Do you think Moses existed as a historical figure?

[outhouse]

?

might be

It is all you have. a question mark and a might be.


and since it is from someone who is a known apologist who carries little credibility, good luck with that.

Eilat Mazar is known to be biased.

and regarding her identification of the city wall at the site at that time,

As she admits, the chronological data recovered in her excavations indicate that the sole Iron Age fortification system extending in this area was in use during the 8th−7th centuries BCE. However, according to the biblical sources the Solomonic city-wall must have passed here, hence [she maintains] the fortification system in question must be Solomonic in date.[11]

Mazar was also cautioned by epigrapher Ryan Byrne following the 2008 confusion over the inscription on the Shelomit seal,

In the mad dash to report biblical artifacts to the public or connect discoveries with the most obscure persons or events reported in the Bible, there is sometimes a tendency to compromise the analytical caution that objects of such value so dearly deserve

 

[Kenny]

OOPS! I think you poopied your diapers- you might try reading before you speak.


"Tel Aviv University archaeologist Israel Finkelstein, who was not involved in the excavation, agrees that it's possible King Solomon constructed the wall."

And Finkelstein is one of your favorites, or are you anti-science?

 

[outhouse]

you might try reading before you speak.

You need to learn English words, like possible


Finkelstein cautioned against leaning too heavily on the Bible to interpret the findings

 

[Kenny]

You need to learn English words, like possible


Finkelstein cautioned against leaning too heavily on the Bible to interpret the findings

Nice two step... you said "There is no historicity of Solomon". But now we find the walls he built. What was your mythical story again about Solomon's Proverbs that you learned at Yale?

A simpleton like me, messing with Mr. Gifted.

Remember, I'm the one who was flexible enough to say "Both opinions are valid--let's just wait and see. "Possible" is in my vocabulary. You are the fanatical "SOLOMON DOESN'T EXIST" - with no "possible" included in your vocabulary.

I can work with "possible".

 

[outhouse]

"There is no historicity of Solomon".

Correct.

". But now we find the walls he built

Possible walls dated to 1000BC, does not give Solomon any historicity what so ever.

It means people lived there around 1000 BC, and we know they did.

Israelites started as a culture after 1200 BC and at that time they were proto Israelites.

 

[Kenny]

Correct.



Possible walls dated to 1000BC, does not give Solomon any historicity what so ever.

It means people lived there around 1000 BC, and we know they did.

Israelites started as a culture after 1200 BC and at that time they were proto Israelites.

Flat=earth thinking no matter what science uncovered.

 

[outhouse]

the figure of Moses as a leader of the Israelites in these events cannot be substantiated.

 

[outhouse]

Flat=earth thinking no matter what science uncovered.

So to apologist possible means fact

 

[Kenny]

the figure of Moses as a leader of the Israelites in these events cannot be substantiated.

We have agreed on this fact. It doesn't mean he didn't exist, it simply means we don't have definitive archaeological evidence. But that area is in its infancy in Israel.

 

[outhouse]

But that area is in its infancy in Israel.

No, it is one of the most dug area on the planet, and has more people that study this then any other subject in history.

The temple mount has not been dug, but moses historicity does not lie there anyway

Historians have given up looking as it has been deemed a fruitless pursuit. It sin its grave after hundreds of years of apologetic failure.

It doesn't mean he didn't exist, it simply means we don't have definitive archaeological evidence

That's the problem you wont face. We have evidence. We have overwhelming amounts of evidence that the exodus was an impossibility, and never took place as written.

We have evidence it is a theological piece not a historical one.

 

[outhouse]

Here's your sign

The Exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most histories of ancient Israel no longer consider information about the Exodus recoverable or even relevant to the story of Israel's emergence

The consensus among biblical scholars today is that there was never any exodus of the proportions described in the Bible

 

[psychoslice]

To me its sad that we let literalism blind us from the deep metaphors of the bible, why wast time trying to prove something that cannot be proven, let it go and see further than you have ever seen before, you might learn something.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Let me see if I understand. Moses is a myth but King Josiah was real. The stories in the Bible were made up but Jesus was a real figure. We can't trust what was written but we believe what it says about the Canaanites. The history isn't true but we accept its accounts about "in war time people would rally around Yahweh but still holding on to polytheism".

