Do you understand the New Testament

[AK4]

free spirit
In Genesis 3: 17 we read, "Then to Adam he said. "because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you saying, you shall not eat from it. Cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life."
It sound like a judgment and sentence to me all wrapped into one.

True. Yet it just seems to me the only real judgment/penalty God gave was that he would surely die and that was given before this happened. God cursed the ground for what Adam did. Adam personally wasn’t judge though. Ya see what im saying? Just throwing something out there. What do you think?

These are speculations, "Adam chose to die with Eve because he loved her." Remember they did not know good or evil, so they did not know love or hate.
those things came after the eating of the fruit.
I don’t believe that. The scriptures are “God-breathe”/ “inspired”. So if God inspired Paul to write this I believe God was trying to give us incite to what was happening back then. Also I believe He did love her because he was longing for a mate, God acknowledged it was not good for the man to be alone, and said I’ll make him a mate.
Heres a couple of translations that show that Adam was longing for a mate and then “at last finally someone for me” Adam says.
The New World Translation say, “This is at last bone of my bone.”

The New American Version says, “This one at last is bone of my bone.”

The New Revised Standard Version says, “This at last is bone of my bone.”

The Living Bible say and I like this one, “This is it!”
Again I don’t believe the earth was created in six days also because the word days also means age and then there is other proofs in scripture to show that it couldn’t have been six literal days. And even science backs up the scripture of it not being literally six days.
But anyways can you see any spiritual connection in all this? How God is longing for a compliment, a counterpart, someone to compliment someone (the analogy Paul uses to show Christ and His church). It says a counterpart in the Greek, a compliment, or a help meet. A counter part for Adam that was not found, now he has a compliment, a counterpart to him, to make him complete.

That’s what God is longing for. Where is it going to come from? Out of Him. He has one Son, Jesus Christ, we are sons in the making.


again speculation, Adam listened to the voice of his wife instead of the voice of his conscience.
1 Tim 2:14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
You don’t believe this verse?
Besides you say “he didn’t listen to the voice of his conscience”. Now think about what you just said. And you also said before eating the fruit He didn’t know good or evil. What could his conscience tell him that would have kept him from eating the fruit if he didn’t know good or evil until he ate the fruit? You are basically saying he had some sort of knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit. So your argument doesn’t fit. Now if he just did it out of love of a mate he was refusing to loose after he waited so long for (just as Christ has been waiting sooooo long)well…. You be the judge.
Also note that that they both notice they were naked and to be naked has a spiritual meaning of being carnally minded.






I do not know; but God's plan is to beget himself a family, so a family member has to grow up to be equal to the father. So he did things which are a mystery to us, but in the end we will know as we have been known.

I know I know the answer its just alluding me right now. I will get back to this when it comes.

 

[free spirit]

free spirit
In Genesis 3: 17 we read, "Then to Adam he said. "because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you saying, you shall not eat from it. Cursed is the ground because of you; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life."
It sound like a judgment and sentence to me all wrapped into one.

True. Yet it just seems to me the only real judgment/penalty God gave was that he would surely die and that was given before this happened. God cursed the ground for what Adam did. Adam personally wasn’t judge though. Ya see what im saying? Just throwing something out there. What do you think?

To die was the penalty for eating the fruit and that is a given, the hard labor is the judgment for Adam, and for Eve the judgment was she will labor in pain to give birth and she is made to obey Adam. Also they did not became aware of their nakedness until Adam eat, furthermore Eve was taken out of Adam so humanity had one beginning.

"Adam chose to die with Eve because he loved her."

These are speculations, Remember they did not know good or evil, so they did not know love or hate. those things came after the eating of the fruit.

I don’t believe that. The scriptures are “God-breathe”/ “inspired”. So if God inspired Paul to write this I believe God was trying to give us incite to what was happening back then. Also I believe He did love her because he was longing for a mate, God acknowledged it was not good for the man to be alone, and said I’ll make him a mate.
Heres a couple of translations that show that Adam was longing for a mate and then “at last finally someone for me” Adam says.
The New World Translation say, “This is at last bone of my bone.”

The New American Version says, “This one at last is bone of my bone.”

The New Revised Standard Version says, “This at last is bone of my bone.”

The Living Bible say and I like this one, “This is it!”
It is better like this "Waoooooooooo this is it!"

