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Do you feel it's worthwhile to defend your faith?

Unification

Well-Known Member
If you are following a particular spiritual path or religion, do you feel the need to correct those who apeak (falsely?) against it?

I have debated from both sides against/for religions before and wondering if you don't bother or if at times, you feel the need to defend your faith? I'm of the opinion that there are times it can be a good healthy exchange and other times, when you are wasting your time.

Just wondering. :)
We are all one in the Lord. No matter what religion, which they all are silly and outward... We all have a spirit of life, blood, and human bodies. The goal in all religions are to crucify our egos and live by the Spirit which is love, kindness, peace, unity. Arguing is silly and in vain. We all strive for higher spiritual nature, and spiritual Union and marriage with God.... All scriptures are speaking of inside the human body. The spiritual conscious raised in a human is not a physical man in the flesh, it's a spiritual resurection and all religions have different terms for it. Christians are Jesus Christ, etc. Muslims, Jews, Christians.... We are all one and have the same exact goal.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
If you are following a particular spiritual path or religion, do you feel the need to correct those who apeak (falsely?) against it?

I have debated from both sides against/for religions before and wondering if you don't bother or if at times, you feel the need to defend your faith? I'm of the opinion that there are times it can be a good healthy exchange and other times, when you are wasting your time.

Just wondering. :)
Fighting over holy land in the Middle East. There is nothing holy about land. The temple, church, house of the Lord, tabernacle, mosque.... Sanctuary, ark... They all dwell INSIDE of a human. . Where the Lord dwells. Peace to all... We are all one and share the same creator. We must all crucify our egos and pride and mans will and start doing Gods will.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Dunno if it's worth it, but usually if someone doesn't answer my question I take it to mean I was right.
 

Baladas

An Págánach
Not really, at least not when it comes to my metaphysical views. I only defend my moral views when I feel it is necessary, hoping that doing so will promote peace and understanding.
 

RAYYAN

Proud Muslim
If you are following a particular spiritual path or religion, do you feel the need to correct those who apeak (falsely?) against it?

I have debated from both sides against/for religions before and wondering if you don't bother or if at times, you feel the need to defend your faith? I'm of the opinion that there are times it can be a good healthy exchange and other times, when you are wasting your time.

Just wondering. :)
My faith doesn't need any defence. but my part is to explain the miss conception about it
 
I think it's never a good idea to allow a false idea to stand if you are in a position to correct it. Here, I'm talking about factual errors. For example, if someone says, "The Bahá'í Faith is a sect of Islam that exists only in Iran" in my hearing, I'd feel duty bound to say, "No, it's not." And offer proof if necessary.

As it happens, I spend a significant amount of time defending religion in general from occasionally virulent and bizarre attacks on it, both online and in what we like to call the Real World. Yes, there are certainly haters of religion in general or haters of specific religions who are so dogmatic in their thinking that they will spew hateful rhetoric and refuse to engage on a rational level. I've had the experience numerous times in which the person I was having a dialogue with made ridiculous assumptions about my beliefs based on God knows what and refused to listen when I tried to correct them.

An example is when one fellow told me that I believed the world was 6,000 years old and that science was evil just because I said I believed in God (this was on an atheist blog and the fellow had seemed well-educated and intelligent up to this point). When I said that the was wrong on both counts and that my faith taught that science and religion are in harmony, that faith and reason went hand in hand and that evolution was the mechanism by which life has come to this pass on the planet, he simply didn't know what to do with that information. It could not be so, he insisted. So, I quoted from the Bahá'í Writings: "Scientific knowledge is the highest attainment upon the human plane, for science is the discoverer of realities." — Abdu’l-Bahá, Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 138 (23 May 1912, Cambridge, MA)

At this point, the fellow abandoned rational discourse, began peppering me with cherry-picked verses from the Old Testament and Quran, repeatedly told me I was "escamoting" (which is a fancy way of saying I was dodging his assertions—I wasn't dodging, I was just saying, "No, I really don't believe that") and began psychoanalyzing me and telling me what I really believed, meanwhile intentionally mangling the word Bahá'í (Bahaooey, etc). All my attempts to re-engage in a rational way were ignored or mocked.

My husband asked why I continued talking to this guy when it was clear he wasn't actually hearing what I was saying. My answer: I wasn't really talking to him once I realized he was dogmatically compelled to explain me away. I was talking to the people who were monitoring the dialogue and who occasionally weighed in, or sent me private messages in support of the calm, even loving way I was handling this guy's mockery and condescension, or friended me in social media or began following my faith and reason blog (Commongroundgroup.net) because of it. These people became my friends because of this fellow's animosity.

That guy may not ever come to realize that dogmatism is not limited to religious people or that it isn't necessary to be dogmatic to be religious. He may never realize that there's a difference between what a religion teaches and what it's followers do. He may always believe that all religion is superstitious, Bronze Age nonsense. But those other folks, the ones who were listening and watching came away with a completely different impression of religion and its potential relationship with reason than the one they went in with.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
My point is that if people are truly certain and confident that their beliefs are sound and solid, then they shouldn't feel threatened by nor a need to protect their beliefs from critique, scrutiny, or even ridicule.

Very fair, to a point. It is, unfortunately, naive to suppose that critique, scrutiny, and especially ridicule is necessarily innocuous. People do these things as a way of harming other people; words are arguably the greatest weapon of mass destruction. I find it hard to fault anyone who is threatened by such things. Campaigns of words against others have altered many a thing in the history of humans.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Very fair, to a point. It is, unfortunately, naive to suppose that critique, scrutiny, and especially ridicule is necessarily innocuous. People do these things as a way of harming other people; words are arguably the greatest weapon of mass destruction. I find it hard to fault anyone who is threatened by such things. Campaigns of words against others have altered many a thing in the history of humans.

