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Do You Think the Tao is God?

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Yep, there are two forms of Taoism, philosophical and religious. Religious Taoism is based on Chinese traditional religion (folk religion sounds pejorative), which is nature based and non-dogmatic. Very reverential and almost deist, if not outright deist. Personally I'm beginning to be drawn more towards this philosophy (again), even wrt to Hinduism. I've been rebelling and railing against all the dogma and doctrines, do's and don'ts and "everyone-has-an-opinion". I've quoted the Hua Hu Ching elsewhere (part of ch. 47):

Blind spirituality is unreal.
Chanting is no more holy than listening to the
murmur of a stream; counting prayer beads no more
sacred than simply breathing; religious robes no
more spiritual than work clothes.
If you wish to attain oneness with the Tao, don’t get
caught up in spiritual superficialities.
Instead, live a quiet and simple life, free of ideas and
concepts.

Good for you! The most stability and well-being in my life has come from practicing the philosophy of Taoism. I don't really agree with a deistic interpretation, but I do accept a diversity of views.

It does seem like the school of Laozi promoted a return to some naive primitivism and abandonment of all language. For this reason among others, I don't treat the Tao te Ching as some infallible holy book.

I do primarily follow the teachings of Zhuangzi and consider other Taoist authors to be secondary. They definitely do have more insight to offer, but I interpret them in relation to the purely philosophical. Most forms of mysticism are misguided in my opinion. Flow, aka psychological engagement, is the only form that I find to be compatible with philosophical discourse and intellectual honesty.
 

Penumbra

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So far as I understand it, the Tao precedes all deities. That is, the Tao is not itself a deity, but merely the way of things, and the way of things existed before any deities arose. But what do think the Tao is? Are you in agreement with those who equate the Tao with the Abrahamic deity -- or with any deity? If so, why? If not, why not?
In my reading of the Tao Te Ching, it doesn't look like Tao is described as a deity, especially not an anthropomorphized deity. It may be thought of as including consciousness or intention as a fundamental aspect of reality rather than thinking of those things as emergent property of biological minds, in which case some descriptions of deities, like Brahman, may be applicable.

I view their description of Tao essentially as what Hindus view Brahman to be, or what the Stoics refer to as seminal Logos- the mysterious transcendent basis from which all of reality comes into from or perhaps secondary only to nature. It's described as coming before Heaven and Earth, but with the cyclical worldview that Taoism tends to adhere to, that's probably not intended as a literal description of linearity, but instead more of a hierarchy of absoluteness. Whether or to what extent it includes consciousness is probably a point of discussion; Brahman is defined primarily as consciousness itself while Stoic Logos is described as being reason, and Tao seems to be a bit more left open for interpretation.

Even from a non-religious perspective, seeing as how the fabric of spacetime itself and all matter/energy in it apparently expanded from something akin to a mathematical singularity before which the idea of "time" or "space" may not even be applicable, an ambiguous indescribable Tao or Logos is a relevant concept for representing "the way things are". It's a useful term for some element of existence that apparently transcends space and time in a way that a human mind born of spacetime cannot comprehend, and sets the law on which the universe somehow relies on or is born from.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
The Fellowship of the Ring regarding Tom Bombadil:

"Who is Tom Bombadil? He just is."

What is the Tao? It just is.
 
Taoism explains in paradoxes the concept of non-duality and that this is something ordinary humans do not realize in their normal mundane life.
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Taoism explains in paradoxes the concept of non-duality and that this is something ordinary humans do not realize in their normal mundane life.

Yes, it does convey this with apparent paradoxes caused by limitations in ordinary perception. Coupled with the non-dual experience is the realization of non-linearity. Enter modern quantum physics.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
I think Tao = Brahman.

Chapter 1 of the Tao Te Ching:
The Tao that can be spoken is not the Eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the Eternal Name.
The Tao and Brahman are ineffable. It cannot be known, only experienced.
The Nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth. The ground of all being.
The named is the mother of myriad things. The creator God, perhaps Ishvara.

Just my view.

similar.
 

nash8

Da man, when I walk thru!
I think if "Great Tao" was replaced by "quantum mechanics" in that sentence it would still work, and I wouldn't refer to quantum mechanics as god.

