Do You Find Ietsism a Likely and/or Plausible Belief?

[osgart]

Baha'is believe that God is a being, but he is an unlimited being, so it is no problem for Him to maintain everything in existence.

Everything but this existence! This must be the exception to the rule. I know of a tiny bit of cosmology enough to know this vast void is physically brutal and most of it unfriendly to life to say the least.

I'd prefer an existence that maintains itself. Oh well! Lol.

 

[sew.excited73]

Everything but this existence! This must be the exception to the rule. I know of a tiny bit of cosmology enough to know this vast void is physically brutal and most of it unfriendly to life to say the least.

I'd prefer an existence that maintains itself. Oh well! Lol.

Have you heard of Dolores Cannon?
According to her research, this world is indeed the exception to the rule, as her ‘informants’ have told her we are the only place with ‘free will’ and therefore this is the most difficult existence and we are very brave for being here at this time in history, but many of us actually volunteered to come here now to help put things to rights.

 

[Trailblazer]

lol - I would like to know… but I have a feeling I have to die before I will know, and I am not quite ready for that just yet!

The next world is the World of Lights.
We will certainly know a lot more than we know now after we die, but I still don't think we will know everything.
However, I believe we will continue to learn and grow spiritually.

 

[Trailblazer]

Everything but this existence! This must be the exception to the rule.

No, including this existence.

 

[osgart]

Have you heard of Dolores Cannon?
According to her research, this world is indeed the exception to the rule, as her ‘informants’ have told her we are the only place with ‘free will’ and therefore this is the most difficult existence and we are very brave for being here at this time in history, but many of us actually volunteered to come here now to help put things to rights.

No I have not but I just Googled her. I don't remember volunteering but knowing my personality I'd have come here just to make things right for life if I could have.

I actually don't buy into it though! Free will is strong evidence though that there's a beyond.

She sounds like interesting fantasy fiction.

 

[Trailblazer]

Have you heard of Dolores Cannon?
According to her research, this world is indeed the exception to the rule, as her ‘informants’ have told her we are the only place with ‘free will’ and therefore this is the most difficult existence and we are very brave for being here at this time in history, but many of us actually volunteered to come here now to help put things to rights.

That sounds very interesting.
My religion teaches that we only have free will in this existence and that is one reason this is a difficult existence.

It is free will that allows us to progress in this world and develop the qualities of character that we will need in the next world, but it is not easy making those choices.

 

[sew.excited73]

No I have not but I just Googled her. I don't remember volunteering but knowing my personality I'd have come here just to make things right for life if I could have.

I actually don't buy into it though! Free will is strong evidence though that there's a beyond.

She sounds like interesting fantasy fiction.

It is very clever fantasy fiction though… I have found fewer contradictions in her texts than in the actual Bible. But, it’s also hard to prove because it’s hard to prove a negative!

But the thing that has me baffled is that her clients, who live continents apart, would carry on where previous clients left off... and people who learned her techniques say the same happens for them.

(Again, depends on whether you trust her not to lie just to sell books to start with, of course, but she certainly is a very interesting character and does not claim to be a channel herself at all, as many people think, she’s actually a regression hypnotist. I find some of her claims -especially about aliens- a little out there, but if you can see past the ‘new age‘-y feel, her YT clips raise some very interesting philosophical spins on answers to some of my questions. I am less taken in by her students or daughter, Julia… but this one is pretty good if I remember correctly:

)

 

[osgart]

It is very clever fantasy fiction though… I have found fewer contradictions in her texts than in the actual Bible. But, it’s also hard to prove because it’s hard to prove a negative!

But the thing that has me baffled is that her clients, who live continents apart, would carry on where previous clients left off... and people who learned her techniques say the same happens for them.

(Again, depends on whether you trust her not to lie just to sell books to start with, of course, but she certainly is a very interesting character and does not claim to be a channel herself at all, as many people think, she’s actually a regression hypnotist. I find some of her claims -especially about aliens- a little out there, but if you can see past the ‘new age‘-y feel, her YT clips raise some very interesting philosophical spins on answers to some of my questions. I am less taken in by her students or daughter, Julia… but this one is pretty good if I remember correctly:

)

Can't really get into it. It doesn't draw me in as being truthful.

 

[Trailblazer]

Can't really get into it. It doesn't draw me in as being truthful.

There is no way I am going to watch a video that is that long, so I looked her up and Wikipedia says that she was a leader of the New Age movement and a promoter of fringe theories relating to aliens and alternative realities.

There might be some truth in some New Age movements but I am not into New Age movements since I believe that the Baha'i Faith is the religion for the new age, and Baha'u'llah wrote about everything I need to know, more than I have ever even had time to read!

