Do you think Moses existed as a historical figure?

[Greatest I am]

As I said, it would depend on who you are talking to whether Jewish or Christian. As a believer, I don't preach Original Sin (which has too many misconceptions) but rather the ability to be joined in union with God as Adam had before he decided to be independent of God. As an ambassador, I simply announce that God's righteousness is a gift and you can have it too.

Which, as I think about it, when did I mention "Original sin"? Or was that something that was taught you?

It was taught me. I was born R.C.

As to God's righteousness, what righteousness do you see in a God who promises to destroy the vast majority of those he has created and supposedly loves? The bible God is a genocidal son murderer. How is that righteous and how did a righteous Christianity become a misogynous homophobic religion?

You must have special glasses to see it as righteous or having a righteous God.

Regards
DL

 

[Kenny]

He is considered a literary creation.

Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By the beginning of the 21st century, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'


the biblical texts reflected first millennium conditions and concerns

Yes... you can find someone who believes that. Most Jewish people believe he is historical as well as most Christians.

 

[Kenny]

It was taught me. I was born R.C.

As to God's righteousness, what righteousness do you see in a God who promises to destroy the vast majority of those he has created and supposedly loves? The bible God is a genocidal son murderer. How is that righteous and how did a righteous Christianity become a misogynous homophobic religion?

You must have special glasses to see it as righteous or having a righteous God.

Regards
DL

I don't agree with your position although with a R.C. background, I can understand why you would come to that conclusion. If you interpret the Bible through the eyes of Jesus Christ, we come to a different conclusion.

i.e. "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.".

 

[outhouse]

Yes... you can find someone who believes that. Most Jewish people believe he is historical as well as most Christians.

So uneducated apologist, carry the same weight as Professors?

 

[Greatest I am]

I don't agree with your position although with a R.C. background, I can understand why you would come to that conclusion. If you interpret the Bible through the eyes of Jesus Christ, we come to a different conclusion.

i.e. "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.".

So you think that God would be so stupid, immoral and so heartless that he would needlessly have his son murdered to appease his own wrath.

Would you do that or would you have the balls to step up to appease your own miss-guided wrath?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Yes... you can find someone who believes that. Most Jewish people believe he is historical as well as most Christians.

I see this as a lie.

Here is why.

RaceandHistory.com - Doubting the Story of Exodus

Have you ever spoken with Jews?

Most think that all the biblical characters pop up in every generation.

That is why Jesus would ask his disciples, who do they say I am, and the reply included long dead prophets.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

If any here would like to debate the morality of the Exodus or how God was immoral in killing the first born of Egypt, and how Moses should have argued against God on that immoral act, I am here to do that.

I think God an evil demiurge and have no problems showing that exact fact from scriptures.

If O.P. minds this slight divergence, please let me know and I will disappear.

Regards
DL

 

[Kenny]

So uneducated apologist, carry the same weight as Professors?

Do you know the thousands of educated apologists and professors who agree with my position?

 

[outhouse]

Do you know the thousands of educated apologists

have ZERO credibility in historical studies. Popularity FACTUALLY does not dictate accuracy.

and professors who agree with my position?

Provides sources I think your full of it.

 

[outhouse]

So uneducated apologist, carry the same weight as Professors?

 

[Kenny]

I see this as a lie.

Here is why.

RaceandHistory.com - Doubting the Story of Exodus

Have you ever spoken with Jews?

Most think that all the biblical characters pop up in every generation.

That is why Jesus would ask his disciples, who do they say I am, and the reply included long dead prophets.

Regards
DL

Yes, I understand. And as time presses on, I will agree that it will continue to grow in that direction. Perhaps in a thousand years they will have eradicated all the vestiges of the Holocaust and say it didn't happen too.

and, yes, I have spoken with Jews. Some believe and some don't. Then there are Jews who are atheists as there are some that are Hasidic and everything in between.

 

[Kenny]

So you think that God would be so stupid, immoral and so heartless that he would needlessly have his son murdered to appease his own wrath.

Would you do that or would you have the balls to step up to appease your own miss-guided wrath?

Regards
DL

So, you are a person that knows all things, understands all things and has all the answers. If we want to look at "miss-guided" - God didn't murder His son... we did.

Let's look at it differently...

"No greater love hath a man that he give his life for another."

Same act but looked with a different perspective. I see him as a hero for dying for me and saving me.

 

[Kenny]

have ZERO credibility in historical studies. Popularity FACTUALLY does not dictate accuracy.



Provides sources I think your full of it.

Actually, I have quoted many historical studies that confirm the historical context. You might want to start reading the thread from the beginning. There are thousands. As a matter of fact, many of the discoveries were found by associating locations by what the Bible said.

 

[Greatest I am]

So, you are a person that knows all things, understands all things and has all the answers. If we want to look at "miss-guided" - God didn't murder His son... we did.

Let's look at it differently...

"No greater love hath a man that he give his life for another."

Same act but looked with a different perspective. I see him as a hero for dying for me and saving me.

Then you are a fool because he condemned you and then turned around to die for you.

Seems you are easily impressed by the dishonorable act of a judge who will accept the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty.

You are right that "No greater love hath a man that he give his life for another."

Your God though did not even love his son enough to die for him and in fact had him murdered.

You can try to blame men for that but your God was watching it all and is less responsible than men because no human father would be so callous and un-loving.

I will not change your moral view as it has been corrupted by your religion. You follow Satan and call him God because only Satan would ask you to accept the punishment of an innocent man instead ofthe guilty.

Regards
DL

 

[outhouse]

Actually, I have quoted many historical studies that confirm the historical context.

Now try something that is actually credible please.

 

[Kenny]

Now try something that is actually credible please.

My sources were credible. Remember, it was you that just dismissed them just because it went contrary to your philosophical position.

 

[outhouse]

My sources were credible.

No they factually are not credible for historical studies.

It is why you have provided no credible sources backing each statement.

Because you cannot.

 

[Kenny]

No they factually are not credible for historical studies.

It is why you have provided no credible sources backing each statement.

Because you cannot.

I don't want to involve myself in circular arguments.

 

[outhouse]

I don't want to involve myself in circular arguments.

Its all you have.

I have all of academia behind me.

Moses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

While the general narrative of the Exodus and the conquest of the Promised Land may be remotely rooted in historical events, the figure of Moses as a leader of the Israelites in these events cannot be substantiated.

1. ^ Who Were the Early Israelites? by William G. Dever (William B. Eerdmans Publishing, Grand Rapids, MI, 2003)

1. Jump up ^The Bible Unearthed by Neil Asher Silberman and Israel Finkelstein (Simon and Schuster, New York, 2001)

1. Jump up ^"''False Testament''by Daniel Lazare (Harper's Magazine, New York, May 2002)". Harpers.org. Retrieved 2010-10-11.

1. Jump up ^"Archaeology and the Hebrew Scriptures".

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you know the thousands of educated apologists and professors who agree with my position?

How many "educated apologists and professors" believe that a group of Israelites so large that if just the men stood shoulder-to-shoulder they would span the width of the Sinai peninsula managed to wander this peninsula for 40 years?

This story - like the Jesus story - is one where the religious significance is based on the miracle claims but the historical scholarship is not. There may very well be some Jewish leader who literally existed and who had the Exodus story glommed onto him. But from a religious perspective, such a person is irrelevant unless the miracle claims are true.