Do you think a god will forgive you?

[InChrist]

The biblical portrayal of God is most certainly petty, vindictive, and sociopathic.

I don’t think so.

 

[InChrist]

John 3:36, “Whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” Wrath is vindictive.

Numbers 16:31-35
New King James Version

31 Now it came to pass, as he finished speaking all these words, that the ground split apart under them, 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households and all the men with Korah, with all their goods. 33 So they and all those with them went down alive into the pit; the earth closed over them, and they perished from among the assembly. 34 Then all Israel who were around them fled at their cry, for they said, “Lest the earth swallow us up also!”

35 And a fire came out from the Lord and consumed the two hundred and fifty men who were offering incense.

So floods, disasters, plagues, punishments, wrathfulness...none of that is vindictive?

No, not vindictive. It’s called Judgement. And it’s important to note, that this thread is about forgiveness…a theme which runs consistently throughout the scriptures. God will forgive anyone who turns from their wicked, sinful ways seeking change and reconciliation.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And rightly God should be angry and jealous when humans in their foolishness descend into evil or idiotic idol worship. His anger and/or jealousy is not selfish human emotion, rather it is based in love, truth, and concern for the wellbeing of His creation.

Why is God a jealous God? | GotQuestions.org

Why is God a jealous God? What does it mean that God is jealous? Isn’t jealousy wrong?

www.gotquestions.org

That's what abusive parents tell their kids. They beat their kids because they love them. The abusive husband shows concern to his wife by beating her as a means of guidance.
A god getting angry over what humans do is absurd. If this god is that far above us how can this be a good thing?

 

[InChrist]

That's what abusive parents tell their kids. They beat their kids because they love them. The abusive husband shows concern to his wife by beating her as a means of guidance.
A god getting angry over what humans do is absurd. If this god is that far above us how can this be a good thing?

God is not a finite human being. You are conflating the actions of an Eternal, Infinite, Holy Being with those of finite, sinful human beings. It doesn’t work that way and there is no legitimate comparison between between human sinful, abusive behavior and God’s righteousness judgment upon evil.

 

[lukethethird]

Whatever. You are saying that if the world were flat (which it isn’t, nor do the scriptures ever indicate such nonsense) that someone could go to a high mountain in Israel and see all the way over to say Spain in one direction or China in the other.
Again your argument is nonsense. Anyone standing on a mountain realizes that the human eye can see only so far before details are washed out into the horizon.
Any person living in ancient times would have realized that he could not see far enough, under any normal circumstances, to see all of the kingdoms of the world. So clearly the passage and encounter between Christ and the devil is meant to be read in light of its supernatural context.

Your other attempted reference to imply God as vindictive fails, as well. The passage clearly states: “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them”.
That is not vindictiveness, rather judgement. God is the final and ultimate Judge with perfect wisdom and has every right to determine when or how evil should dealt with.

Condoning the behaviour of this cosmic tyrant and justifying his thorough abuse and violence of all living creatures is despicable. It's obvious people like you use The Bible to justify such wicked behaviour. You really have a way of bringing out the disgusting and violent side of religion.

 

[InChrist]

Condoning the behaviour of this cosmic tyrant and justifying his thorough abuse and violence of all living creatures is despicable. It's obvious people like you use The Bible to justify such wicked behaviour. You really have a way of bringing out the disgusting and violent side of religion.

I am not condoning behavior of a cosmic tyrant or justifying abuse…that would be satan who encourages sin, abuse and violence. I’m agreeing with the Creator of heaven and earth, the just and righteous Judge. So do you think human evil should be unchecked? Should God let sin and violence run rampant for eternity?

 

[Father Heathen]

I don’t think so.

Yeah, it's pretty grotesque and repugnant.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

God is not a finite human being. You are conflating the actions of an Eternal, Infinite, Holy Being with those of finite, sinful human beings. It doesn’t work that way and there is no legitimate comparison between between human sinful, abusive behavior and God’s righteousness judgment upon evil.

Yeah, it is comparable when a god acts like a douchy, abusive, authoritarian tyrant. Wanting people killed for picking up sticks on a certain day? Killing kids for calling someone baldy? Holding in high regard a man who offered his own daughters to a gang for raping?
That's worse than most humans.

 

[InChrist]

Yeah, it is comparable when a god acts like a douchy, abusive, authoritarian tyrant. Wanting people killed for picking up sticks on a certain day? Killing kids for calling someone baldy? Holding in high regard a man who offered his own daughters to a gang for raping?
That's worse than most humans.

Do you really think that an Almighty, omnipotent, omniscient God that claims to have created heaven and earth, to have inspired the words of Scripture, and to be the very Source of Love would have included accounts in the pages of the scriptures just so that you or other God haters would have material to accuse Him of evil? Don’t you think you are possibly missing something?

