Do you KNOW God does not exist?

[Bunyip]

NEXT!

LOL You give up so easy. Next time, just keep in mind that atheism and theoretical physics are not related.

 

[Blastcat]

I'ma try to make this simple since we disagree on a lot things.

1. Beliefs are not facts
2. We can prove something is a fact based on many factors we use with our senses (and not ALL sense are of the five. Please take that into consideration)

Ok.. We agree on number 1. Beliefs are not facts. We can believe in things that are NOT true.
We don't agree on number two.

IF you are using your SENSES... that's evidence. If YOU can experience something by using your senses.. then that observation should be REPEATABLE as humans share senses. I can sense what you can sense. HOWEVER.. if what you say you sense is ONLY in your imagination.. I won't be able to SENSE that at all.. I don't SHARE the products of your imagination.

3. We disagree. I do not see it harmful that SOME live off of belief in a Non harmful way. I do not see anything illogical on living by belief because a lot of religion is basic psychology. It helps the mind and body together (which means Spirit). It is not supernatural. We just make it fancy.

Irrational thoughts lead to IRRATIONAL behavior. I think that is NOT benign.. and it IS very harmful.

4. Some people believe that their beliefs ARE the Truth; therefore, THEY need no reason to investigate it.

They might not feel the need to go investigate. I agree. They BELIEVE that they have some true knowledge, but this isn't convincing to ANYONE ELSE. That's a huge problem. Their lack of curiosity about their beliefs is most likely going to assure that they are going to be MISTAKEN about some beliefs. But they won't know it... and I guess some of them don't really care that their beliefs might be false.

And FALSE BELIEFS lead to actions that MIGHT NOT BE THE BEST .. I refer you to people who imagine that they are possessed by demons and PAY so much money to fake healers of all kinds and avaricious evangelists that we hear about every day.

WE MUST be able to tell the difference between FACT and FICTION in life, or perish. Lies and fantasies arent REALITY.. and they can be dangerous.
We have to be able to tell the difference between POISON and MEDICINE.. for example.
What's YOUR method that you use to do that.. if NOT investigating the evidence ?

If I wanted to sell you snake oil, for example, but offered you NO evidence that it wasn't POISON... would you give it to your kids?
Or would you NOT buy it... because that's what I do with ANY claim that has zero evidence.. I don't BUY IT.

Do you buy all claims? Would YOU give your kid unverified snake oil just on some guys' TESTIMONY?

"Usually, people investigate when they see something funky with their belief system. Hence, why there are many converted atheist etc. NOT ALL people are like that.

True. Not all people take the trouble to find out if what they believe in is true or not. They just "have" their beliefs, and some of them are quite PROUD to no care about if the beliefs are true or not.

I cannot IMAGINE not caring about the truth of my beliefs.

I understand that you disagree; please, try not to put people down by you opinions because of it (same as believers do just the other way around. Using their belief or opinion and stating it as a FACT to on others) Makes people defensive.

That's fine if they feel defensive, because they SHOULD defend their beliefs. IF I hold to some belief, I should be PREPARED to defend it. Or else.. why bother talking about it? Who CARES about some unverified belief?

But this is what we GET from theists. ALL KINDS of unsupported "truths" ...
All MANNER of unjustified beliefs.

"I never said you had to agree. I said put yourselves in their shoes to UNDERSTAND where they are coming from. I don't agree with Christians. I do try to put myself in their shoes since I have experienced positive things from Christianity and help my friend because of it. I do not agree AND I put myself in their shoes.

Why would you put on a pair of ill fitting shoes just to evaluate some claim for truth?

I don't have to EMPATHIZE with people in order to follow their REASONING. I already empathize with people.
What I am a concerned about is their REASONING..if that's sound, then their method will work for ME TOO... I like learning new things.. BUT if their reasoning isn't sound.. then they might benefit from my telling them so.

Who wants to base their beliefs on FALSEHOODS?

I guess everyone is different. I don't see a need to ask for evidence for something I (okay, I will say believe so you don't have to repeat your point) believe is not there.

You don't feel the need to ask for evidence. Apparently, you might believe any claim at all.

Unless it is in my best interest to know? Maybe I am curious? Maybe those are reasons I would ask. NOT to prove that they are illogical but to LEARN from them about their train of thought.

If their logic is SOUND of course we want to learn from them. If their logic ISN'T sound, then they have NOTHING to teach except how people can have strong beliefs that are false.

Okay. It's low. Very low. How that is coming across is that thee is no such thing as nothing.

I have NO idea where you got this no such thing as nothing from what I wrote to you.
Maybe you care to elaborate where you GOT that from?

EVERYTHING that we claim true has the POSSIBLITY of existing.

