crystalonyx
Well-Known Member
The concept of a god creating a place of eternal punishment makes that god the epitamy of malevolence.
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Do you go to hell if you commit suicide?
- Thread starter hannahrose1209
- Start date
The concept of a god creating a place of eternal punishment makes that god the epitamy of malevolence.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
He only threatens to throw you into a burning pit of eternal punishment and damnation because he loves you sooooo much. It's for your own good.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
There has been no need for me to supply any nonsense.
You have supplied more than enough.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
In that case a person has the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe that someone or something does or doesnt exist and Pascal's wager suffers from the logical flaws I outlined.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
No, it makes Him a God of justice.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
More nonsense.
Heneni
Miss Independent
Im sorry, i have not read all the responses in this thread. But i dont think you are going to go to hell when you commit suicide, you are going to come back to it.
And by the time you are back here, it will be ten times worse, and many times harder to cope, which means things will get harder before they get easier. So stick it out here and now. Run the race. Finish it.
heneni
And by the time you are back here, it will be ten times worse, and many times harder to cope, which means things will get harder before they get easier. So stick it out here and now. Run the race. Finish it.
heneni
McBell
Admiral Obvious
Here is the part of post #138 you did not address:
Do you think that he believes as many Christians that everything is black and white only?
You think that there is never any acceptable circumstance to lie?
Perhaps like when you are hiding Jews in your closet and the Nazi's, after knocking on your door, ask if you are hiding any Jews?
Is YOUR God such a prude as to say that you are not to lie but to turn them over?
You think that there is never any acceptable circumstance to lie?
Perhaps like when you are hiding Jews in your closet and the Nazi's, after knocking on your door, ask if you are hiding any Jews?
Is YOUR God such a prude as to say that you are not to lie but to turn them over?
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
I answered it. You just fail to see it. And God by definition cannot be prudish.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Damn straight - he's omnikinky.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
And you're silly.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
You are STILL harping over the word 'prude' even when the word is not in the post you quote.
Sandy Whitelinger,
re: "...a person has the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe that someone or something does or doesnt exist..."
Perhaps you can help me, then. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would really like to be able to do that - for example to effect a belief that it is possible for me to become a more compassionate person. Since you seem to be saying that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, "OK, at this moment I have a lack of belief that x exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that x exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that x exists or is true?
Maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is "a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron." So, assuming that you dont already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?
re: "...a person has the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe that someone or something does or doesnt exist..."
Perhaps you can help me, then. I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have and I would really like to be able to do that - for example to effect a belief that it is possible for me to become a more compassionate person. Since you seem to be saying that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, "OK, at this moment I have a lack of belief that x exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that x exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that x exists or is true?
Maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is "a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron." So, assuming that you dont already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Obviously not, you seem to lack the skill.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
My apologies.
Shall we try it yet again:
Do you think that he believes as many Christians that everything is black and white only?
You think that there is never any acceptable circumstance to lie?
Perhaps like when you are hiding Jews in your closet and the Nazi's, after knocking on your door, ask if you are hiding any Jews?
You think that there is never any acceptable circumstance to lie?
Perhaps like when you are hiding Jews in your closet and the Nazi's, after knocking on your door, ask if you are hiding any Jews?
Sandy Whitelinger,
re: "Obviously not..."
OK, so you don’t think that you are able to explain how you consciously CHOOSE to believe things. I’d be happy just know that it can be done. So I would ask you again to demonstrate your stated ability by doing what I requested of you in the first part of my post #173.
re: "Obviously not..."
OK, so you don’t think that you are able to explain how you consciously CHOOSE to believe things. I’d be happy just know that it can be done. So I would ask you again to demonstrate your stated ability by doing what I requested of you in the first part of my post #173.
HoldemDB9
Active Member
I think most theists say that they believe things, that they actually do not. Most theists seem to think that going with an idea + hoping that it is true = actually believing that it is true. I cannot take anyone seriously who claims that they can choose to believe things like "the earth is flat".
People misuse the word believe and faith way too often. I'm not quite sure what someone means when they say "I believe that Jesus is God", but they are definitely not using the word believe as you would use it when you say something like "I believe my car is red".
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Okay, I'll play your little scenario even though I've stated numerous times that I've already answered your question, just not to your satisfaction
Someone who believes in God arrives at my door. Because he believes in God he must know that he will suffer persecution because of his faith. He is also quite familiar with the laws of God maybe even those that require him not to put other people in a position to violate the laws of God. He is being persued by the authorities. He may then also be aware of how in the past that his scriptures teach him that those who flee from persecution suffer an even worse fate than what was originally prescribed. He knows that by asking for my help with his problem he will be putting me and probably my innocent family in mortal danger.
Is this the person I'm hiding in my closet? It sounds like a cluster ef to me.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Actually, I said that I can't explain how you lack the skill to make a concious choice not to believe in something.
Your scenario is backwards. The ability is to not believe or believe in something that actually exists.