Do You Support Obama's Plan For More Syrian Refugees.

[esmith]

You are changing the topic because you are cornered. That's cute.

No I'm asking your since it appears that you so concerned with the refugees that you may not be seeing the forest because of the trees. The majority of the refugees would rather go home than another country, therefore to deal with the refugee problem you are going to have to determine what you are going to do about the issues that are causing them to become refugees. Therefore, there are two main issues causing the refugees to flee Syria and these are ISIS and the current civil war. At this time the US is not directly involved in the civil war but is directly involved with the ISIS problem. Therefore I asked the following.
Let's ask a very simple question.
Do any of you want the threat of ISIS removed and not "just contained"
If you want the threat of ISIS removed how do you propose to do it without putting someones ground troops and civilians in harms way.
Note: there is a very simplistic answer to the question but a complex answer to how to go about doing the simplistic answer.


You and the others that are concerned about the refugees and want to take them in and are completely ignoring the issues causing the refugees.

 

[Quetzal]

Therefore, there are two main issues causing the refugees to flee Syria and these are ISIS and the current civil war. At this time the US is not directly involved in the civil war but is directly involved with the ISIS problem.

Well, at least now you are accepting the basic fact that the US has some responsibility for the refugee problem. Progress.

Do any of you want the threat of ISIS removed and not "just contained"
If you want the threat of ISIS removed how do you propose to do it without putting someones ground troops and civilians in harms way.

I have already addressed why these are fruitless questions, but feel free to continue to repeat them.

You and the others that are concerned about the refugees and want to take them in and are completely ignoring the issues causing the refugees.

Oh come on, these causes are... how did you put it...

minuscule

minuscule

minuscule

 

[esmith]

Well, at least now you are accepting the basic fact that the US has some responsibility for the refugee problem. Progress.


I have already addressed why these are fruitless questions, but feel free to continue to repeat them.


Oh come on, these causes are... how did you put it...

Ok, why are the citizens of Syria fleeing their homeland. And no I don't feel like going back and finding what you said in the past.
If you do not want to discuss the why's then forget it.

 

[Quetzal]

Ok, why are the citizens of Syria fleeing their homeland. And no I don't feel like going back and finding what you said in the past.
If you do not want to discuss the why's then forget it.

Here you go!

 

[esmith]

Here you go!

So condensing it says
Because they are afraid. Correct?
It is a civil war that came about with the Arab Spring to start with. Correct?
Then we have those fleeing ISIS. Correct?

So, you want the fighting to stop and allow the refugees to go home. Correct?

So, all we have to do is stop the fighting. In other words leave ISIS alone for point one. The other point is either get rid of Assad or let him continue to run the country. Seems that is what Russia and Iran wants him to stay. So I would assume you are willing to go along with the wishes of Iran and Russia. Correct?

 

[Aquitaine]

Let's ask a very simple question.
Do any of you want the threat of ISIS removed and not "just contained"
If you want the threat of ISIS removed how do you propose to do it without putting someones ground troops and civilians in harms way.

We can start by analyzing what we did wrong in relation to creating this mess, then implement policies that restrict our governments from engaging in such activities in the future. Although it may not do much against ISIS 1.0, it would probably prevent ISIS 2.0 and 3.0 from emerging at least.

Think long term, reduce meddling, reduce blowback.

 

[Quetzal]

So condensing it says
Because they are afraid. Correct?
It is a civil war that came about with the Arab Spring to start with. Correct?
Then we have those fleeing ISIS. Correct?

So, you want the fighting to stop and allow the refugees to go home. Correct?

So, all we have to do is stop the fighting. In other words leave ISIS alone for point one. The other point is either get rid of Assad or let him continue to run the country. Seems that is what Russia and Iran wants him to stay. So I would assume you are willing to go along with the wishes of Iran and Russia. Correct?

You can draw whatever conclusions you want from the information. I am not going to sit here and write a 15,000 word foreign policy survey to satisfy your questioning. You just aren't worth it.

 

[esmith]

You can draw whatever conclusions you want from the information. I am not going to sit here and write a 15,000 word foreign policy survey to satisfy your questioning. You just aren't worth it.

Nah, I'll be satisfied with a simple yes or no.
Or admit that the U.S. is not responsible for the mass exodus of the citizens of Syria. I know you want to admit it, so go ahead; However, I do understand why you don't want to admit the truth.

Now, I will give you one of the major reasons I do not support accepting refugees from Syria.
It is their country, if they don't have the stomach to fight for their country I sure don't want them here. Now I'm not talking about those too young or feeble, I talking about the able body men and woman that can.

 

[MARCELLO]

I have mixed feelings.

On one side, there is a real concern over infiltration of Syrian cells into the nation with intent to do grevious harm. The Goverment has the obligation to protect its citizenry first and foremost. No exceptions.

On the other hand, there are a number of Syrians that are harmless and need to seek refuge in a country away from danger. I'd likely go for emulating Canada's policy and exclude all fighting capable males from a particular age range from participating in any type of refugee program, and focus primarily on taking in sponsored women and children after a strict screening process to determine health and threat levels as it applies to public safety and security.

What impact did the US have. Facts please.

Vietnam, Iraq,North Korea...etc....

 

[Midnight Rain]

Let's ask a very simple question.
Do any of you want the threat of ISIS removed and not "just contained"
If you want the threat of ISIS removed how do you propose to do it without putting someones ground troops and civilians in harms way.

There is a problem with this line of thinking. ISIS isn't just a body of people. It is an idea that has spread like a wildfire. It has taken all of the military action in several regions (mostly spearheaded by the US starting back in 2001) and used it as gasoline for the massive dumpster-fire that is the pseudo nation ISIS. It isn't a country of people that we can simply go make surrender. It is a dangerously powerful ideology. You have two options. Wipe the people off the face of the planet. Find some other way without inciting war. Simply combating the extremists has only stoked the fire of hatred in the Middle East.

