Do you ever get the feeling there could be a higher power?

[AllanV]

I was talking to some one yesterday who says he is an atheist. But then he said he is aware there is some pattern to everything and something like a consciousness ordering everything we see.

As we talked we realized that we both get very short glimpses of something deeper in the mind but draw back from it. And of course if the short glimpse became longer and then complete the mind would enter an unknown place.

This is what the Bible is actually about. The natural mind is a barrier to entering. The natural mind is a place of familiar territory with all faults excepted. But there is a way passed and beyond and immortality is a possibility.

 

[Sha'irullah]

G'day

I was discussing a/theism with a friend of mine recently, who is an atheist. He admitted he sometimes 'feels' there could be a higher power, and/or wants there to be a 'greater purpose' in life, but then he does a reality check and moves on. He can understand how other people pursue those feelings, though.

I was surprised to hear he had those feelings sometimes.

Do other atheists experience the same?

I do not try to find ways to let my emotions override my logical thinking on purpose. I do not try to find existence for gods or a "higher power" I just let the chips fall where they may. Every time I play the game called life there is no card that has god written on it but instead the card theists play is the hand of the fool.

I would love for a god to exist and takes the sorrows of the world away and I would love to have somebody to guide me through my miseries, my falls, and my aspirations but the more I ponder on it the more it ceases to be real. Life is miserable and is not worth living without the comforts we create. Some comforts are just very dangerous and are create to mock reality. I guess this is why people need to have a god existent in their lives so often but knowing that it is not real does not comfort me, it does the opposite.

No gods exist and no "higher power" is even rationally conceivable. When you feel as if you are at the lowest end of your life you will grasp what can lift you up and of course superstitions are created to cater to this. But what point is there when none of these things are real? Would you rather grasp a harsh reality or a comforting lie?

Your emotions are not the truth. Gods are not the truth. Hope is not the truth. We create all of these things for ourselves out of necessity but we must make them real and must make them graspable. You can say this is where gods come into play. They are modeled after us and are relatable to us and this appeals to the masses.


. . . I am ranting again. I guess I best shut up

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Would you rather grasp a harsh reality or a comforting lie?

Yes, "truth or comfort?" is the way I'd put it.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Yes, "truth or comfort?" is the way I'd put it.

I hope my post didn't sound like drivel. I am uber depressed right now.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I hope my post didn't sound like drivel.

No, not at all.

 

[Deidre]

Yes, every day I think there could be a higher power of some sort. I happen to think the various boxes however, of which religions have placed him/it in, is insufficient at best.

I sometimes daydream about this, hoping there is a higher power. Something else who loves me more than my parents, Something else that is there for me, wanting the best for me, regardless of my belief. I hope for a higher power like that, one who is so powerful, so awesome...more than what we imagine. And that he doesn't require my belief to exist.

Such thoughts. If only...

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I am uber depressed right now.

Here is something to cheer you up:

 

[AllanV]

Here is something to cheer you up:

That's not Moses, that looks like ........ Charlton Heston ....... wow.

 

[Deidre]

lmao!!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I happen to think the various boxes however, of which religions have placed him/it in, is insufficient at best.

There are all sorts of alternatives to monotheism though, like deism, pantheism, polytheism. And all sorts of other spiritual paths which aren't based on these various conceptions of God. Why not do some exploring? There's all kinds of interesting ideas and people on this forum.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No gods exist and no "higher power" is even rationally conceivable. When you feel as if you are at the lowest end of your life you will grasp what can lift you up and of course superstitions are created to cater to this. But what point is there when none of these things are real? Would you rather grasp a harsh reality or a comforting lie?

In my experience, over the long haul, reality ends up being less harsh than we worry it will be, and lies end up not being comforts.

Yes, every day I think there could be a higher power of some sort. I happen to think the various boxes however, of which religions have placed him/it in, is insufficient at best.

I sometimes daydream about this, hoping there is a higher power. Something else who loves me more than my parents, Something else that is there for me, wanting the best for me, regardless of my belief. I hope for a higher power like that, one who is so powerful, so awesome...more than what we imagine. And that he doesn't require my belief to exist.

