Do you need threats of hell

[mikkel_the_dane]

Meh... People attach way too much importance to the illusion of their sense of selves contained within their egos. Afterlives feel like coping mechanisms for the fear that who we are just disappears once our bodies die. They also feel like coping mechanisms to make us feel better about things we see as unfair

Little Timmy died at the age of 5 due to a painfully drawn out death from bone cancer? He finally gets to live a happy, comfortable life in paradise. Kim Jong Un lives a life of exploitation as a dictator who causes suffering to millions? He'll finally get what's coming to him after he faces punishment when he dies

Ultimately, justice is a social construct that doesn't really exist independent of humanity. We made it up. Naturally, we want to try to extend what we see as fair and right beyond the human sphere and onto everything else around us to make ourselves feel more comfortable. We have no problem even making up scenarios beyond the real world to account for when things don't line up perfectly in the way we like

Maybe I'm wrong, but there's just been too many cases of cult leaders and certain religious institutions using these ideas to control and manipulate people with extreme efficacy. Preying on our fears and discomforts always seems to work

Well, the same as in religion can be observed in some humans, in how they use words like valid, rational, without fallacy and with eivdence. It is in a sense the comfort of feeling better, because of being more rational.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Who gets to decide if peoples needs are met?
That's a pretty tall order, to meet everyone's need. Nice idea but I suspect a pipe dream to meet everyone's needs.
But ok, lets do that.
Still actually a few like stealing and hurting others. Even if a minority, enough to cause the majority problems.

That just ignores the question of what leads to crime. Who gets to decide if people's needs are met? You know what needs are, do you not? The most obvious example is a mother stealing food for her starving kids. It's someone dealing drugs to pay the rent and makes ends meet.
You also ignored how I said if everyone needs are met (we have too much waste for that to be called a pipe dream) then it would largely be down to people with pathological psychologies causing problems.
Try again.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Considering the following:

• The cultures with exclusivists and extremists who would ask this type of question would already not consider me to be a good person because I am an infidel to them.
• Given I have no interest in converting to their cultural exclusivism and extremism, the only possible way for them make me a good person in their view would be to threaten me or bribe me (aka, forced cultural conformity and conversion).

So... I guess that makes it a yes?

Meanwhile, "hell" and "heaven" aren't really a thing in my religion, so... eh?

Extremists? That's a word we shouldn't be dilluting. If they aren't killing and using violence then it isn't extreme.

 

[Nakosis]

That just ignores the question of what leads to crime. Who gets to decide if people's needs are met? You know what needs are, do you not? The most obvious example is a mother stealing food for her starving kids. It's someone dealing drugs to pay the rent and makes ends meet.
You also ignored how I said if everyone needs are met (we have too much waste for that to be called a pipe dream) then it would largely be down to people with pathological psychologies causing problems.
Try again.

I don't know what your needs are. You certainly don't know what my needs are. So how are you going to fulfill them?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't know what your needs are. You certainly don't know what my needs are. So how are you going to fulfill them?

Food? Shelter? Clothing? Was you seriously never taught what needs are and the difference between needs and wants?

 

[Quintessence]

Extremists? That's a word we shouldn't be dilluting. If they aren't killing and using violence then it isn't extreme.

I'm not sure why you equate extremism with killing and violence. It's not "diluting" a word to understand that not putting the word "violent" in front of "extremism" can indicate any sort of extreme.

 

[Nakosis]

Food? Shelter? Clothing? Was you seriously never taught what needs are and the difference between needs and wants?

Yes, you have no idea my needs for food. I don't need to be taught anything to know you are oversimplifying this. I don't know how to afford you the experience to understand differently.

 

[ppp]

Extremists? That's a word we shouldn't be dilluting. If they aren't killing and using violence then it isn't extreme.

I don't think that @Quintessence was diluting the word. Supporting the legal enforcement of doctrinal beliefs is the behavior of extremists.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm not sure why you equate extremism with killing and violence. It's not "diluting" a word to understand that not putting the word "violent" in front of "extremism" can indicate any sort of extreme.

Because extreme actually means something, and it's not a simple belief that all the nonbelievers go to Hell. No, the extremist will make you at least pretend to go along with it or face the consequences. It's not the Muslims who believe the infidel goes to Hell who is an extremist, it's the Muslims waging jihad against the indfidel.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't think that @Quintessence was diluting the word. Supporting the legal enforcement of doctrinal beliefs is the behavior of extremists.

That's not believing people go to Hell.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Do you need threats of hell and rewards/promises of heaven to be a good person?

Or are threats and rewards/promises what humans have always used to get others to see things their way.

Nope. But getting just a taste of it is more than enough inspiration to run far away from it.

 

[InChrist]

Do you need threats of hell and rewards/promises of heaven to be a good person?

Or are threats and rewards/promises what humans have always used to get others to see things their way.

No, I need a Savior, since I realize I can’t be perfectly good on my own.

 

[We Never Know]

No, I need a Savior, since I realize I can’t be perfectly good on my own.

Optimistic frube

 

[Quintessence]

Because extreme actually means something, and it's not a simple belief that all the nonbelievers go to Hell. No, the extremist will make you at least pretend to go along with it or face the consequences. It's not the Muslims who believe the infidel goes to Hell who is an extremist, it's the Muslims waging jihad against the indfidel.

Which... is an illustrative case example of what my post was getting at, so I'm not sure why you are arguing here.

 

[ppp]

That's not believing people go to Hell.

You're right. I should have read closer. I didnt realize that she was being that loosey-goosey.
Though I would argue that the doctrine of Hell if to Christian Extremism as Paternalism, Victim Blaming and Fearing People of Color are to White Supremacy. On the road to violence and genocide thay are in shouting distance.