Good. We agree. HOWEVER the fact that all things are at LEAST possible... does NOT mean that they are probable or true in any sense.

Even if I said "Rrjlkajsdad is a rat that lives in the ROOnVille down in the county of Sempuki" Instead of dismissing the claim, you (not You) would want to find evidence for it. It's an empty claim. They are words. Why ask for evidence for it.

Because SOME claims are NOT SO obviously ridiculous. BUT your claim is at Least possible. But the PROBABILITY of it being true is INCREDIBLY LOW.
Some claims seem too good to be true. We ask for evidence. If the claim is BOGUS.. then no evidence for it will be available, Why do you think it's not a good METHOD to ask for evidence for claims?

What method DO YOU USE?
I Keep asking you this and I'm not sure you ever bothered to answer that.
I think you mentioned FAITH... So how do you use faith to know if some claim is true or not?

Underlining it all the reasons, I will always wonder why "debate about nothing" (again, if you say there is a 0000.1 possibility, that means claims can exist. Anything can, really. I just throw out a claim, and poof, it has a possibility of existing)

But that possibility is about as LOW as is possible to imagine. Don't get too excited.
It's POSSIBLE that tomorrow you will wake up to a billion dollar inheritance from a rich relative.. but don't get too excited. The chances are actually EXTREMELY low.

There IS NO evidence for God. Why do people keep asking for it?

Because people KEEP claiming that there is. People KEEP saying that they KNOW that god is real. MANY PEOPLE have these unsupported beliefs. If I ask them for their evidence.. it reminds them that they don't REALLY know .. Same with your spirit beliefs. I ask YOU for your evidence. and you don't provide it. It's the same as the theist who says he has evidence but when asked... can't provide any.

People believe in weird things for very bad reasons. I ask them for evidence in order to help them get out from under the oppression of false beliefs that they got most PROBABLY by childhood indoctrination.

I believe your "spirits" beliefs are due to childhood indoctrination. As you say, in YOUR family, spirits were just a part of reality. No questions asked. You were a kid in this family, and you TRUSTED what the adults told you was real. But that doesn't mean that your "spirits" WERE real.. it just means that you were TOLD to believe that they were real.

There's a HUGE difference between childhood indoctrination and FACTS.

Spirituality is NOT based on facts. Christians and like religions see synchronicity in life. We see appreciate what happens out of the blue that gives us blessings (aka good things that we give gratitude on our behalf). We are thankful for living and no matter WHO or WHAT a person believes in, if it leads them to a positive life (rather than 911) and gives them a sense of hope, I HAVE NO REASON to question them for evidence of this belief. It's an insult. It's not like the ball scenario. Beliefs are personal.

But beliefs can be FALSE. Why on EARTH would you want to believe in something that just isn't TRUE?
It seems like you will believe ANY claim at all that anyone makes and NEVER ask people to prove what they say is true.
That's your choice. I don't believe just any claim.
I demand evidence before I believe what they claim.

And that includes your "spirits" claims.
I just don't believe your claims. I demand evidence.
If you can't provide any, I won't believe you.

The italic words are traits of spirituality. (In atheist language, traits for psychological emotional appreciation, etc, of life) Very healthy and normal. Evidence: Ask a doctor.

Many people believe in weird things without asking for evidence. That's recipe for DISASTER.

What is coming across is, for You there is no such thing as facts because they have a 00000.1. (don't know how many 0s you typed) of existing as something else. For example, it is a fact there is nothing in my hand. You gave me that 0000.1 change there could be something.

Yep.That's right.It's possible that you are mistaken for some weird reason.

Now I don't have a fact, I have a belief.

But beliefs can be false. Facts are never false.

It's not a wrong way to think that everything can't be proven as facts. I just think it's interesting.

Sure, it's fun to imagine things. BUT to say that they are true is another matter. If you make a claim that your spirits are TRUE then you have to justify that.. or have that claim rejected.

I agree that we can't know anything with absolute certainty because we just can't know everything there is to know about the universe. BUT that doesn't mean that we can't know ANYTHING.. We DO know a lot of things. And we DO have plenty of evidence for these things.

My brain can't process this.

"Anything cannot be just anything. It's just that we do not know everything. (had to lower the caps)"[

If there is a 0000.1 chance that something is not what is claimed to be a fact, anything can be something else in that 000.1 chance. WHY? Because we don't know everything.​

Please read carefully. I'm not being ironic.

You might think that 0.0000000000001 probability is high. It's not high.. it's EXTREMELY LOW.. so ANY claim that has a very low probability is the same as anything ELSE with extremely low probability. Spirits have a very low probability and so does Santa.. and so does ALLAH and Vishnu, and the Loch Ness Monster and goblins and ghosts and zombies and fairies too.. Do you believe in all of these?

