Do you expect the President to tell the truth tonight?

[metis]

You should have heard former Republican spokesman Steve Schmidt last night tear into Trump's utterly dishonesty and "clearly racist" presentation, citing also the low-level of even basic morality by Trump's throwing brown-skinned children into cages in cases whereas it's simply not warranted and lacks any legal and moral justification. Some other former Republicans chimed in against Trump's lies and basic lack of empathy, such as David Gergen and George Will, and Schmidt concluded that the single most dangerous condition today here in the United States is Trump himself.

BTW, both just before and after his presentation, Trump's "Make America Great Again" committee used the presentation as a fundraiser, which is unethical under the agreement with the networks as it was much more a campaign presentation than a serious statement of a "national emergency". When and if he asks for more prime time on the networks, I think they'll likely say no unless it's a clear-cut emergency.

 

[dianaiad]

Saying what he thinks is one thing. And, sure, there are some things people merely don't agree with. But, what about the countless times he lies to the public? He lies on twitter and on TV practically every day, and it is in very obvious ways. And, I'm talking about facts, not opinions. He says things that he knows are not true.

Yeah, yeah...and Obama and Clinton never lied?

I don't expect truth from any politician.

The difference is that with most politicians, they are so good at fudging that nobody catches them, and their supporters don't care...they just slide right along behind the liars as if they were declaring scripture from on High.

There's just something about getting elected to an office that utterly destroys the truth gene in people.

Trump...doesn't seem, yet, to have figured out the method of doing that.

 

[ecco]

Tonight (January 8th, 2019) the President is going to address the nation.

The question is fairly simple. Do you expect him to tell the truth?

I didn't. He didn't.

 

[ecco]

BTW, both just before and after his presentation, Trump's "Make America Great Again" committee used the presentation as a fundraiser, which is unethical under the agreement with the networks as it was much more a campaign presentation than a serious statement of a "national emergency". When and if he asks for more prime time on the networks, I think they'll likely say no unless it's a clear-cut emergency.

That was being discussed this morning on CNN.

 

[esmith]

I have only one point to add to this discussion:
'How About That?': College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed for Border Security

 

[ecco]

I have only one point to add to this discussion:
'How About That?': College Students Shocked to Hear Hillary, Obama & Schumer Pushed for Border Security

Are you intentionally conflating "border security" and "The Wall that Mexico was going to Pay for"?

 

[metis]

The vast majority of Democrats, including the leadership, are not for open borders and they believe "the Wall" is a huge waste of money and also less effective outside of rural areas whereas sensors, more vehicles and drones, and more personnel would work better and at lest cost.

 

[esmith]

Are you intentionally conflating "border security" and "The Wall that Mexico was going to Pay for"?

The vast majority of Democrats, including the leadership, are not for open borders and they believe "the Wall" is a huge waste of money and also less effective outside of rural areas whereas sensors, more vehicles and drones, and more personnel would work better and at lest cost.

Do you not both agree (along with others) that a physical barrier does work in certain areas?
Have either of you been to the border with Mexico? I have and have seen the effectiveness of physical barriers restricting crossing of the border. Example is the Yuma AZ area.
I also have been to areas that the "barrier" can be the inhospitable land in itself.
I have also been to areas that the border is a joke. Zapata TX area

Yes, effective physical barriers cause those trying to cross the border illegally to attempt to cross where the likelihood of them loosing their life is high. But that is not the U.S.'s problem, we did not ask them to break the law. However there are those that do so for monetary or some convoluted reason.

Yes more non-physical barriers are needed, but physical barriers are needed to assist the non-physical barriers and the job that Border Control Agents have to do.

As far as "Mexico will pay". Well I don't think they are going to actually hand over money to do so; However there are other avenues that could contribute to Mexico paying.

 

[metis]

Have either of you been to the border with Mexico?

I drove the area in Arizona from below Tombstone to Nogales along the main road closest to the border.

As far as "Mexico will pay". Well I don't think they are going to actually hand over money to do so; However there are other avenues that could contribute to Mexico paying.

Then let us know when all those pesos arrive, directly or indirectly, so Trump can build his wall, especially since there is not one word in the revised agreement that allots this magical money making an appearance.

So, until then,...

 

[leibowde84]

Yeah, yeah...and Obama and Clinton never lied?

I don't expect truth from any politician.

The difference is that with most politicians, they are so good at fudging that nobody catches them, and their supporters don't care...they just slide right along behind the liars as if they were declaring scripture from on High.

There's just something about getting elected to an office that utterly destroys the truth gene in people.

Trump...doesn't seem, yet, to have figured out the method of doing that.

He lies about such obvious things though. I think it is just because he isn't that intelligent. There are tons of successful people, especially in sales, that just aren't that smart. And, Trump started off with tens of millions of dollars from his Dad, so it is arguably true that he isn't even that successful.

For example, Trump said that he never claimed Mexico would directly pay for the wall. Yet, during the campaign, he said that Mexico would make a one-time payment of $5-10 Billion for the wall. There is no doubt that was a lie.

 

[leibowde84]

Yeah, yeah...and Obama and Clinton never lied?

I don't expect truth from any politician.

The difference is that with most politicians, they are so good at fudging that nobody catches them, and their supporters don't care...they just slide right along behind the liars as if they were declaring scripture from on High.

There's just something about getting elected to an office that utterly destroys the truth gene in people.

Trump...doesn't seem, yet, to have figured out the method of doing that.

Clinton and Obama, like all other presidents, lied from time to time. I openly admit that. But, Trump has taken it to a new level. Recently he has been lying in writing on a daily basis. I never saw that from Obama or Clinton.

