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Do you KNOW God does not exist?

Do you KNOW God does Not exist?

  • Yes, I know He does not exist

    Votes: 16 30.2%
  • No, I do not know He does not exist

    Votes: 10 18.9%
  • No, I believe He exists

    Votes: 5 9.4%
  • No, I believe He does not exist

    Votes: 10 18.9%
  • Yes. I know He does exists

    Votes: 12 22.6%

  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .

StopS

Member
I agree, but the term "atheism" has a necessary meaning
Well, in my eyes people assign a meaning to words, which merely convey information.
What is the -ism in atheism? What does an atheist follow? What is the doctrine? What are the goals? And so on and on.
Sorry, I disagree that the term "atheist" is necessary. It's demeaning. Like a-horoscopist or a-racist.
There are human beings and some believe super-natural things exist. So I object to being called a name for not believing what others believe without having a rational reason to beleive it.
 

Blastcat

Active Member
Well, in my eyes people assign a meaning to words, which merely convey information.
What is the -ism in atheism? What does an atheist follow? What is the doctrine? What are the goals? And so on and on.
Sorry, I disagree that the term "atheist" is necessary. It's demeaning. Like a-horoscopist or a-racist.
There are human beings and some believe super-natural things exist. So I object to being called a name for not believing what others believe without having a rational reason to beleive it.


I was proud to fabricate my ISM in regard to relig IMS... I crafted that out of the best kind of young adolescent thinking I HAD..


I used to be whatever they TOLD me to be..

Then I was an agnostic for a while...

SO proud to be NOT theist or stupid atheist.

THEN I learned a bit more .. found out I was a stupid atheist AND a very clever agnostic...

You ,know.. when I was young and SO proud of me. People around me.. we so . not clever you see. It was me against pretty much the world.,
 

Shad

Veteran Member
How can I be asserting my "view", when there are two possible.

There are more than two. You are asserting there is only two. You are asserting your view is reasonable of the two. You are also asserting science can not deal with this problem but this is no more than God of Gaps. Considering people such as Hawking are trying to address these problems suggests that science can deal with this issues. So your assertion is certainly not true.


I'll admit that people play fast and loose with the Truth, but the Truth defines itself, rationally, by definition.

I would contend that often what we accept and/or believe is truth is not. So the question comes down to providing your or anyone's claims of truth. Truth is an absolute which science does not deal with as it is about probability.

Some people here, particularly atheists oddly enough, don't even really read what I've written. I can tell, because even the blind faith fundamentalists at least refer to it and say how they think I'm wrong. But this is just the same old brick wall.

What does this have to do with my arguments? You are not really linking your point with anything I have said. You are tossing out a generalization. So what?
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
You make heaven sound like hell.

There are few around me, that insist we all go to heaven.
They don't believe in hell.

I can't agree.
But I suspect we all go to the same place.

Picture Jesus, Judas and Hitler sitting at the same table, sharing bread and a sauce bowl.
looking each other...in the eye.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
That heaven sounds to me like:
The absence of substance,
or brass knuckles on a cloud !
~
Do they have brass in heaven ?
I guess the angels have big fists !
~
'mud

I see them displayed with sword in hand.
Been that way for centuries.
 

God's Avatars

New Member
David Eagleman's observation about "possibilianism" seems apropos: "We know too little to commit to strict atheism and far too much to commit to a particular religious story. What has surprised me is ho much certainty there is out there."
 

Blastcat

Active Member
There are few around me, that insist we all go to heaven.
They don't believe in hell.

I can't agree.
But I suspect we all go to the same place.

Picture Jesus, Judas and Hitler sitting at the same table, sharing bread and a sauce bowl.
looking each other...in the eye.

There are few around me who have any number of ideas about Heaven and Hell and whatnot..
I can't be bothered.

You can suspect all you like.
And you do.

Picture this.. you are dreaming things up and I can't be bothered.
 

Blastcat

Active Member
Yet there you are being bothered.

I'm not bothered. I'm making fun of very bad thinking.

Some people don't understand logic at all and think very poorly.. and YET want to keep talking as if their words were special.

Well, if you don't make sense.. you are babbling and what you write ISN'T very special.

And for sure doesn't make sense.
If you don't want to make sense, fine. But if you pretend.. too bad. I'm going to point that out to you.

Does bad thinking bother me? In a way, all bad thinking bothers me. It should bother me.. and it should bother you.
Irrationality leads to destruction.

Now.. that statement I can back up with LOGIC.. and facts. But if you want POETRY.. I'm a poet. I can write a RAP poem for you.. if that matters.

I don't think it does really matter.. the truth?
You guys don't care about it.. truth is relative to you guys.

Up is down and left is right.. so anything you may SAY.. is entertaining maybe.


I can play.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I'm not bothered. I'm making fun of very bad thinking.

Some people don't understand logic at all and think very poorly.. and YET want to keep talking as if their words were special.

Well, if you don't make sense.. you are babbling and what you write ISN'T very special.