"Just becuase we don't know everything doe snot mean that we don't know anything."

We don't know anything is a fact if we don't know everything is true based on that 000.1 possibility it is not.

Not knowing EVERYTHING does not mean not knowing ANYTHING. So, we agree. Good.
Now.. all you have to understand from what I said is that things that have a HIGH percentage of probability ( like 99.999999999) are MORE believable than things that have a LOW degree of probability ( like 0.00000000001 ).

Note that I say that REALITY has a VERY HIGH probability... the 99.999999999 .. and things that have NO evidence ( like your spirits ) have a very LOW probability the 0.000000000001

Science proves both. Ask any scientist if nothing (absent of the Naked Eye exclusion) is in my hand, he'd probably say yes. There are many factors that DISPROVES that there is something there. Like negatives of a film.

If you'd like to add the 000.1 possibility, cool. My mind is getting older to really think of possibilities. I was thinking of going into that field. Changed my mind. I'm happy with how I believe now.

What field was that, exactly?

IF you actually DO have a film negative, THAT'S great evidence for the film. You DON'T have that kind of evidence for your "spirits" claims. So, I ignore them as bogus.

I'm THRILLED that you are happy with what you believe now. If you want to convince anyone ELSE of your beliefs, you will have to do more than tell us how happy your beliefs make you.

Why are spirits and cell phone different from each other? Because one is supernatural? My family never thought of spirits as supernatural. We consider them A PART OF LIFE.

That you considered something true does not make it so. It sounds to me that you believed your parents.

Since we don't know everything 100 percent, how can I possibly give you evidence that spirits exist that you will accept; how is it possible to know everything so I can pick what evidence you will take?

Give me something that would be close to 99.9 per cent, just like the rest of the evidence I have for real things. I don't NEED 100 per cent to know things are real. But ZERO evidence is FAR from 99 evidence.

Unfortunately, people go on debating about Nothing and trying to find evidence for a claim.

Then you must believe ALL claims, and don't care if they are true or not.
If you don't care about evidence how do you TELL bogus claims from true ones?

What is your METHOD?

I VALUE people living off of belief. I have seen lives saved. I have seen people's lifestyles changed. I have seen what people use in their spiritual terms, miracles.

But these beliefs might be false. We can do wonderful things and save lives by using TRUE beliefs. Some people with very strong beliefs do IRRATIONAL things because of them. I refer you to 9/11 and the Crusades.

I have no reason o convince them m beliefs are true. Believers understand to a certain extent. Pagans relate almost one hundred percent. Atheist, well, no.

If anyone claims to know anything with 100% precision, they are simply mistaken. How can ANYONE claim to know absolutely everything? That's absurd.
And if what a person believes is NOT TRUE.. no amount of CONVICTION on their part will change that fact.

Your beliefs in "spirits" is like that. If you can't being ANY evidence that they are real, no amount of CONVICTION on your part will EVER convince someone that they are real. Until you DO bring good evidence for your spirit claims, I will NOT take them seriously. BUT.. you are FREE to believe whatever nonsense you like for whatever bad reason you choose.

 

[Blastcat]

Why do you first reiterate what I'm saying, and then strain mightily to refute it--to no avail.

I quote what you say in order to be clear. I had to clarify my position, because you misrepresented it.
I don't LIKE to be so utterly misunderstood..

You asked me a question, I ANSWERED IT, you got my answer completely upside down, and I corrected you on what is my TRUE position.

It's important that if you want to accuse me of quibbling that at least you know what I'm talking about.

 

[meshellean]

he is real sadly tho ..... but as the devil in disguise doing good/evil @ the same time with diferant pple just as the fruit represented good/bad so the originator of that tree is also got the good & the bad in him has god as history proves by how many time he demo his good side and the bad another words he is the devil/demon

 

[Sheldon]

The burden of proof is on those who champion one side, the other side, or both.

Whilst this is trivially true, it is a false dichotomy fallacy to assume there are just two sides, you're creating a straw man you know can be easily defeated in order to pretend this is the only other option to your belief, in the irrational pretence this lends credence to your belief.

Atheism is the lack or absence of belief in any deity or deities, and nothing more. Theism is the belief, and atheism the lack or absence of that belief. If someone claims invisible mermaids are everywhere, we don't don't insist the claim is valid until someone disproves it.

Furthermore it is an objective fact that the physical natural universe exists, and that natural phenomena or causes exist. You are the one adding an unevidenced deity, using supernatural and inexplicable magic to that, so apart from the fact this fails Occam's razor, the burden of proof is also entirely yours.