In my opinion, a Revelation from God has to be the truth so I don't have to worry about whether it is the truth. That is just how my mind works.

 

[osgart]

There is no way I am going to watch a video that is that long, so I looked her up and Wikipedia says that she was a leader of the New Age movement and a promoter of fringe theories relating to aliens and alternative realities.

There might be some truth in some New Age movements but I am not into New Age movements since I believe that the Baha'i Faith is the religion for the new age, and Baha'u'llah wrote about everything I need to know, more than I have ever even had time to read!

In my opinion, a Revelation from God has to be the truth so I don't have to worry about whether it is the truth. That is just how my mind works.

I don't really know anything about New Age. I know there is new age music, but I don't think that relates to the movement.

I have no idea what a God would or could reveal to convince me. For me God would have to be an active participant on Earth for me to believe. Human language wouldn't be enough. Any Abrahamic God I couldn't believe to be real.

I'm not even close to believing that God exists even though I'm a believer in ietsism. I never knew the word ietsism til RF, but that title suits me just fine. To me infinite existence is an amazing fact because non-existence isn't possible given that the universe exists. Whatever space and time grew into from the Big Bang on must be fundamental and eternal. Life is the monkey wrench in an otherwise dead void universe that compels me to think beyond it. So something far more infinitely vast and of mysterious life like dimensions must exist. Unfortunately no ideal existence is out there. Infinity blows my mind though, so whatever is out there is truly amazing, but not all powerful, and all knowing.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have no idea what a God would or could reveal to convince me. For me God would have to be an active participant on Earth for me to believe. Human language wouldn't be enough.

Since God will never be an active participant on Earth, at least not one that you could see or hear with your eyes and ears, I guess you will remain a nonbeliever. There is nothing wrong with that as long as you have a good character, as I know you do.

Any Abrahamic God I couldn't believe to be real.

I believe that God is real but not necessarily with all the embellishments that Abrahamic religions add to Him.

I'm not even close to believing that God exists even though I'm a believer in ietsism.

I'm not even close to believing that God doesn't exist.
I have been trying to drop God off at the bus depot for years but I cannot seem to get rid of Him....
I guess God wants me to keep believing in Him.

 

[sew.excited73]

Can't really get into it. It doesn't draw me in as being truthful.

No worries, stay clear if it’s not for you.

 

[sew.excited73]

There is no way I am going to watch a video that is that long, so I looked her up and Wikipedia says that she was a leader of the New Age movement and a promoter of fringe theories relating to aliens and alternative realities.

There might be some truth in some New Age movements but I am not into New Age movements since I believe that the proBaha'i Faith is the religion for the new age, and Baha'u'llah wrote about everything I need to know, more than I have ever even had time to read!

In my opinion, a Revelation from God has to be the truth so I don't have to worry about whether it is the truth. That is just how my mind works.

Fring theories most definitely, bordering on New Age certainly, but I would not call her”a leader of a New Age movement.

I think whoever wrote that wiki-page didn’t really know much about her and just put down first impressions, or didn’t agree with her points of view and tried to ridicule her, as ‘New Age‘ often has a bad connotation in mainstream circles.

As I said before, it seems, she doesn’t fit my boots either, but I certainly have heard her say things that made me go: “Oh my God, that part is true, it makes so much sense to me” (as with every though-stream in my life, really.)

Actually, a new thought just occurred to me on the back of this… maybe I am supposed to put my own puzzle together from all these different belief systems and come to the truth that way?!

 

[sew.excited73]

There is no way I am going to watch a video that is that long, so I looked her up and Wikipedia says that she was a leader of the New Age movement and a promoter of fringe theories relating to aliens and alternative realities.

There might be some truth in some New Age movements but I am not into New Age movements since I believe that the Baha'i Faith is the religion for the new age, and Baha'u'llah wrote about everything I need to know, more than I have ever even had time to read!

In my opinion, a Revelation from God has to be the truth so I don't have to worry about whether it is the truth. That is just how my mind works.

I was just watching this video and I just had to write you again, because at 1:15:46 into the video she literally says: “…somebody had to come and Blaze the trail!” If you watch just the preceding 8 minutes from 1:07:36 onwards, you might get what she means as she is talking about what happened just after the 2nd World War, and how some people born in the decade after the war are the trailblazers!

 

[Trailblazer]

Actually, a new thought just occurred to me on the back of this… maybe I am supposed to put my own puzzle together from all these different belief systems and come to the truth that way?!

I think there is some truth to that.

 

[Truthseeker]

It is very clever fantasy fiction though… I have found fewer contradictions in her texts than in the actual Bible. But, it’s also hard to prove because it’s hard to prove a negative!