Agreed. Accept that I think it is the closest we can come to understanding The Great Tao. Understanding the Great Tao in full would be to understand how all of these quantum interactions work, and we are far from that, thus The Great Tao still can not be spoken of.

And this was a very good topic Sunstone, kudos to you sir.
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Fair enough. It's probably more important that we share a common understanding of language. I'll roll with this interpretation for the time being.
Well, now, understand that I'm in no way trying to hammer the concept of Tao into the Christian concept of God. I think both "God" and "Tao" are different expressions of the same concept of "that which transcends humanity and humanity's understanding." In fact, I may actually identify more with the Tao concept than I do with the standard God concept of an old man with a white beard, sitting on a cloud. The only possible exception would be that I believe that there is some kind of consciousness there that we don't particularly apprehend.
 

nash8

Da man, when I walk thru!
Sooo...
A Jedi would be one who attains omnipresent, super-galactic oneness?:yoda:

One with omnipresent super galactic oneness a jedi he would be.

Have you ever tried talking like Yoda for an extended period of time, it's a lot harder than one might think lol.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
One with omnipresent super galactic oneness a jedi he would be.

Have you ever tried talking like Yoda for an extended period of time, it's a lot harder than one might think lol.

Because his speech pattern doesn't consistently follow SOV (subject-object-verb), SVO (subject-verb-object), VSO, or any other patterns in natural languages. On a linguist site they were even scratching their heads as to the pattern.

If figure it out you do, interested in knowing we would be. :D
 

nash8

Da man, when I walk thru!
Because his speech pattern doesn't consistently follow SOV (subject-object-verb), SVO (subject-verb-object), VSO, or any other patterns in natural languages. On a linguist site they were even scratching their heads as to the pattern.

If figure it out you do, interested in knowing we would be. :D

Wow, the linguistic patterns of Yoda. That would definitely be something I was interested in. When I become rich and powerful one day and/or obtain enlightenment that will definitely be one of my focuses. I'm not going to lie, I'm probably going to take a look at it tonight too, but I can already see myself getting lost in that, and I have enough things I'm already lost in lol.
 

Breathe

Hostis humani generis
Because his speech pattern doesn't consistently follow SOV (subject-object-verb), SVO (subject-verb-object), VSO, or any other patterns in natural languages. On a linguist site they were even scratching their heads as to the pattern.
Looks like it alternates between OSV and standard English.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Wow, the linguistic patterns of Yoda. That would definitely be something I was interested in. When I become rich and powerful one day and/or obtain enlightenment that will definitely be one of my focuses. I'm not going to lie, I'm probably going to take a look at it tonight too, but I can already see myself getting lost in that, and I have enough things I'm already lost in lol.

Here's something else to tickle your fancy. When the Ewoks say "Yubyum", that's Tibetan for "Father-Mother", the Tibetan Buddhist representation of male and female. Yab-Yum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I don't know why GL used it, but I read that it confused the hell out of some Tibetans (or Tibetan Buddhists) who saw the movie, heard the phrase and thought "wtf!?" :D

vajrasattva-yuganadha-sergey-noskov.jpg
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Looks like it alternates between OSV and standard English.

Yeah, inconsistently. I'll bet someone has already started a thesis on it. :D

"When 900 years old you become, look as good you will not."

If it were translated into Sanskrit, the free word order would be perfectly grammatical. My favorite example is Govindam adi-purusham tam aham bhajami (which George Harrison set to music for the London Radha-Krishna Temple).

It is literally Govinda (Govindam) original lord (adi-purusham) he/that (tam) I (aham) worship (bhajami). All in the accusative because "Govinda the original lord" is the object of "I worship". "Aham bhajami Govindam tam adi-purusham" doesn't have quite the poetic ring.

So George Lucas could be taking a page from Sanskrit, Classical Greek, or Classical Latin, which are all highly inflected and have virtually free word order.

But as usual this thread is not hijacked, so... :run:
 

nash8

Da man, when I walk thru!
It is my personal opinon that star wars is full of spirtual references. I personally think that Yoda was a reference to the Jewish diety YHVH.

Yoda = the first two letters of the Jewish diety when spelled out YH.

Wasn't GL Jewish?

On any note, Star Wars is definitely a lot deeper than it seems to be on initial inspection. Maybe GL was enlightened and was trying to portray the secrets to all religions through the movie Star Wars. Strangers things have happened I guess lol.
 
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