My NASB says " this is now bone of my bones. and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man."

Again I don’t believe the earth was created in six days also because the word days also means age and then there is other proofs in scripture to show that it couldn’t have been six literal days. And even science backs up the scripture of it not being literally six days.

Peter said that with the lord one thousand years is as one day, but I was not there, to me it is good to know that, "in the beginning God" time is not important.

But anyways can you see any spiritual connection in all this? How God is longing for a compliment, a counterpart, someone to compliment someone (the analogy Paul uses to show Christ and His church). It says a counterpart in the Greek, a compliment, or a help meet. A counter part for Adam that was not found, now he has a compliment, a counterpart to him, to make him complete.
Yes the church is the body of Christ, the one that loves his wife loves his own body.

That’s what God is longing for. Where is it going to come from? Out of Him. He has one Son, Jesus Christ, we are sons in the making.

Yes we are sons to be made perfect with Christ, and in Christ.
God's plan is to have a family that can grow up to be equal to him, his plan is perfect because we are called to became children , Romans 8: 17, "and if children, heirs also, heirs of god and fellow heirs with Christ if indeed we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him."

1 Tim 2:14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.
You don’t believe this verse?
Besides you say “he didn’t listen to the voice of his conscience”. Now think about what you just said. And you also said before eating the fruit He didn’t know good or evil. What could his conscience tell him that would have kept him from eating the fruit if he didn’t know good or evil until he ate the fruit?

Adam knew not to eat the fruit, But good an evil he did not, because when one acquire that knowledge we have the conscience of God. like a child he is not aware of good and evil so he is not responsible for his auctions.

You are basically saying he had some sort of knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit. So your argument doesn’t fit.

He knew that one commandment.

Now if he just did it out of love of a mate he was refusing to loose after he waited so long for (just as Christ has been waiting sooooo long)well…. You be the judge.
Also note that that they both notice they were naked and to be naked has a spiritual meaning of being carnally minded.

An animal is naked but it is not ashamed because it is not cognoscente of being naked, because animals do not know good and evil, I repeat we were made in the image of God, by the gift of intelligent reason through the word that was given to us; after the fruit God said, "Behold man has became like one of us."





I do not know; but God's plan is to beget himself a family, so a family member has to grow up to be equal to the father. So he did things which are a mystery to us, but in the end we will know as we have been known.

 

[Carico]

God established the length of a day and night by how long he created the sun to rise and set in Genesis. That's why it's no coincidence that the 7 day week is based on the 6 day creation and 7th day rest. So Genesis describes perfectly what God created each day of the 7 day week.

 

[free spirit]

God established the length of a day and night by how long he created the sun to rise and set in Genesis. That's why it's no coincidence that the 7 day week is based on the 6 day creation and 7th day rest. So Genesis describes perfectly what God created each day of the 7 day week.

Welcome to this thread Carico
Yes you are correct Genesis is clear; but how are we to understand Peter 3: 8, in which we read, "But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years; and a thousand years as one day." I believe that with the beginning of days time became important for man, but God time has no beginning and no end.

 

[gnostic]

Yep I have been here for a fiew days now but I have allready being wounded, it is war out there the ardest of them are the religious devotees, that is not new I guess because only religious devottes will kill a holy man like 2000 years ago.
Well I am Mr. averige nothing special eccept that I understand the New Terstament and that gets me into trouble all the time. Yep they even use my poor spelling to get at me. I am allergic to pain so if it doesn't get to hot I stay.

Hi Free Spirit

If you post something in the debate sections of the forum, you are bound to get argumentative responses or criticism with some issues more than others. It really depends on the topic.

If you don't want the stresses that goes with any debate, then I would suggest that you go and post your topics in the discussion areas. Discussion forums barred people from criticizing people and religions, however, it is less interesting than the debate forums.

Avoid the following forums at RF:

• Religious Debates
  • General Religious Debates
  • Scriptural Debates
    • Biblical Debates
    • Qur'anic Debates
  • Same Faith Debates
  • Science vs Religion
  • Evolution vs Creationism

The discussion forums IS EVERY BELOW all the Religious Debates forums.

Do you understand the New Testament?

Only to some degrees. It really depends on what part of the NT you are talking about.

