who is the teacher of Qur'an '.

I didn't say that Ulil Amar are from Kafir rather what you said was right that they are from the believers . Also it is needed to understand that ' from you' ( Minkum) and 'If you dispute'( Fa In Tanzatum) - are the same group of people mixture of Ulil Amar and the believers . Hence the dispute is between Ulil Amar who propose the solution and the believers who bring the enquirers . Finally Ulil Amar are out of the equation because of this dispute and final equation prevails 'Obey ALLAH and obey Messenger'.

1. 4:59 "O you who have believed, obey Allah(Qur'an) and obey the Messenger(Sunnah) and Owners of authority(Ulul Amr) from you, so if you dispute over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger[ and Ulul Amr, who are infallible and know Qur'an and Sunnah exactly and order according to Qur'an and Sunnah without any mistake(see the 3th verse for this interpretation ) = don't refer it to Taghut who do not order according to Qur'an and Sunnah(see the 2th verse)], if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result".

2.4:60 " Have you not seen those who claim to have believed in what was revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you? They wish to refer the disputes to Taghut, while they were commanded to reject it; and Satan wishes to lead them far astray. ".

3. 4:83" When there comes to them some matter touching (Public) safety or fear, they divulge it. If they had only referred it to the Messenger, or to owners of authority(Ulul Amr) from you, who investigate it from them(Messenger and Ulul Amr), certainly know the matter ".



'If you dispute in anything, refers it to Allah(Qur'an) and Messenger(Sunnah)' means ' O, believers, you must resolve your disputes by Qur'an and Sunnah which Messenger and Ulul Amr know both of them exactly and you must not resolve your disputes by Taghut( who doesn't order according to Qur'an and Sunnah )= by who is not Messenger or Ulul Amr.

Dear union, please read this again and pay more attention.

The nature of wahi that was communicated to Moses/Aaron were quite different than the same to Prophet Muhammad . In Qur'an Almighty ALLAH says that HE , the Exalted directly talked with Prophet Moses and Prophet Moses literally listened to it .:

[20:13] "I have chosen you, so listen to what is being revealed.
[20:14] "I am GOD; there is no other god beside Me. You shall worship Me alone, and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) to remember Me.

[4:164] Messengers we have told you about, and messengers we never told you about. And GOD spoke to Moses directly.

[7:144] He said, "O Moses, I have chosen you, out of all the people, with My messages and by speaking to you. Therefore, take what I have given you and be appreciative."

And Aarron was also given the same authority as Prophet Moses had :

[028:035] He said: "We will certainly strengthen thy arm through thy brother, and invest you both with authority, so they shall not be able to touch you: with Our Sign shall ye triumph,- you two as well as those who follow you."

Therefore Prophet Moses and Prophet Aaron had two folds of revelation , one was in the form of direct converstaions and other one through physical tablets/books .

On the other hand Prophet Muhammad had only one type of revelation - through inspiration of Qur'an in the heart :

[002:097] Say: Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel-for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by God's will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,-

[026:192] And most surely this is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
[026:193] The Faithful Spirit has descended with it,[026:194] Upon your heart that you may be of the warners

Hence , there is a difference .

All verses say that only Moses had this type of Wahi, not Aaron.

ِYou said : " On the other hand Prophet Muhammad had only one type of revelation - through inspiration of Qur'an in the heart ".

But holy Qur'an says another thing:
66:3 And when the Prophet(Mohammad) confided to one of his wives a statement; and when she informed [another] of it and Allah showed it to him, he(Prophet) made known part of it and ignored a part. And when he informed her about it, she said, "Who told you this?" He said, "I was informed by the Knowing, the Acquainted(Allah)"

this verse and other verses prove that Prophet Mohammad had direct conversations with Allah, too.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Wa Salam alayka wa Rahama wa Baraqa
This time I have no clue mate . Nothing in black and white for the Tabi'un . The golden chain of the Qur'an stops with the companions of the Prophet :
ALLAH , the Almighty ===> Archangel Gabriel ===> Prophet Muhammad ====> Companions of the Prophet ===> Preservation of the Qur'an accomplished for the next generations .

As salamu alaykum brother Union.
Jazakallah for your reply.
Now tell me
The Sahabas followed the teachings of Rasullah(SAW) and they were in the straight path.
You agree that they understood the Noble Quraan much better than us.
In your honest opinion did that the first generation of Muslims after the Sahabas strayed off the path so far as the teachings of Rasullah(SAW) is concerned?
In your honest opinion did the first generation not fully understand the Noble Quraan?
salaams

 

[zahra67]

salam.
i want to answer some of your questions.
1/ if only quran is sufficient for us,
please explane me only from the quran without taking help from hadith about our daily praying.
how many prostration should we perform?
how many rakat?
in every rakat what should recite?
how should we begin and end our prayers?
and also about haj pilgrimage our obligotary khoms zakat etc?
2/ about your evidence which you mentioned in chapter 18, verse 110,
i am a man like you this mean that i am not an angel without body.
i go in the earth and shops, i eat food and drink water and also i have family etc.
the holy quran also confirms that the prophet are like human beings for there body needs and they are not only spirit or they not angels!
for example in chapter forqan (chapter 25)
this does not against infalibility and immaculateness of prophet mohammad!
because if the prophet were one angel we told that we cant obey him.
because we are not angel and we need living the earth and have our needs for body!

3/ whats your idea if you think that we dont need hadith and quran is sufficient for us?
chapter 16, verse 44 and also its previous verse?

And We did not send before you any but men to whom We sent revelation-- so ask the followers of the Reminder if you do not know--

With clear arguments and scriptures; and We have revealed to you the Reminder that you may make clear to men what has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect.
whats your idea about in this regard in chapter 21, verse 7?

And We did not send before you any but men to whom We sent revelation, so ask the followers of the reminder if you do not know.
and about verse 7 of chapter 21?
And We did not send before you any but men to whom We sent revelation, so ask the followers of the reminder if you do not know.

and about hadith thaqalayn which its is authenticity is accepted between all muslim people?
which mentioned that if we want guidance, we should hole fast to thaqalayn which are weighty things and they dont separate from each other till the day of judgement?