And for sure doesn't make sense.
If you don't want to make sense, fine. But if you pretend.. too bad. I'm going to point that out to you.

Does bad thinking bother me? In a way, all bad thinking bothers me. It should bother me.. and it should bother you.
Irrationality leads to destruction.

Now.. that statement I can back up with LOGIC.. and facts. But if you want POETRY.. I'm a poet. I can write a RAP poem for you.. if that matters.

I don't think it does really matter.. the truth?
You guys don't care about it.. truth is relative to you guys.

Up is down and left is right.. so anything you may SAY.. is entertaining maybe.


I can play.

You can't be bothered.....a claim of no emotion.
You claim we don't care....an emotional statement.

I say....you are not logical.
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
"Truth is God" I've been told many times.
I always wonder....when is it going to say it ?
All I get is the words and lies of men !
When will these 'truths' be told by your gods ?
~
'mud
 
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leibowde84

Veteran Member
Well, in my eyes people assign a meaning to words, which merely convey information.
What is the -ism in atheism? What does an atheist follow? What is the doctrine? What are the goals? And so on and on.
Sorry, I disagree that the term "atheist" is necessary. It's demeaning. Like a-horoscopist or a-racist.
There are human beings and some believe super-natural things exist. So I object to being called a name for not believing what others believe without having a rational reason to beleive it.
It seems like you are against "atheism" because you see a negative connotation behind the term. I don't agree, as being without a belief in the existence of God does not make you lesser in any way. And, that is exactly my point. People try to change the meaning of "atheism" in order to ridicule them for holding an irrational position when, in actuality, they don't hold one at all.

In regards to "necessity", I was referring to our linguistic ability to classify those that do not hold a belief in the supernatural.
 

ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
"Truth is God" I've been told many times.
I always wonder....when is it going say it ?
All I get is the words and lies of men !
When will these 'truths' be told by your gods ?
~
'mud

Follow Truth and there you'll find God, whatever It is--not the other way around, since God, whatever It is, doesn't talk.
 

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
And that brings up the question:
what could be said, if 'it' doesn't talk !
~
'mud
 

Blastcat

Active Member
Who is "you guys", and what the hell do you know about me. Saying that I don't care or that Truth is relative, you couldn't be more wrong. Truth is God.

You're just too busy being casual.

The "you guys" I am referring to are the you guys who don't really bother about logic, or being logical.

People who conflate what they believe with "the truth" are mixing up words in a very illogical fashion.
People who think that truth is relative to their own personal beliefs are being relativists.

People who mangle meanings like that either don't bother about logic, or really don't have a clue about it.
That's why I said some people should stick to poetry, and not pretend to be logical.

Some OTHER kinds of people can tell the difference between bad thinking, poetry, and logical thinking.
 

Blastcat

Active Member
Follow Truth and there you'll find God, whatever It is--not the other way around, since God, whatever It is, doesn't talk.

You see, this is why I said that some of you guys just don't care about logic or being rational.

You said that to you, the truth is god. The two are the same.. so what is the use of FOLLOWING THE truth/god to find the god/truth?

What does that mean? Both words are the same in your view?
As long as someone follows what you think your god is .. he will find the truth?

The truth is what you think your god is?
The truth about what.. GOD?

I like to use logic. I admire it. I like it when things make sense.

So, let me try to make sense out of your statement.
i will break it down into parts. That's what I do when something doesn't make sense to me.

"Follow Truth and there you'll find God"

Let's try to see how you've defined these terms first of all..

The truth and god mean the same. God is truth you said. I can quote you if need be. Since both words are interchangeable.. let's do that. Let's substitute TRUTH for GOD.... and see what sense your first statement makes.

So.. Follow the Truth and there you'll find truth. Ok.. well, that makes sense. But it's hardly ... deep or very meaningful. If we follow something, we are most likely to find it. Follow a car, and we will find the car. Follow a river, and we should also find the river. Follow a guy.. and we might find the guy. Yep. Perfectly logical. IS THIS what you need to tell us? If we look for something or follow something, we might find it.

But what IS this truth you are talking about?
Any truth?

Or are you talking about the truth YOU happen to own, and want to promulgate? A truth?
So, you say that it's TRUE that your god is real. You seem to be saying more, however.
I think you mean YOUR kind of god. I don't think you're talking about ALLAH or VISHNU or THOR or ... Quetzalcoatl, right? ( just a wild guess your god might be the one Christians usually call God )

So, I THINK .. ( again guessing, because you're NOTHING if not poetic ) You mean Yahweh... is the only TRUE god. Is that what you mean? You've come to the conclusion that the god YOU happen to believe in can be the ONLY TRUE god out there.. and that all the OTHER gods people believe in now, or have in the past are FALSE gods?

Is that your claim?.. I'm guessing because I have to guess... You express yourself more poetically than logically.

So, let's go with my guess for now. Your claim, as far as I can tell, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that YOUR god ( and presumably no other kind of god ) IS the ONLY TRUE god?