How does being critical of a belief harm anyone who happens to hold that belief? People do tend to intertwine their egos and identities with their beliefs, but the only thing that is "harmed" is pride, and only of they allow it. And again, if your beliefs are sound and solid, they serve as an inpenetrable armor against "word weapons".
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
How does being critical of a belief harm anyone who happens to hold that belief? People do tend to intertwine their egos and identities with their beliefs, but the only thing that is "harmed" is pride, and only of they allow it. And again, if your beliefs are sound and solid, they serve as an inpenetrable armor against "word weapons".

Words very easily do harm. Are you one of those people who believes in the adage "sticks and stones may break our bones, but words can never hurt us?" I sure as blazes ain't.

This isn't an issue of ego and pride, it's about how others are going to be treating you. That words are frequently used as weapons has so many abundant examples that I'd think their possible harm would be self-evident and obvious. From campaigns of disinformation to slanderous gossip, words are used as a weapon of destruction far more regularly in our culture than physical weapons, and are present as an underlying cause when such physical weapons are used. As we've made the use of physical weapons taboo, folks are left with words.

To think words are somehow less damaging or that self-esteem somehow protects you from things like slander and defamation is, IMHO, naive. If anything, it strikes me as arrogantly prideful and egotistic to ignore that. "I'm invulnerable because I'm confident in my beliefs!" Yeah, well, in the mean time you just lost that custody battle for your kid because you practice a religion that people slander and defame or have a poor opinion of.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Words very easily do harm. Are you one of those people who believes in the adage "sticks and stones may break our bones, but words can never hurt us?" I sure as blazes ain't.

This isn't an issue of ego and pride, it's about how others are going to be treating you. That words are frequently used as weapons has so many abundant examples that I'd think their possible harm would be self-evident and obvious. From campaigns of disinformation to slanderous gossip, words are used as a weapon of destruction far more regularly in our culture than physical weapons, and are present as an underlying cause when such physical weapons are used. As we've made the use of physical weapons taboo, folks are left with words.

To think words are somehow less damaging or that self-esteem somehow protects you from things like slander and defamation is, IMHO, naive. If anything, it strikes me as arrogantly prideful and egotistic to ignore that. "I'm invulnerable because I'm confident in my beliefs!" Yeah, well, in the mean time you just lost that custody battle for your kid because you practice a religion that people slander and defame or have a poor opinion of.

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about the critique, scrutiny, and lampooning of ideologies and belief systems. Nothing I've said had anything to do with personal attacks, harrassent, or slander against actual people, so your tangent isn't really relevant toward my point.
 

Sundance

pursuing the Divine Beloved
Premium Member
Unfortunately not all religious movements in the world today would extend you the same courtesy. I think your tolerance may be misguided.


I guess so, but love and respect are never misguided....even if not returned.
 

idea

Question Everything
I think everyone here is here to try and understand and be understood - but it's not necessary to make a holy war out of it, all that is required is polite, friendly, conversation.
 

Marsh

Active Member
Marsh said:
Unfortunately not all religious movements in the world today would extend you the same courtesy. I think your tolerance may be misguided.

I guess so, but love and respect are never misguided....even if not returned.
Unless it costs you dearly. I am thinking in terms of ISIS, or Boko Haram. I don't need to spell out the atrocities they are both capable of committing. In the face of certain kinds of threats survival may necessitate other types of responses.
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
I think everyone here is here to try and understand and be understood - but it's not necessary to make a holy war out of it, all that is required is polite, friendly, conversation.

And the ability to walk away, if someone disagrees. I don't understand why people feel the need to wage war against those who disagree with their beliefs. Unfortunately, in some religions, how well a person 'witnesses' and 'recruits' for the faith, is how their own faith is measured.
 

Sundance

pursuing the Divine Beloved
Premium Member
Unless it costs you dearly. I am thinking in terms of ISIS, or Boko Haram. I don't need to spell out the atrocities they are both capable of committing. In the face of certain kinds of threats survival may necessitate other types of responses.

Even if If should lose my own life, I will never turn my back on love.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about the critique, scrutiny, and lampooning of ideologies and belief systems. Nothing I've said had anything to do with personal attacks, harrassent, or slander against actual people, so your tangent isn't really relevant toward my point.

Functionally speaking, there's often not much difference between addressing ideas and addressing people given how much ideas form the basis of personal and social identities. If you choose to believe otherwise or that this is somehow not relevant, so be it.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Functionally speaking, there's often not much difference between addressing ideas and addressing people given how much ideas form the basis of personal and social identities. If you choose to believe otherwise or that this is somehow not relevant, so be it.
So how do you question religious or cultural beliefs that, as an example, advocate the persecution of homosexuals or the oppression of women without "hurting the feelings" or "harming the image" of those who hold and promote such beliefs?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
So how do you question religious or cultural beliefs that, as an example, advocate the persecution of homosexuals or the oppression of women without "hurting the feelings" or "harming the image" of those who hold and promote such beliefs?

You do what you want. Generally speaking, it is wise to speak criticisms with caution, and not to be a $#@% about it. I call for basic civil courtesy and common decency in the name of preserving respect, tolerance, and peace amongst our fellows. It's really not all that complicated. None of that means you can't still do what you want and speak your mind. Much of it is about how we say what we say, not what is said.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
You do what you want. Generally speaking, it is wise to speak criticisms with caution, and not to be a $#@% about it. I call for basic civil courtesy and common decency in the name of preserving respect, tolerance, and peace amongst our fellows. It's really not all that complicated. None of that means you can't still do what you want and speak your mind. Much of it is about how we say what we say, not what is said.

Sure, that's fine, but how does this relate to my points?
 
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