The US gave freedom fighters guns. They urged them to overthrow Assad. Now that they have they have turned into ISIS who is just as bad if not worse.

 

[metis]

I do believe that we as a free nation have a responsibility to try and help as best as we can, but not to do so in a reckless manner. The overall plan by the administration appears to be quite sound.

 

[esmith]

I do believe that we as a free nation have a responsibility to try and help as best as we can, but not to do so in a reckless manner. The overall plan by the administration appears to be quite sound.

and what plan is that?

 

[esmith]

There is a problem with this line of thinking. ISIS isn't just a body of people. It is an idea that has spread like a wildfire. It has taken all of the military action in several regions (mostly spearheaded by the US starting back in 2001) and used it as gasoline for the massive dumpster-fire that is the pseudo nation ISIS. It isn't a country of people that we can simply go make surrender. It is a dangerously powerful ideology. You have two options. Wipe the people off the face of the planet. Find some other way without inciting war. Simply combating the extremists has only stoked the fire of hatred in the Middle East.

The US gave freedom fighters guns. They urged them to overthrow Assad. Now that they have they have turned into ISIS who is just as bad if not worse.

Seems that you have not studied some history. The "Islamic Caliphate" goes back to the 7th century CE
http://www.timemaps.com/civilization/Islamic-Caliphate
http://qz.com/546973/only-a-real-islamic-caliphate-can-stand-up-to-the-sham-of-isil/
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...new-islamic-caliphate-201462917326669749.html

So after reading this do you really think that the involvement by the U.S. is what the current ideological battle between Muslims is what brought about ISIS? Do you think that the U.S. and the West really is the main driving factor in this religious ideological battle? I think you are given to much "bad" credit to the U.S. for the century's old disagreement within the Muslim world. Yes the U.S. along with Europe has caused problems, but they are not the cause of what the Islamic State wants or believes.

 

[metis]

and what plan is that?

It has already been spelled out as of a few months ago.

 

[esmith]

It has already been spelled out as of a few months ago.

OK I'll give you that. But is it working? Now let's not use the administrations view, but how about your honest view not clouded by prejudices.

 

[metis]

OK I'll give you that. But is it working? Now let's not use the administrations view, but how about your honest view not clouded by prejudices.

My view was not "clouded by prejudices" but, instead, by my strong feeling that we need to be compassionate and caring for innocent victims, including putting those feelings into action versus just meaningless talk.

How about you?

 

[esmith]

My view was not "clouded by prejudices" but, instead, by my strong feeling that we need to be compassionate and caring for innocent victims, including putting those feelings into action versus just meaningless talk.

How about you?

I think that the Obama's plan is to pass the problem onto the next President and he does not want his legacy damaged by doing anything other than talking.

 

[metis]

I think that the Obama's plan is to pass the problem onto the next President and he does not want his legacy damaged by doing anything other than talking.

I don't at all agree with you as we have seen that he has been more than willing to take even very controversial actions on various matters.

 

[Midnight Rain]

Seems that you have not studied some history. The "Islamic Caliphate" goes back to the 7th century CE
http://www.timemaps.com/civilization/Islamic-Caliphate
http://qz.com/546973/only-a-real-islamic-caliphate-can-stand-up-to-the-sham-of-isil/
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...new-islamic-caliphate-201462917326669749.html

So after reading this do you really think that the involvement by the U.S. is what the current ideological battle between Muslims is what brought about ISIS? Do you think that the U.S. and the West really is the main driving factor in this religious ideological battle? I think you are given to much "bad" credit to the U.S. for the century's old disagreement within the Muslim world. Yes the U.S. along with Europe has caused problems, but they are not the cause of what the Islamic State wants or believes.

I don't think anyone can say that Islamic violence hasn't existed prior to all of this but if you think that the Middle East was like this since the 7th century then you are dangerously mistaken. Lets take Baghdad for instance. I know we are getting slightly off the Syrian train but I promise this has a point. In Baghdad it wasn't such a terrible place prior to the US invasion. It had a ****ty government and high religious laws but it was a functioning normal city that sold cars, had full scale electricity that ran through the city, public water, ect. It was as modern as a western city in terms of technology and economy. Now its a steaming pile of ****. Syria itself is also a similar situation.

This is a hell of a read. I just found it today. I learned quite a lot in addition to what I knew already.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/terrorists-or-freedom-fighters-recruited-by-the-cia/5429766

 

[Sapiens]

Taking in more refugees will entail some risks. But if we do not do so the current situation will get worse and will produce more and more people who are willing to kill and even die themselves. The only way to stop these people is to win the hearts and minds of the vast majority and reduce the terrorists to the status of a aberrant blip on the radar that is policed, effectively, by their own countrymen. The USA, with the best of intentions, has a ****-poor record of trying to accomplish this mission. We, as a people, sit back and try to rest on the laurels of our intentions when or actions do not match up ... can you say "cognitive dissonance?" The best book to come out the Southeast Asia Friendship Games of the 60s and early 70s was: A Bright Shining Lie: John Paul Vann and America in Vietnam by Neil Sheehan. I recommend it to all and suggest that it be read carefully and the lessons that it teaches be applied creatively. That really, in the end, is out only hope.

There are disengagements about who gets credit for the quote, "When you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow," but in this day and age of suicide bombers who are happy, if you squeeze, to kill themselves just to kill you, requires a more nuanced approach fighting an asymmetric war and, "making the world safe for democracy."