Do you expect the President to tell the truth tonight?

[Milton Platt]

Tonight (January 8th, 2019) the President is going to address the nation.

The question is fairly simple. Do you expect him to tell the truth? I am not talking about minor errors of detail, but do you expect the address to be overall truthful?

I expect many people will tell me this is a stupid question, because Trump always lies. But the is the President of the United States making a major address about an important policy area. Not a three year old lying about taking a cookie. We can’t just laugh it off.

I also expect a lot of people to justify it by claiming all politicians lie. But we have never been in a situation like this where the majority of people fully expect the President to completely lie about a major policy. You can’t pretend this is normal.

I expect very few people will even try to make a credible case that we can expect to hear the truth.

I predict he will be absolutely truthful up until the time his lips start moving.

 

[fantome profane]

No one?
Illegal Immigration: Yes, Democrats Are Now The Party Of Open Borders

"But it came as the "abolish ICE" movement took off among Democrats in the wake of open-borders socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's surprise victory in the New York primaries. She's since called for protesters to occupy ICE offices around the country. The head of the Democratic National Committee, Tom Perez, labeled her the future of the Democratic Party.
The vote also came after eight Democrats co-sponsored an actual abolish-ICE bill. "

Abolishing ICE does not mean open borders. Logically it would mean a return to the situation before ICE was formed, which was fairly recently.

No one is proposing open borders.

 

[pearl]

That's been decided? Hope you're right.

Presuming that it on the level of the 'state of the union' type, that's the usual.

 

[pearl]

Yeah me too. It'll be all emotional diatribes and trying to character assassinate Trump.

What character?

Democrats in Washington don't have that capacity to work out the actual issues.

The only thing Trump has worked out is the tax break for his own ilk. Beyond that he's a child throwing a tantrum. He'll certainly keep the fact checkers busy.

 

[LuisDantas]

No one?
Illegal Immigration: Yes, Democrats Are Now The Party Of Open Borders

"But it came as the "abolish ICE" movement took off among Democrats in the wake of open-borders socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's surprise victory in the New York primaries. She's since called for protesters to occupy ICE offices around the country. The head of the Democratic National Committee, Tom Perez, labeled her the future of the Democratic Party.
The vote also came after eight Democrats co-sponsored an actual abolish-ICE bill. "

I take it that you mean it?

Because clearly it is all just show and smoke.

 

[Revoltingest]

Abolishing ICE does not mean open borders. Logically it would mean a return to the situation before ICE was formed, which was fairly recently.

No one is proposing open borders.

If ICE were abolished, their job would fall to DHS (having jurisdiction over ICE).
I assume that those who want ICE gone, wouldn't want DHS assuming that role.
Correct?
If so, how do ICE's opponents imagine domestic enforcement of immigration law?

 

[Sunstone]

I'm more interested in the Dem response that will immediately follow his talk.

I expect Trump's speech to be a farce. The Dems response might also be one -- given the Dems' ability to shoot themselves in the foot -- but like you, I think it will be more interesting than Trump's speech.

 

[fantome profane]

If ICE is abolished, their job would fall to DHS (which has jurisdiction over ICE).
I assume that those who want ICE gone, wouldn't want DHS assuming that role.
Correct?
If so, how do ICE's opponents imagine domestic enforcement of immigration law?

DHS is also a relatively recent development. It is my understanding that this job was once done by the department of immigration and naturalization,

My point however remains, abolishing ICE does not mean open borders. And no one is calling for open borders.

 

[Revoltingest]

DHS is also a relatively recent development. It is my understanding that this job was once done by the department of immigration and naturalization,

My point however remains, abolishing ICE does not mean open borders. And no one is calling for open borders.

It's still not clear what the intent is behind abolishing ICE.
If DHS sheds the role too, & INS no longer exists, then
who is to enforce immigration law?
Ref....
Immigration and Naturalization Service - Wikipedia

Having no domestic enforcement agency doesn't mean "open borders"
entirely. But it would mean that non-citizens who gain entry legally or
illegally would effectively function as citizens, eg, NYC apparently soon
offering free health services to illegals.
Is this a goal, an unintended consequence, or something opposed but
without an as yet proposed enforcement mechanism?

 

[Stanyon]

Abolishing ICE does not mean open borders. Logically it would mean a return to the situation before ICE was formed, which was fairly recently.
No one is proposing open borders.

I take it that you mean it?
Because clearly it is all just show and smoke.

Are you claiming that the abolish ICE and the open border movement does not go hand in hand? I'd say if that were true then Adolf Hitler has nothing to do with neo- Nazis.

 

[LuisDantas]

Are you claiming that the abolish ICE and the open border movement does not go hand in hand? I'd say if that were true then Adolf Hitler has nothing to do with neo- Nazis.

You know what? Have a good night.

It is now very clear that you are not interested in the facts, nor in honest discussion.

 

[Stanyon]

you are not interested in the facts, nor in honest discussion.

I gave clear cut examples in word and pictures supporting my position, goodnight.

 

[LuisDantas]

Examples, certainly.

 

[Sunstone]

Actually, Trumps biggest problem is that he does 'tell the truth,' and nobody likes it.
He's got a very big mouth and he says precisely what he thinks. I'm not sure he has a filter between his brain and his twitter account. So..nobody likes it. Not the Dems, not the Republicans. He's really a lousy politician.

I'm still trying to decide whether that's a bad thing or not.

 

[lukethethird]

Do you expect the President to tell the truth tonight?


Will his lips be moving?

 

[Willamena]

'In his first prime-time address from the Oval Office of his presidency, Trump said, "People build walls not because they hate the people on the outside but because the love the people on the inside."' (Trump makes his case for border wall in address to nation | CBC News)

Ah! That must be why all those children are still in cages at the border.

 

[Watchmen]

He told the truth. Very compelling! Build the wall!

 

[LuisDantas]

Now we know.

He did not. And his lack of shame is as sharp as ever.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I expect him to exaggerate about what is as any politician in power would do or the CEO of a company. If you are running something you generally have to empathize the good and limit or ignore as much of the bad as possible, I mean if you want to keep your job. I expect Trump to tell the truth about what he wants. Don't really know if he'll get any of it.

I wouldn't trust him on facts. He's not really a fact originated guy. I don't know if I'd call that lying or making stuff up he thinks might be true. I mean if he believe something is true and states it as a truth, does it make him a liar or just badly informed?

Oh, wait I was supposed to make a credible case that we can expect to hear the truth.

We will hear the truth that Trump wants to exist. I think that about as credible a case as I can make.

When Trump states something that is not factually true, do you think he knows that it is a lie?

Well, George Costanza says that it's not a lie, if you believe it.

 

[leibowde84]

Actually, Trumps biggest problem is that he does 'tell the truth,' and nobody likes it.
He's got a very big mouth and he says precisely what he thinks. I'm not sure he has a filter between his brain and his twitter account. So..nobody likes it. Not the Dems, not the Republicans. He's really a lousy politician.

I'm still trying to decide whether that's a bad thing or not.

Saying what he thinks is one thing. And, sure, there are some things people merely don't agree with. But, what about the countless times he lies to the public? He lies on twitter and on TV practically every day, and it is in very obvious ways. And, I'm talking about facts, not opinions. He says things that he knows are not true.