Do you think there is a God? If so, why?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Irrelevant if you don't make the effort to obtain a bottle.

And how do you know I haven't? In fact, how do you know I didn't seek God?

I don't remember this (though I almost just remember my grandmother) that for a time, after the first time my stepfather tried to kill me, I lived with my grandmother. But she died when I was just 4 years and 3 weeks old. My Children's Aid records at the time show that the wish I expressed most was that I could die, so I could go to heaven and be with her. (As it happens, now I even know her name -- just found out this year -- Mildred Parkhurst was her maiden name -- her married surname same as mine, so I won't mention it here.)

That wish was not granted -- although my step-father did give it another try when I was just 7. And that's when I was removed from family forever. You might imagine my disappointment.

 

[PureX]

So that is the question. Do you think there is a God? Please describe how you envision this God. Thank you.

I have no way of knowing, so I let my own needs and circumstances determine how I think and feel about the God possibility at any given time.

I do not envision (imagine) God as any particular thing because for me that feels disingenuous. I prefer to let the glorious mystery be a glorious mystery. I do, however, ascribe what I consider to be positive values to the realm of the 'divine' which, if there is a God, I would expect it to be aligned. These divine values show up in our realm of being as love, forgiveness, kindness, honesty, wisdom and generosity. So as I witness and experience these, I think of them as aspects of God, if God exists.

 

[MikeF]

Do we, though?

You interact with things in your dreams. Do these dream things exist?

Hmmm. Do we interact in our dreams in a literally physical way? This goes back to your recommending I be more clear in distinguishing between the objective and subjective. The abstractions of thought do not entail the physical properties of whatever they are meant to represent. You can fly in a dream because it is not a you, it is your brains abstract construction of you. Nor do the things in your dream have any other property physical property than being a mental state.

 

[Nakosis]

So that is the question. Do you think there is a God? Please describe how you envision this God. Thank you.

Depends on how you define God.
I define a God as a mental entity created by the sub-conscious mind for the conscious mind to believe in.

This God is usually a composite of all of the religious idealism you feel comfortable with. The sub-conscious mind provides you all of the necessary feelings to convince you this God exists.

Generally I don't think about a God because I don't want to give my sub-conscious mind any more ammunition to go about convincing me there is a God.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Depends on how you define God.
I define a God as a mental entity created by the sub-conscious mind for the conscious mind to believe in.

This God is usually a composite of all of the religious idealism you feel comfortable with. The sub-conscious mind provides you all of the necessary feelings to convince you this God exists.

Generally I don't think about a God because I don't want to give my sub-conscious mind any more ammunition to go about convincing me there is a God.

You don’t trust your unconcious mind? But presumably do trust your conscious mind?

 

[Nakosis]

You don’t trust your unconcious mind? But presumably do trust your conscious mind?

I trust my unconscious to act according to its nature and my conscious mind to act according to its nature.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So that is the question. Do you think there is a God? Please describe how you envision this God. Thank you.

No.

And the reason I doubt, is because I have no reason to.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Well, because you have no reason to. Perhaps others, such as myself, have a reason to.

That certainly is possible.

However, when we ask such people what their reason is, we never get satisfying or valid answers.

It always comes down to either "because I believe it" or because of some fallacious reason (cognition errors like the false positive or confusing correlation for causation, or just plain old fallacious arguments like special pleading, argument from ignorance, argument from authority, argument from popularity, emotional reasoning, etc....)


So while it is possible other people have valid reasons, none of them has ever presented such reasons.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Nothing would exist without god.

No god would exist without extra-dimensional pixies.




I can make empty unverifiable statements also.

 

[ChristineM]

So that is the question. Do you think there is a God? Please describe how you envision this God. Thank you.

No,
I don't see any evidence or reason to think otherwise. On the contrary, i see much in this world to suggest no such beast exists.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If one interacts with god, then they will believe. We agree?

Agree, with a small correction:

If one believes to interacts with god, then they will believe.

Now here's my question:

Beliefs can be wrong, agree?


Consider the amount of people who believe they have interacted with gods (or other supernatural entities) that are incompatible with yours.
Incompatible in the since of: you can't both be correct.

