What about also recognizing the limitations of mystical intuition itself?
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Do You Think the Tao is God?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
What about also recognizing the limitations of mystical intuition itself?
No, I wouldn't call the Tao a deity of any kind. It most definitely isn't the Abrahamic Deity.
The question is defeated before it is asked. "Tao is..." or "Tao isn't..." is mu.
That's the way of things.
Not with the Abrahamic caricature, but the god of Judaism, perhaps.
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The tao is the source of the myriad of named things, in this sense it can be seen as God but I hesitate to equate tao with a conscious deity. Whatever it might be, it is the way of things, how things flow since the beginning, with will but without effort.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The Tao is that which is greater than us, yet includes us. Sounds like a God-concept to me...
That's what I was thinking. I've studied a small bit about Taoism and I never heard it (the Tao) as a deity.
Perhaps it sounds like one, but is it one when no sense of self-awareness, or of awareness of any sort, is ascribed to it?
I agree, but there is no assurance that the authors of he Tao Teh Ching thought of the Tao as god.
Odion said:
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Sure! AFAIK, the whole goal of Taoism is ultimate self-awareness, becoming one with the universe, or whatever.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Yeah, there's no assurance of that. The Tao Te Ching definitely appears to be write of the Tao in somewhat theistic terms, in my opinion. But again, I think it depends on one's understanding of what God is.
In a polytheistic society, I don't know if one could call it God accurately, and many Westerners also fall into the man on the cloud anthromorphic conception of the Divine, which the Tao isn't.
Of course, it will be argued. I mean, people argue about whether Confucius believed Heaven was a divinity or not, and I would've thought that was a pretty cut-and-dry yes, but the battle rages on.
Maybe more of an infinite/objective reality or transcendent force, rather than an omnipotent or omnibenevolent creator. So in the eastern sense, I would think the Tao can be considered "god", but definitely not in the western sense.
Some days Tao is God to me, other days Tao is just God's Way. There's not too big of a difference anyways.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Good point; I don't see much of a distinction either. Sounds like you've got a good thread there.
There is no ultimate goal of enlightenment or salvation in philosophical Taoism. If anything, it's accepting things as they flow, living with simplicity, celebrating natural diversity, and utilizing skill in psychological engagement.
You all realize, of course, we're not having this discussion?
The Tao that can be spoken is not the Eternal Tao...
The Tao that can be spoken is not the Eternal Tao...
You all realize, of course, we're not having this discussion?
The Tao that can be spoken is not the Eternal Tao...
Yeah, the Great Tao follows its own ways and ultimately transcends human language and comprehension. I'm going to pull a Laozi and talk about it anyway because language is natural. The Great Tao is the sum total of all guidance and/or effects in the universe.
Tao can be understood as the way that things reliably operate in the sense of guidance itself or in the actual operation. We can only offer near-synonyms in English as the ancient Chinese seldom spoke of definitions. Possible synonyms could be way, course, method, manner, mode, means, and practice.
In so far as the term God refers to some unknown meaning or purpose of nature, or a guide that operates in natural and human action, then we could probably say that us philosophical Taoists do believe in a God of sorts. However, it's more or less a metaphor for natural law.
Religious Taoism does take it a little further and may treat the conception of God as being everywhere all at once. However, Taoist religiosity expresses itself in awe of nature rather than in reverence for some imagined creator or author of nature. In many respects, the differences between the purely philosophical and the more mystical/religious Taoism are similar to the subtle differences between modern atheists and pantheists.
Yep, there are two forms of Taoism, philosophical and religious. Religious Taoism is based on Chinese traditional religion (folk religion sounds pejorative), which is nature based and non-dogmatic. Very reverential and almost deist, if not outright deist. Personally I'm beginning to be drawn more towards this philosophy (again), even wrt to Hinduism. I've been rebelling and railing against all the dogma and doctrines, do's and don'ts and "everyone-has-an-opinion". I've quoted the Hua Hu Ching elsewhere (part of ch. 47):
Blind spirituality is unreal.
Chanting is no more holy than listening to the
murmur of a stream; counting prayer beads no more
sacred than simply breathing; religious robes no
more spiritual than work clothes.
If you wish to attain oneness with the Tao, dont get
caught up in spiritual superficialities.
Instead, live a quiet and simple life, free of ideas and
concepts.
Blind spirituality is unreal.
Chanting is no more holy than listening to the
murmur of a stream; counting prayer beads no more
sacred than simply breathing; religious robes no
more spiritual than work clothes.
If you wish to attain oneness with the Tao, dont get
caught up in spiritual superficialities.
Instead, live a quiet and simple life, free of ideas and
concepts.
I also like this attitude, from CHINESE GODS OF WEALTH: How To Set Up A Taoist Altar
GUIDE FOR WESTERN FOLKS
You do not need to follow exactly how the Chinese pray to their Deities.The above is a general knowledge on how the Chinese do their prayers.
Example ... When Hindus pray to Chinese Deities [my note: that will give some people a cerebral hemorrhage
In Taoism/Buddhism/Hinduism , what matter most is Your Heart, Mind and Soul in Your trust and believe that the deities have the power to protect You and bring Your prosperity and also understand the teachings of the individual Deities.
Most important is the Taoist Deity Statue or Statues MUST BE CONSECRATED or at least there is a TALISMAN to EMPOWER the ALTAR and an Incense Urn to burn Incense.
How You will like to decorate Your Altar is to Your own liking.
TAOISM never force anyone to follow exactly the "Standard Way Of Praying". Praying to Deities of different faith are allowed to be placed together and then blend into Your own Culture and pray the way You feel comfortable with.