So you have basically said everything that is written in the Tanakh but we don't accept it as historical data.

Got it!!

If Moses was a myth
It means the fall of Islam
Because the God of Islam, announced this myth also in the Qur'an ???

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

If any here would like to debate the morality of the Exodus or how God was immoral in killing the first born of Egypt, and how Moses should have argued against God on that immoral act, I am here to do that.

I think God an evil demiurge and have no problems showing that exact fact from scriptures.

If O.P. minds this slight divergence, please let me know and I will disappear.

Regards
DL

This picture of the story of Joseph
Yes Joseph story is written in the Torah
But the question is why the Koran also admitted ???

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

The Old Testament is a book in which the history of the people
The Jewish people or the Hebrews
It is the oldest of the Hyksos
Certainly the Bible quoted the history of this people
God in the Torah is that it protects the children of Israel from their enemies
God does everything in his ability
God in the Torah is fully God
Because he does not need a man
Christian presented a different image of God
God of Christianity is to love God and to all mankind
For this you know this
Also
To know who is the God of Christianity
Look for God in Christianity

 

[Greatest I am]

This picture of the story of Joseph
Yes Joseph story is written in the Torah
But the question is why the Koran also admitted ???

In a word, --- Power.

Association with prophets or holy men, even Jesus is always a good starting position. We do the same today by name dropping.

It is always easier to add to a tradition than to create a whole new one. My sales and marketing career taught me this.

Can you imagine Jesus trying to impose a dress code on women and being with a bunch of virgins in heaven?

Yuk. I do not think Islam is doing much for Jesus' reputation.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I think we have found proof of the Exodus and that it excluded any miracles.


The literality of the Exodus has been satisfactorily answered. It is a myth.


I have always had a problem with the notion that God would have hardened Pharaoh’s soft heart and pave the way for him to kill/murder the first born of Egypt. For God to do so would have been evil indeed.

From what I can see, the Jews who wrote the story did not take it literally. It follows that Christians who do are reading it wrong and God is not genocidal.


RaceandHistory.com - Doubting the Story of Exodus


Instead of God being a genocidal God, I prefer to think that this information on the Hyksos Expulsion is correct. God would will that.

Better to read myths as myths and keep the myth of God being good a myth.


Regards

DL

 

[Kenny]

Here's your sign

The Exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most histories of ancient Israel no longer consider information about the Exodus recoverable or even relevant to the story of Israel's emergence

The consensus among biblical scholars today is that there was never any exodus of the proportions described in the Bible

I prefer waiting since "most" does not mean "all" and "consensus" was wrong about King David and Solomon

 

[Kenny]

I


I have always had a problem with the notion that God would have hardened Pharaoh’s soft heart and pave the way for him to kill/murder the first born of Egypt. For God to do so would have been evil indeed.

That's because you are reading a translation and even with a western mind-set. I can understand why you would come to that position however wrong it might be.

According to Hebrew scholar Young in his Hebrew Analytical Concordance, it was translated in the causative sense instead of the permissive tense.

I
From what I can see, the Jews who wrote the story did not take it literally. It follows that Christians who do are reading it wrong and God is not genocidal.


Regards

DL

I also agree that God is not genocidal. It isn't His nature.

 

[Greatest I am]

That's because you are reading a translation and even with a western mind-set. I can understand why you would come to that position however wrong it might be.

According to Hebrew scholar Young in his Hebrew Analytical Concordance, it was translated in the causative sense instead of the permissive tense.


I also agree that God is not genocidal. It isn't His nature.

Seems you do not believe much of what Exodus says. That is good because it is a myth.

God will be pleased that he is not the prick scriptures make him out to be and Noah will be pleased that he did not have to be a traitor to humanity by colluding with a genocidal God.

Is there anything in scriptures that you believe?

Regards
DL