Do you go to hell if you commit suicide?

[Reverend Rick]

If you ever had an encounter with the Holy Ghost, you would see things are not just left to chance. While we call it blind faith, God gives us a small peek or two.

 

[HoldemDB9]

If you ever had an encounter with the Holy Ghost, you would see things are not just left to chance. While we call it blind faith, God gives us a small peek or two.

A quick reply that makes almost no sense at all, just what I expected. You should have just done what most Christians done and not reply at all.

You are saying that God punishes and rewards based on whether or not our faith is true. Well like I've explained, whether or not our faith is true is pure chance - since its FAITH. So you are saying that your God punishes and rewards based on chance.

You are saying that God would favour a Christian who did not really try to find truth over an Atheist who tried harder to find truth. You twist things by saying that the Atheist "chose" to reject Christ and therefore they can be fairly punished. But like I have said over and over (and I'm sure you will agree) religious beleifs are based on faith. So you are saying that the Atheist chose to reject the way which happened to be true. Which way is the true way is completely out of the Atheists control.

You have said over and over in this thread that God punishes and rewards us based on things that are completely out of our control and on complete luck. Its because of people like you why I have come to despise some aspects of Christianity so much.

Now if you want to explain to me how achieving salvation is anything but sheer luck, then please do. But if you are just going to throw out some silly on liner or a few Bible verses, then please, just don't bother - just give up like most Christians do.

 

[Reverend Rick]

A quick reply that makes almost no sense at all, just what I expected. You should have just done what most Christians done and not reply at all.

Really?

You are saying that God punishes and rewards based on whether or not our faith is true. Well like I've explained, whether or not our faith is true is pure chance - since its FAITH. So you are saying that your God punishes and rewards based on chance.

No, your saying that and putting words in others mouths.

You are saying that God would favour a Christian who did not really try to find truth over an Atheist who tried harder to find truth.

See, you did it again.

You twist things by saying that the Atheist "chose" to reject Christ and therefore they can be fairly punished. But like I have said over and over (and I'm sure you will agree) religious beleifs are based on faith. So you are saying that the Atheist chose to reject the way which happened to be true. Which way is the true way is completely out of the Atheists control.

Out of control? How? Are you saying if you cannot get 100% on a test that you are going to lay your pencil down and refuse to take the test? You accuse me of using Pascals wager, but you do as well.

You have said over and over in this thread that God punishes and rewards us based on things that are completely out of our control and on complete luck. Its because of people like you why I have come to despise some aspects of Christianity so much.

Please quote me where I have used the word "luck" anywhere in this thread.

Now if you want to explain to me how achieving salvation is anything but sheer luck, then please do. But if you are just going to through out some silly on liner or a few Bible verses, then please, just don't bother - just give up like most Christians do.

Give up? You don't know me very well do you?

 

[Muffled]

Well do you?

Heb 9:27 And inasmuch as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this cometh judgment;

Since suicide is a sin it will come under judgement after death. The question then becomes whether the person accepted the attonement for sin on the cross or not.

I believe that Hell is only filled at the time of final judgement and an intermediary judgement will be made before then. I think God is apt to withhold rebirth for those who sin in this way. THe concept is: If you don't value life, why should you be given one.

Hell is not the grave but is the fiery bowels of the earth. That is the way the Greeks pictured Hades and the Bible calls it the lake of fire. I am reading Norse Mythology at present and Hel is a fiery place and a person who embodies that place.

The Hebrew Sheol is the grave and Jesus used Gehenna ( a burning dump) as a metaphor for Hell.

 

[HoldemDB9]

Really?

Well please explain, because it made no sense to me.

No, your saying that and putting words in others mouths.

So you are saying that Christians are not going to be favoured over non-Christians by God? If so, then I'm sorry, I misunderstood you.

See, you did it again.

So you believe God would favour the Atheist in this situation? Again, if so, the I apologize.

Out of control? How? Are you saying if you cannot get 100% on a test that you are going to lay your pencil down and refuse to take the test? You accuse me of using Pascals wager, but you do as well.

I said its out of the Atheists control that Christianity is true, which it 100% is. And in response to your test example, yes I would take the test - I don't see how this is at all related. And I would love you to explain how I in any way was using Pascals Wager. Also, I accused you of using Pascals stupid Wager, because you did use it.

Please quote me where I have used the word "luck" anywhere in this thread.

Obviously you have not specifically said this, otherwise you would be agreeing with me right now. But you have said in this thread that God will favour those who's faith happens to be right. You have said that if non-believers happen to be wrong, they may be punished for eternity.

Give up? You don't know me very well do you?

Well then this should be interesting because I've never ever had a Christian explain to me how achieving salvation (through beleifs) is anything but sheer luck.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Obviously you have not specifically said this, otherwise you would be agreeing with me right now. But you have said in this thread that God will favour those who's faith happens to be right. You have said that if non-believers happen to be wrong, they may be punished for eternity.

It is not about right and wrong. It is all about accepting the gift of salvation. It is a free gift, why not accept it graciously?

 

[ker crypter]

Yes, unless you were mentally ill when you did it.

lm sure people in their right minds kill themselves.....:sarcastic give me a break... if there is this so called invisible man in the sky that you believe in and he doesnt except someone into heaven because they cant handle their pain, then that god can go to hell as far as lm concerned. twisted religions....

 

[sandy whitelinger]

No, but I think punishing someone for having knowledge of something is rather disturbing.