Surely you are aware that such people exist, pretty much all over the world. A very large amount of them, in fact.
What does that tell us? Well... 2 things:
1. you can't all be correct, but you CAN all be wrong
2. this method all of you use to base your beliefs on, is unreliable

 

[MikeF]

I trust my unconscious to act according to its nature and my conscious mind to act according to its nature.

I would look at it as not being a slave to biological instinct. Have the unconscious or instinct etc flow through a concious filter of reason.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Hmmm. Do we interact in our dreams in a literally physical way? This goes back to your recommending I be more clear in distinguishing between the objective and subjective. The abstractions of thought do not entail the physical properties of whatever they are meant to represent. You can fly in a dream because it is not a you, it is your brains abstract construction of you. Nor do the things in your dream have any other property physical property than being a mental state.

There are no 'abstractions' from the perspective of your dream character. From your dream character's perspective, yes, you interact in a literal, physical way. From your dream character's perspective, you 'know' things you are interacting with exist. It's only once you awaken from the dream that you realize what you interacted with was only an appearance in the dreamer's mind.

You know with 100% certainty that what you interact with in this transactional reality exists. Are you 100% certain that you, the body mind you, is the highest principle? Are you completely certain that there is not a higher Self that you have yet to realize? To 'awaken' to?

 

[Nakosis]

There are no 'abstractions' from the perspective of your dream character. From your dream character's perspective, yes, you interact in a literal, physical way. From your dream character's perspective, you 'know' things you are interacting with exist. It's only once you awaken from the dream that you realize what you interacted with was only an appearance in the dreamer's mind.

You know with 100% certainty that what you interact with in this transactional reality exists. Are you 100% certain that you, the body mind you, is the highest principle? Are you completely certain that there is not a higher Self that you have yet to realize? To 'awaken' to?

I'm not completely certain of anything, are you.

However there is no reason to believe that a higher self exists until there is.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I'm not completely certain of anything, are you.

However there is no reason to believe that a higher self exists until there is.

If one realizes a higher Self exists, there is no reason to believe.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I'm not completely certain of anything, are you.

However there is no reason to believe that a higher self exists until there is.

Well, you are certain of your capitalism. Have you answered yet?

 

[MikeF]

There are no 'abstractions' from the perspective of your dream character.

That does not deny that they still are, in fact, abstractions.

You know with 100% certainty that what you interact with in this transactional reality exists. Are you 100% certain that you, the body mind you, is the highest principle? Are you completely certain that there is not a higher Self that you have yet to realize? To 'awaken' to?

Yes. Simply imagining something in the abstractions of our brains does not, in and of itself, make it possible. Since abstractions have no properties themselves, only limited by the physical mental states of a functioning brain, we can imagine things that do not exist in physical reality, and things that are impossible to exist in physical reality.

One does not have to entertain the infinite set of impossibility as possible.

If you want to claim that the "dream world" exists but is not "physical", I simply direct you back to the fact that no abstraction exists without a functioning brain ... which is physical.

 

[Nakosis]

Well, you are certain of your capitalism. Have you answered yet?

90% certain. That is still not completely certain.
Complete certainty requires faith. That's not my style.

 

[Nakosis]

If one realizes a higher Self exists, there is no reason to believe.

If one hasn't, there is still no reason to believe.
So it seems there is never a reason to believe.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That does not deny that they still are, in fact, abstractions.



Yes. Simply imagining something in the abstractions of our brains does not, in and of itself, make it possible. Since abstractions have no properties themselves, only limited by the physical mental states of a functioning brain, we can imagine things that do not exist in physical reality, and things that are impossible to exist in physical reality.

One does not have to entertain the infinite set of impossibility as possible.

If you want to claim that the "dream world" exists but is not "physical", I simply direct you back to the fact that no abstraction exists without a functioning brain ... which is physical.

Well, there is the Thomas theorem and that happens a lot of this forum. And yes we both do that.
Yeah, but physical as the root is a human behavior with limits just like any other human behavior. And if everything is physical, then "No, it is not" is also physical.
Or "No, it is not" is not physical. You are doing in effect an over-reduction of all cases of happening in the world as only real if observed and fitting your brain. The problem is that if we took you and I and placed us in brain scanners for these debate both brains are real and thus the thoughts are real for us both and you are as always observing and inferring that what I do is both real and not real. Go figure.