 

[dianaiad]

Clinton and Obama, like all other presidents, lied from time to time. I openly admit that. But, Trump has taken it to a new level. Recently he has been lying in writing on a daily basis. I never saw that from Obama or Clinton.

I did.

got tired of it.

stopped paying attention to 'em.

 

[leibowde84]

I did.

got tired of it.

stopped paying attention to 'em.

Can you give me 10 examples from each? I could give you 10 from Trump in the last month.

 

[SkepticThinker]

He lies about such obvious things though. I think it is just because he isn't that intelligent. There are tons of successful people, especially in sales, that just aren't that smart. And, Trump started off with tens of millions of dollars from his Dad, so it is arguably true that he isn't even that successful.

For example, Trump said that he never claimed Mexico would directly pay for the wall. Yet, during the campaign, he said that Mexico would make a one-time payment of $5-10 Billion for the wall. There is no doubt that was a lie.

Not just once, either. It was over and over and over again. He even had the crowds chanting it.

 

[dianaiad]

Can you give me 10 examples from each? I could give you 10 from Trump in the last month.

What part of 'stopped paying attention' slipped your attention?

I don't care.

I have figured out three things:

All politicians lie.
Their supporters will back them to the hilt.
their critics will lie like rugs to destroy them.

None of 'em give a hoot about what the country needs.

To be honest, I'm more likely to judge a politician's credibility..not by what s/he says, but by how desperately the opposition wants him/her OUT and what they are willing to accuse him/her of, and what they are willing to put the rest of us through in order to get rid of whoever.

So right this minute I'm not happy with the left.

I'm not happy with the right, either, but I do think that the left is being a bit more nasty and dishonest.

 

[ecco]

I'm not happy with the right, either, but I do think that the left is being a bit more nasty and dishonest.

More nasty than your president who:
Denigrated John McCain
Denigrated a handicapped reporter
Denigrated Ted Cruz
Denigrated Jeb Bush
Denigrated John Kelly
Denigrated a Silver Star family

More dishonest than your president? Seriously?

 

[dianaiad]

More nasty than your president who:
Denigrated John McCain
Denigrated a handicapped reporter
Denigrated Ted Cruz
Denigrated Jeb Bush
Denigrated John Kelly
Denigrated a Silver Star family

More dishonest than your president? Seriously?

yes.

I have...just as an example...seen the difference between demonstrations held by the right and the left.

In my town.

When the 'left' held a demonstration, police cars were overturned and defecated upon. Property was destroyed to the point that years later, the city is still attempting to restore the park to usefulness. Millions of dollars of damages.

When the 'right' held a demonstration, they left the park in better shape than they found it.

Has the 'right' denigrated some people on the left? Sure. there are some jerks there.

But the left goes considerably further than that. As far as I can tell, the right stops at words.

The left does not.

 

[ecco]

I have...just as an example...seen the difference between demonstrations held by the right and the left.

In my town.

When the 'left' held a demonstration, police cars were overturned and defecated upon. Property was destroyed to the point that years later, the city is still attempting to restore the park to usefulness. Millions of dollars of damages.

So this is something that allegedly happened years ago - before Trump. It is something that was allegedly done by the "left".

Can you be more vague.

But the left goes considerably further than that. As far as I can tell, the right stops at words.

The left does not.

I guess you forgot about Charlottesville where a member of the right crashed his car into a crowd and killed a woman.

And...

Video: Black Protester Sucker-Punched at Trump Rally

A protester at a Wednesday evening Donald Trump rally in North Carolina was sucker-punched by one of the candidate’s supporters, multiple videos show. Rakeem Jones, who is black, was being led out of the rally by sheriff’s officials when a pony-tailed white man in a cowboy hat clearly reached out and punched him in the face. Jones—the victim of the assault—was then detained and handcuffed by police.​

 

[dianaiad]

So this is something that allegedly happened years ago - before Trump. It is something that was allegedly done by the "left".

Can you be more vague.






I guess you forgot about Charlottesville where a member of the right crashed his car into a crowd and killed a woman.

And...

Video: Black Protester Sucker-Punched at Trump Rally

A protester at a Wednesday evening Donald Trump rally in North Carolina was sucker-punched by one of the candidate’s supporters, multiple videos show. Rakeem Jones, who is black, was being led out of the rally by sheriff’s officials when a pony-tailed white man in a cowboy hat clearly reached out and punched him in the face. Jones—the victim of the assault—was then detained and handcuffed by police.​

That's all you have?

(snort)

Two examples?

and you had to go back how many years?

.......and I notice that you didn't mention WHY Rakeem Jones was being led out of the rally.

did you forget that part?

No sir.

I have seen far too many demonstrations from the left, BY the left... I'm not impressed by you.

 

[ecco]

That's all you have?
Two examples?
and you had to go back how many years?

Two examples in two years, just off the top of my head and because I didn't want to waste too much time.

.......and I notice that you didn't mention WHY Rakeem Jones was being led out of the rally.
did you forget that part?

So you justify a citizen sucker punching a person while he is defenseless in the custody of the police. That's violence and cowardice.

So you justify a RightWinger driving a car into a crowd to maim and kill as many liberals as possible. I'll bet you are horrified when a Muslim drives his car into a crowd of people to maim and kill. Hypocrisy is not beneath you, is it?

I have seen far too many demonstrations from the left, BY the left... I'm not impressed by you.

You criticize me for posting only two examples. You have posted none.

So if posting two examples gets me a rating of "not impressed" then posting none must get you a rating of "way less than not impressed". Actually, you do impress me. You impress me as the type of person who posts BS and then cannot back it up. A lot of you Ultra Conservative Ultra Religious types do that a lot.