Evidently living forever with the knowledge of good and evil is a little disturbing to God. I'll trust His opinion over yours, thank you.

 

[HoldemDB9]

It is not about right and wrong. It is all about accepting the gift of salvation. It is a free gift, why not accept it graciously?

You again are using Pascals Wager. I've been though this. I cannot accept a gift that I do not know is there. There are multiple religions and all of those are also saying that they are offering a free gift. Which one should I choose Rick? The one that happens to be right? How do I know which one is right? Oh, I don't - I just have got to have faith that I'm right. Please explain to me how being right about religious beleifs is something other than utter luck, or cant you?

Also, I will imagine just for a second that Christianity is the only religion in existence (like you seem to think). I would still probably not become a Christian, because to become a Christian, I really would have to be dishonest to myself - would God want that?

 

[McBell]

Please explain to me how being right about religious beleifs is something other than utter luck, or cant you??

Seems to me that if he could explain it he would have already explained it.

 

[dawny0826]

You again are using Pascals Wager. I've been though this. I cannot accept a gift that I do not know is there. There are multiple religions and all of those are also saying that they are offering a free gift. Which one should I choose Rick? The one that happens to be right? How do I know which one is right? Oh, I don't - I just have got to have faith that I'm right. Please explain to me how being right about religious beleifs is something other than utter luck, or cant you?

Also, I will imagine just for a second that Christianity is the only religion in existence (like you seem to think). I would still probably not become a Christian, because to become a Christian, I really would have to be dishonest to myself - would God want that?

I'm sure my comment here, won't suprise you, HoldemDB9.

No, God wouldn't want you to be dishonest with yourself. But you know why you aren't a Christian and chance and "luck" aren't factors here. Are you honest with yoursef?

 

[McBell]

It is interesting when people argue as though it is the choir with they argue

 

[dawny0826]

It is interesting when people argue as though it is the choir with they argue

Was my response goofy? (I changed it.)

 

[McBell]

Was my response goofy? (I changed it.)

Not at all.
It is merely my opinion that if you are looking to convince someone who does not believe as you do, you should not present yourself as though they do.

 

[dawny0826]

Not at all.
It is merely my opinion that if you are looking to convince someone who does not believe as you do, you should not present yourself as though they do.

That's not bad advice.

 

[HoldemDB9]

I'm sure my comment here, won't suprise you, HoldemDB9.

No, God wouldn't want you to be dishonest with yourself. But you know why you aren't a Christian and chance and "luck" aren't factors here. Are you honest with yoursef?

Yes Dawny, chance and luck are factors here. Like I said, I honestly have never had a Christian explain to me how achieving salvation is anything but chance. We cannot find which religion is true through reasoning and logic, surley you agree with this? What we have to do is choose to have faith in the religion which happens to be true, right?

So if a Muslim has an equal amount of faith in Islam as a Christian does in Jesus, do you think it would be fair for God to reward the Muslim because their faith happened to be true? If Islam is true, a Muslim has not done anything better than a Christian has done, its just that their beliefs were true. And we do not control what is and is not true.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

And you, just like ayani, have completely missed the point.
Or are ignoring/avoiding it.

Interesting how you concentrate on the word "prude" as though it was the most important word in the statement....

Ok, I give, what was the most important concept in the statement?

 

[McBell]

Ok, I give, what was the most important concept in the statement?

How big a prude do you think your God is?

Do you think that he believes as many Christians that everything is black and white only?
You think that there is never any acceptable circumstance to lie?
Perhaps like when you are hiding Jews in your closet and the Nazi's, after knocking on your door, ask if you are hiding any Jews?
Is YOUR God such a prude as to say that you are not to lie but to turn them over?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

How big a prude do you think your God is?

Do you think that he believes as many Christians that everything is black and white only?
You think that there is never any acceptable circumstance to lie?
Perhaps like when you are hiding Jews in your closet and the Nazi's, after knocking on your door, ask if you are hiding any Jews?
Is YOUR God such a prude as to say that you are not to lie but to turn them over?

God is incapable of being a prude. By definition. His goodness and purity cannot be excessive when the highest goodness and purity is His attribute.

You seem to be forgetting His other attributes such as forgiveness and grace.

 

[dawny0826]

Yes Dawny, chance and luck are factors here. Like I said, I honestly have never had a Christian explain to me how achieving salvation is anything but chance. We cannot find which religion is true through reasoning and logic, surley you agree with this? What we have to do is choose to have faith in the religion which happens to be true, right?

So if a Muslim has an equal amount of faith in Islam as a Christian does in Jesus, do you think it would be fair for God to reward the Muslim because their faith happened to be true? If Islam is true, a Muslim has not done anything better than a Christian has done, its just that their beliefs were true. And we do not control what is and is not true.

We don't have to "achieve" salvation, though. Salvation is ours. We simply have to believe that Christ is giving us this gift.

I find the belief at least in a higher power, to be completely logical. Surely, something or someone put all that we see in motion. But yes, much of what I believe, I believe in faith. I accept much without tangible evidence.
I chose to have faith in the religion that's right for me.

I believe that we are to live our lives to the best of our ability, following our own hearts and convictions. And if we each live a life in love and compassion, I believe God sees this, regardless of our religious affiliation. Only God knows our true character. I don't consider myself to be any better or "faithful" than someone of another faith.

Where I disagree with you, is that I believe we do control, to an extent, what's "true" to us, individually. You already know my thoughts on choice, though, so I won't post them again.