Such thoughts. If only...

It might not be quite what you're talking about, but there's one thing that might be close: the collective human spirit.

Humanity as a whole has the potential to love you and want the best for you. It has more power than we can imagine. The trick is motivating humanity (or a small part of it, at least) toward the goals you think are important.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Everyone is either a theist or an atheist. A theist or an atheist may also be an agnostic (if they also claim that the existence or non-existence of deities is unknowable).

AFAIK, nobody's told you that you can't be an agnostic.

YOU just did. You said everyone is either a theist or an atheist. I am not. No matter how you define the word. (And Huxley was not the first, nor the only, to discuss the meaning of the term agnostic and skeptic.)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

YOU just did. You said everyone is either a theist or an atheist.

I also said that a theist or an atheist can also be an agnostic.

I am not. No matter how you define the word.

Everyone is one or the other. It's unfortunate if coming to terms with this causes issues for you.

(And Huxley was not the first, nor the only, to discuss the meaning of the term agnostic and skeptic.)

Huxley coined the term "agnostic", so if somebody used it beforehand, time travel is involved.

 

[Willamena]

Everyone is one or the other. It's unfortunate if coming to terms with this causes issues for you.

Or fortunate that they can reason, as the case may be.

 

[apophenia]

I used 'higher power' deliberately for its vagueness.

And I'll be honest, I don't understand the rest of your post, or the one following it. :-/

OK. I'll do my best to explain ...

I began by suggesting that 'higher power' could mean something other than typical 'god' ideas.
I went on to say that the usual explanation for sentience, self-awareness, from those who identify as materialist-atheist, is that awareness is an emergent property. i.e. awareness is a property which matter does not have, but which 'emerged' as a result of complexity.

My point is that other properties could also emerge.

Since sentient matter (us) is a huge leap from mindless matter, I postulated that other 'emergent properties' could be a huge leap from our form of sentience. Or possibly there are other properties which are nothing like sentience.

I suggested that these properties may be as radical, compared to human consciousness as human consciousness is compared to dust.

There may be emergent properties, whether on earth, elsewhere, or even everywhere, which are simply beyond human comprehension. ( Blasphemy ! )

Or, properties which are for whatever reason not within the purview of some or all entities.

Atheist-materialists are quite happy with the notion that conscious awareness resulted from complex interaction of molecules, via abiogenesis.

What if there are emergent properties, even perhaps variations of consciousness, on a quantum level, for example ?

 

[Treks]

Thank you for taking the time to explain. Some food for thought there

 

[apophenia]

This is a moment when you stop being an atheist, while not becoming a theist.

It is one or the other mate.

Is it ?

If you checked out the Hinduism DIR, you would find various threads discussing advaita, and whether it is theist or atheist.

The term turiya points to the crucial issue.

There are atheist hindus, who do not deny the realisation called turiya, Turiya is called 'the Lord' by advaitins who identify as theist, yet is not at all like a theistic notion.

 

[apophenia]

Thank you for taking the time to explain. Some food for thought there

You are welcome. I'm glad you think so.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I began by suggesting that 'higher power' could mean something other than typical 'god' ideas.

My instinct is that "god" ideas are far too crude anyway - if there is something else it's much more subtle. It's also worth observing that biologically our senses are quite limited in range, and that usually we experience only a fraction of what is "out there". Also that consciousness is still poorly understood.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Probably. I don't call it a higher power. I think people want to feel "whole" in life. Their inner nature wants to be quenched so they have a purpose to live. Since that motivation and want is better than having grands of chocolate, I can see why its higher than anything else: In that respect, yes. I do believe in a higher power or purpose than just eating chocolate all my life.

If you mean believing in God as a Being, no. I think when people hear "higher power" they think of a Creator or being. It could just be they want a better purpose in living but just haven't reached the cross roads yet.

G'day

I was discussing a/theism with a friend of mine recently, who is an atheist. He admitted he sometimes 'feels' there could be a higher power, and/or wants there to be a 'greater purpose' in life, but then he does a reality check and moves on. He can understand how other people pursue those feelings, though.

I was surprised to hear he had those feelings sometimes.

Do other atheists experience the same?