Do you forgive (the Abrahamic) God?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I did not do that and also the Abrahamic God does not do that.

Right.

 

[Twilight Hue]

For the sake of this thread, let's suppose some form of Abraham's God is really real and the theistic religion has the facts right. I'm gonna go with Christianity, as that's what I'm most familiar with.

Christians say that you need God's forgiveness because we are filthy sinners. Luckily, Jesus died so His Father would not look at us without disgust.

But I ask you... Do you forgive Jesus and His Father? I don't.

Look at all the suffering. Look at the genocides that the Father ordered the Israelites to carry out in Cannan! He openly ordered murder of people who broke a seemingly artificial moral law book. He flooded the earth and all the animals in it. Reading the Bible, it seems to me that God puts us through unnecessary misery, as He brags about His omnipotence.

So... no! I don't forgive God. I balk at the idea that Yahweh is demanding that I seek forgiveness from Him! My mother held her faith that Jesus would cure her cancer all the way to the very end... Do I forgive Jesus for allowing me to watch my mother die as a babe? No! Though, some would argue it was good because it built my character...

So, hypothetically, if an Abrahamic God is real, do you forgive Him?

Hard to forgive a torturing and incredibly evil deity masquerading as good and just one that offers nothing but protection in exchange for complete subjection and obedience.

 

[Brian2]

Right.

Can you show where I or where God call evil and suffering good?

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Do you forgive Jesus and His Father? I don't.

Do you from time to time ask yourself what impact your anger towards the god you believe in, has on you, Xavier?

How does that anger affect your actions and your outlook on what is before you?

Humbly,
Hermit

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I accept the world as it is, there isn’t another. I don’t care which God or lack thereof is responsible.

 

[Koldo]

I accept the world as it is, there isn’t another.

What does the word 'accept' mean here?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

What does the word 'accept' mean here?

It is what it is, it isn't a bad world or a good world.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Didn’t know how to vote. God told me He didn’t write the Bible. It seems unfair to judge Him on a book that didn’t characterize Him correctly.

 

[Koldo]

It is what it is, it isn't a bad world or a good world.

To accept the world is to consider it neither good nor bad?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

To accept the world is to consider it neither good nor bad?

Yes. It has its pain and its pleasure. Ultimately there's nothing else that could be, so why hate fate or God? That's my point.

 

[PureX]

I could only forgive myself for (mis-)conceiving of a God that I then chose to condemn.

 

[Koldo]

Yes. It has its pain and its pleasure.

Got it.

Ultimately there's nothing else that could be,

?

so why hate fate or God? That's my point.

Why experience any feeling at all?

 

[1213]

So, hypothetically, if an Abrahamic God is real, do you forgive Him?

I don't think He has done anything wrong.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Got it.



?



Why experience any feeling at all?

I’m just trying to understand what you’re arguing. Are you saying it’s worthwhile to be angry at the world and the way things are?

 

[Alien826]

I voted "no". I need to make it clear though that I don't think there is any god or if there is it is nothing to like what I'm assuming in my answer, which is a particular Christian view.

I don't forgive god for being really illogical, in the following ways.

Considering that guilty people can only be forgiven by torturing an innocent person to death.

Torturing an innocent person to death at all.

Needing a reason, other than contrition, to forgive at all. Why not just do it?

Blaming a faulty creation for behaving in a faulty way.

Calling people "hopeless sinners" that are just behaving as their nature dictates.

Judging people against perfection rather than what is reasonably possible.

Punishing people after death when all possibility of redemption has gone. Punishment, done correctly and with love, can be redemptive, but only when there is an opportunity to change.

Being overly concerned with being worshiped. Doesn't he know he's amazing already without our telling him so over and over.

Being one and three at the same time and not being able to explain how that can be.

Changing his mind about a lot of rules when Jesus came along. Did he get it wrong the first time?

Being more like an ancient potentate than a really superior being.

 

[Koldo]

I’m just trying to understand what you’re arguing. Are you saying it’s worthwhile to be angry at the world and the way things are?

Let me put it this way: Feelings are an end in themselves. There is no other point to feeling anything other than experiencing it. Your life won't be any more meaningful nor have an increased worthiness if you don't experience hatred or angriness.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Let me put it this way: Feelings are an end in themselves. There is no other point to feeling anything other than experiencing it. Your life won't be any more meaningful nor have an increased worthiness if you don't experience hatred or angriness.

No but wouldn’t it be more peaceful?

 

[Koldo]

No but wouldn’t it be more peaceful?

So what? If you value peace above everything else, that is up to you. Others may value it differently.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The connection between Abrahamic religions is not 'God'. They may have Abraham in common but not God in common. This is something that many would like to change and would like all to have one God; but they don't. Saying it is so doesn't make it so. Abraham preaches peace and denounces kidnapping, and that is why he is a central figure. God is not why he is the central figure. As evidence: 'Abrahamic' is strictly a classification for a large group of religions that have no theological connection to one another. If they had God in common then that would be the basis of the classification. They don't, and it isn't.

There is no 'The Abrahamic God' in my opinion. It is like saying 'The fur of frogs'. Its a phrase full of words that don't make sense together, implying an untruth to those who are unaware frogs have no fur. The Abrahamics do not share a common vision of God. It is a difference not a similarity among them.

Similarly one cannot forgive 'The Abrahamic God'. First they'd have to have a common God.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

So what? If you value peace above everything else, that is up to you. Others may value it differently.

Who wouldn't want a peaceful life? Why isn't it worth sacrificing hate for?