It’s so easy to throw out superficial accusations and mischaracterizations, but it only shows ignorance. Each account you’ve tried to refer to with your slanted attack against God has a purpose for being included in the scriptures, which obviously you don’t even begin to comprehend and clearly have no intention or interest in understanding. So discussing those aspects of the Bible with you is a waste of time, besides a diversion from the thread about God’s forgiveness.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do you really think that an Almighty, omnipotent, omniscient God that claims to have created heaven and earth, to have inspired the words of Scripture, and to be the very Source of Love would have included accounts in the pages of the scriptures just so that you or other God haters would have material to accuse Him of evil? Don’t you think you are possibly missing something?

It’s so easy to throw out superficial accusations and mischaracterizations, but it only shows ignorance. Each account you’ve tried to refer to with your slanted attack against God has a purpose for being included in the scriptures, which obviously you don’t even begin to comprehend and clearly have no intention or interest in understanding. So discussing those aspects of the Bible with you is a waste of time, besides a diversion from the thread about God’s forgiveness.

Sounds like an abusive boyfriend.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Sounds like an abusive boyfriend.

Or an abusive parent. As a former Christian and survivor of childhood abuse, I believe that if the biblical God exists, he can descend to the earth's deepest abyss and remain there indefinitely. If he exists, then I don't believe that he is deserving of anyone's love, reverence, praise, or worship, least of all mine.

 

[Exaltist Ethan]

As a syntheist I believe God isn't as much of a being as it an action, or an action of a being, as exampled in human extropy or natural entropy. Actions have a way of raising or lowering the divinity of things, and of course, we as a species will find a way to cumulate the most amount of divine extropy as we cultivate alien worlds and space throughout the galaxy and further than that. Everybody, from the most innocent child, to the Pope, to Hitler, will be able to contribute to this new reality as all will be resurrected through the miracles of engineering and technology, but by the time we unload all the information of the world's leading information gatherers they, whether they like it or not, will be changed and moved by this experience. Some will choose to stand up, and lead their way through countless unexplored worlds, others will choose a life an hedonistic life, never choosing to leave Earth and its abundance, and yet others will choose not to exist in this new reality. So it is less about whether God will save people, as it is if people will actually save themselves by the time this new reality emerges.

 

[Bird123]

Forgive? There is nothing to forgive. God is counting on all our screw ups to teach us what not to do. When one understands all sides, Intelligence will make the Best choices.

Religion, in an attempt to alter your choices and actions, will convince you how rotten and sinful you are. Can religion see no goodness? Must everyone be rotten? This pulls followers closer to seek help. That's why they do it.

People can make some really bad choices that hurt all involved. Asking forgiveness can make people feel better. This can lead to emotional healing in some cases. As for God, it has never ever been about forgiveness. It's about education.

So how are you doing? Getting better? Maybe you aren't as rotten as some led you to believe. Nurture the goodness in you. When you spread that to others, everyone will learn and grow together. Share that which is truly Special about you with others.

This world isn't a rotten mess. It is a Masterpiece!! Remove your hate that they taught you and look again. It stares us all in the face.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Or an abusive parent.

Yup. Love is love and it doesn't require excuses, justifications and "just trust me." I've known many humans who have shown infinitely more love and compassion towards humans than the god of the Bible. He's ruthless, cruel and blood thirsty. Innocent infants are not even safe from him, and his worshipers are known for twisting it into something that is righteous and beyond our comprehension.
That's just not righteous though, and it most certainly is not love. Especially commanding someone to kill their child. If it were from any other source it would rightfully be viewed as psychotic, horrifying amd the person ordering it would be on 99% of everyone's hate list. But because it's from the Bible, because it's their god, it's turned into a harrowing tale of complete and total trust in god, to levels that are a feature of cults.

 

[lukethethird]

I am not condoning behavior of a cosmic tyrant or justifying abuse…that would be satan who encourages sin, abuse and violence. I’m agreeing with the Creator of heaven and earth, the just and righteous Judge. So do you think human evil should be unchecked? Should God let sin and violence run rampant for eternit

That's despicable.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I am not condoning behavior of a cosmic tyrant or justifying abuse…that would be satan who encourages sin, abuse and violence. I’m agreeing with the Creator of heaven and earth, the just and righteous Judge. So do you think human evil should be unchecked? Should God let sin and violence run rampant for eternity?

Most of what your god considers sin, yes. He should let them run rampant.

 

[Nakosis]

None of us are perfect and most of us have sinned.
Do you think a god will forgive you?

I don't think a God needs to or ought to be in a position to forgive. I'd assume the God we are talking about takes responsibility for creation and everything in it. Should the potter forgive the pot they made it it turns out to be ugly?

I'm not sure what being perfect is supposed to mean. Being something other than what you are?
How do you know this is not what God wanted us to be?

 

[Muffled]

None of us are perfect and most of us have sinned.
Do you think a god will forgive you?

I know God has forgiven me and continually does because my forgiveness is eealed i His blood and my sins are nailed to the cross.

 

[Muffled]

If God is just then God will recognise that our faults are given to us by either God or nature and won't hold them against us.

In my opinion.

I believe justice requires God to punish sins. That is why forgiveness must erase my sins so there is nothing to punish.

 

[Muffled]

Big claim, but this being Kali Yuga (Yuga of the wicked and messed up people) you might be on to something

If sinned means "go against one's conscience" then this seems true to me

I believe some people have an evil conscience.