Well, that's a good logical claim, if that's the case. BUT ... you left out the part where you might have proved that your god is such and such, the "truth" and so forth. When I look for your REASONING.. about how you came to that conclusion, it's not there. There is no reasoning, no evidence.. no proof. You see, all of those things are parts of LOGIC.

And the logic is absent in this part of your statement. You make a claim.. call it true and that's it.
Well, that's not it.
That's the START of it.... but if IT was your desire to convince anyone.. your IT isn't.

It's like it's good enough for you to tell us what you believe in. .. No logic, just your belief.
Ok. You believe in a god.

So do many people. Now what? .. Did you want to give us logical reasons as to why you believe in your god?
If that's the case.. bring the reasons.
Let's take a look at your logic.

So far, I've seen none. But that doesn't mean you don't have any. AND it also doesn't mean that it's going to be very persuasive or good logic if you do have any. I'm not convinced that you care too too much about logic or being particularly persuasive. And if I'm COMPLETELY off base here and you LOVE logic and reasoning, then you can easily prove me wrong by stating your best logical case for ANY of your astounding assertions.

Then, if you logic is not only valid but SOUND, you WILL be persuasive in a logical sense.

From what I've seen, you prefer to be poetically MOVING ... but you don't need logic for that. In fact, logic messes up fine poetry, doesn't it? Gets in the way of all of those great emotions?
Poetry is renowned for being quite irrational and emotional in nature.

You're pretty good at poetic statements. But remember that poetry and logic just aren't the same. Some people can tell the difference between the two.

Now, the second term in your opening statement is "God".. and how do you define that word?
Well, in your words "God, whatever It is"

I would call that a vague definition if I ever saw one.
So, the truth is god and god is whatever it is.... you don't know what god is.. or god's meaning is relative, and THAT'S the truth.

So, the truth is relative.
The truth is whatever it is.
God is whatever THAT is.

Well, when it comes to LOGIC.. that's a big honking "WHATEVER, DUDE".

I get it, you couldn't care LESS about logic or using it.
And you are a relativist. Meaning is completely subjective, to you, meaning is completely subjective, the truth is completely subjective, your god is completely subjective.

What about reality.. completely subjective?

I can't guess .. But two things are pretty sure.

You are a relativist, and your logic is poor to non-existent.

As to your poetry.. yah.
Ok.. I think it's nice, but I've read better.

Now the last bit.. "God, whatever It is, doesn't talk."

What does that mean, I wonder?
Let's try to make sense out of that.

God, you say doesn't TALK.... ok.
So, let me guess that you mean GOD doesn't COMMUNICATE... is that a fair guess?

If your god doesn't COMMUNICATE... how do you know anything about the god?
If your ideas about this god ARE WRONG.. God wont talk.. he just DOESN'T talk. So, of course you could be completely WRONG about this god, and in fact, you could be wrong that this god exists in the first place.

I find that exceeding strange thing for you to say. But of course, the poetic nature of the statement cries out for PERSONAL interpretation. We could interpret that "doesn't talk" statement almost ANY way at all. I gave you one such interpretation. And you might think.. SO WHAT?

Who CARES about my personal interpretations?
Ah.. but it's my personal "truth".. It's my truth.. it's my relative truth.. it's "my god"...

But who cares about relative kinds of personal truths?
If you seek or follow your personal, relative truth.. you will find YOURSELF.

Seek yourself , seek your own personal opinions and biases and you shall find your personal opinions and biases a plenty.

But LOGIC? No.
Reasoning?.. hardly.

Poetry and bliss and easy happiness, fantasy and relativism? .. Maybe.
 
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ThePainefulTruth

Romantic-Cynic
You see, this is why I said that some of you guys just don't care about logic or being rational.

You said that to you, the truth is god. The two are the same.. so what is the use of FOLLOWING THE truth/god to find the god/truth?

God = the whole Truth at the end of the road we travel in the pursuit of the Truth. But, of course, we only know some of the Truth. Ergo, we don't know the whole Truth/God....and probably never will.


The truth is what you think your god is?
The truth about what.. GOD?

The whole Truth, God, is everything that exists, including the natural law that controls it, whether it's associated with a super-consciousness or not. And Truth, btw, includes both objective knowledge, and subjective beauty, with justice and love in between.
 

Pudding

Well-Known Member
God = the whole Truth at the end of the road we travel in the pursuit of the Truth. But, of course, we only know some of the Truth. Ergo, we don't know the whole Truth/God....and probably never will.




The whole Truth, God, is everything that exists, including the natural law that controls it, whether it's associated with a super-consciousness or not. And Truth, btw, includes both objective knowledge, and subjective beauty, with justice and love in between.
How do you know Whole Truth equal to God?
How do you know Whole Truth/God is everything that exists? A pencil exists in my pencil box, is the pencil a manifestation of God? Is everyone and everything we see a manifestation of God? How do you know?
 
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