But the thing that has me baffled is that her clients, who live continents apart, would carry on where previous clients left off... and people who learned her techniques say the same happens for them.

(Again, depends on whether you trust her not to lie just to sell books to start with, of course, but she certainly is a very interesting character and does not claim to be a channel herself at all, as many people think, she’s actually a regression hypnotist. I find some of her claims -especially about aliens- a little out there, but if you can see past the ‘new age‘-y feel, her YT clips raise some very interesting philosophical spins on answers to some of my questions. I am less taken in by her students or daughter, Julia… but this one is pretty good if I remember correctly:

)

Reading about her on Wikipedia her stuff is far out there. People that are hypnotized are suggestable to what the hypnotizer is saying to them, and sometimes have false memories.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Originally a Dutch term, ietsism is a form of nontheism that asserts there is some unspecified transcendent reality beyond the mundane. It is expressed in the statement, "I feel there must be more to reality than the physical universe, but I have no idea what that 'more' could be." Do you find ietsism a likely and/or plausible belief?

Sure, but I don't find much value in thinking about what that mystery is anymore.

Yes, there probably are aspects of reality yet undiscovered that would be jaw-dropping to learn, but I don't expect to have any revealed to me in this life or after death.

As another poster said, it's an intuition, which I define as a compelling to irresistible hunch. We can call in idea an intuition when we can say that we feel strongly that we are correct but can't say why or demonstrate that we are. I do not consider this knowledge, which I define as the collection of demonstrably correct ideas.

But I recognized that I reached the end of my ability to decide more about the nature of the unseen reality, and it lost my interest. I still have the intuition, but I don't wonder about what it tells me. I don't expect to ever know more, and so I don't think about it.

What interests me about this topic is how many people become endless ponderers of this matter. It occupies their attention repeatedly indefinitely.

I like the mystery of not knowing what's out there, and that includes not knowing much about the unknowable God.

I'd prefer answers, but they're not available, and calling that mystery a god doesn't add anything for me, so I don't.

This sounds a lot like some sort of faithless intuition

Agreed.

One recognizes the logical need and thereby likelihood for some sort of transcendent reality to explain this one, yet will not accept a transcendent 'being', or 'entity' along with it.

Why call it a being? That's just a guess.

I can certainly understand and appreciate this perspective. But for myself, it seems unnecessarily timid.

Timid? No, intelligent. Rational. You imply cowardice or weakness of spirit, but I would just remind the forum that not once has anybody who claimed to have special ways of knowing ever provided a single useful insight gleaned by whatever method they use to "see further." What you imply is courageous is a waste of energy to me.

I know. I noticed that decades ago when I was in the stage of my philosophical education when I did consider such things. Once they've been thought out - and we notice this if we are able when we see that we've just been spinning in circles long enough and decide to divert attention elsewhere.

And as a result, it's probably going to be quite ineffective

It been effective in the sense that I've moved on. I don't see any benefit to you or anybody else to keep chasing one's tail in idle speculation indefinitely. Like I said, I'm still waiting to see the benefit to any of you who do this. Tell me what it does for you that I might want for myself?

It's treating "I don't know" as though it were an impediment, when it is in fact a gateway to tremendous possibility. And if we allow ourselves to walk through that gateway and explore those possibilities, we can begin to discover their effectiveness.

I consider recognizing and explicitly saying, "I don't know" to be a virtue whenever that is the case.

And once again, you depict this as some kind of journey with rich rewards, but what are they? Where are they in you? It sounds like you have some itch that needs perpetual scratching, but word it as a fruitful journey full of promise and reward. Where's the beef?

 

[sew.excited73]

Reading about her on Wikipedia her stuff is far out there. People that are hypnotized are suggestable to what the hypnotizer is saying to them, and sometimes have false memories.

Yup, or just a very vivid imagination in addition to 'not wanting to disappoint' the hypnotist. I have heard many people say: "It felt like I was making it up, but it also felt real."

Having said that, I have had a spiritual experience myself (without a hypnotist) and that also felt like I was just 'daydreaming', but what I was daydreaming did happen exactly the way I daydreamed it, and... I daydream all the time, but this one stuck with me all my life. So,... you know...

 

[PureX]

Why call it a being? That's just a guess.

Because it's just a guess. And it's our guess, so why not?

 

[sew.excited73]

It may be that it would happen the very second the window of opportunity opens up.

Yes, my (current) belief in a multiverse that consists of a tree whose branches split for (almost) every possibility (or at least some hierarchy of possibilities that bring forth a split of dimensions) would suggest this as well,... as there then must be a branch that has the 'yes' and a branch that has the 'no' option. So waaaaay back when, there is also a dimension where there was never any life, and that one is right next to its opposite branch where life just started, for example.