 

[free spirit]

Hi Free Spirit

If you post something in the debate sections of the forum, you are bound to get argumentative responses or criticism with some issues more than others. It really depends on the topic.

If you don't want the stresses that goes with any debate, then I would suggest that you go and post your topics in the discussion areas. Discussion forums barred people from criticizing people and religions, however, it is less interesting than the debate forums.

Avoid the following forums at RF:

• Religious Debates
  • General Religious Debates
  • Scriptural Debates
    • Biblical Debates
    • Qur'anic Debates
  • Same Faith Debates
  • Science vs Religion
  • Evolution vs Creationism

Thanks for the tips but I have come to termes with the usceness of debate.

Only to some degrees. It really depends on what part of the NT you are talking about.

If you understand the new testament you understand God.

 

[AK4]

To die was the penalty for eating the fruit and that is a given, the hard labor is the judgment for Adam, and for Eve the judgment was she will labor in pain to give birth and she is made to obey Adam. Also they did not became aware of their nakedness until Adam eat, furthermore Eve was taken out of Adam so humanity had one beginning.

Yes i believe this judgment was more of a spiritual death than physical, hence their nakedness. It also just doesnt fit that Adam and Eve were the very first humans. They had to be the very first of a "certain kind" that God created, hence "there are two seeds on the earth"

 

[AK4]

Welcome to this thread Carico
Yes you are correct Genesis is clear; but how are we to understand Peter 3: 8, in which we read, "But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years; and a thousand years as one day." I believe that with the beginning of days time became important for man, but God time has no beginning and no end.

The six "days" of creation has to be six periods or ages. The word day in hebrew also means a long period etc. etc. Also notice that Genesis 1:1 is not part of the creation "days"

 

[free spirit]

To die was the penalty for eating the fruit and that is a given, the hard labor is the judgment for Adam, and for Eve the judgment was she will labor in pain to give birth and she is made to obey Adam. Also they did not became aware of their nakedness until Adam eat, furthermore Eve was taken out of Adam so humanity had one beginning.

Yes i believe this judgment was more of a spiritual death than physical, hence their nakedness. It also just doesnt fit that Adam and Eve were the very first humans. They had to be the very first of a "certain kind" that God created, hence "there are two seeds on the earth"

which two seeds?

 

[AK4]

sojourner
Truth is perceived, understood and expressed differently by different people.

Just because one perceive something to be a truth don’t make it a truth. That’s why its called deception/delusion. Just because you perceive, understand and express the trinity as a truth don’t make it true. Once again, can the deceived know theyre deceived?

I know, I know what youll say….all of us in the church cant be wrong or something along those lines….well to believe that the church of Babylon is infallible well….

The only difference between you and me is an openness to the exegetical approach that gains us greater insight.

Okay I do have an openness to exegesis IF it is helpful to the study. To understand the parable of Lazurus and the richman took this and to know who exactly was the five brothers he was referring to for example

Rather, those who believe in Christ are called "Christians."

To—may—to, to---mah---to

The only evidence you've shown is made up in your own head, out of whole cloth.

No I showed you multiple scriptures where even if a child read what you said and what the scripture says, they would see how you contradict it. Your pride refuses to let you see how much you contradict scripture.

We don't take anything from God. We simply receive what God gives us.

Just for fun….

Mt 11:29Take my yoke upon you and learn from me,

Vines expository dictionary
Take
airo "to lift, carry, take up or away," occurs very frequently with its literal meanings. In John_1:29 it is used of Christ as "the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world," not the sins, but sin, that which has existed from the time of the Fall, and in regard to which God has had judicial dealings with the world; through the expiatory sacrifice of Christ the sin of the world will be replaced by everlasting righteousness; cp. the plural, "sins," in 1_John_3:5. Righteous judgment was "taken away" from Christ at human tribunals, and His life, while voluntarily given by Himself (John_10:17,18), was "taken (from the earth)," Acts_8:33 (quoted from the Sept. of Isaiah_53:8). In John_15:2 it is used in the Lord's statement, "Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit, He taketh it away." This does not contemplate members of the "body" of Christ, but those who (just as a graft which being inserted, does not "abide" or "strike") are merely professed followers, giving only the appearance of being joined to the parent stem.
The Law described in Col_2:14 as "the bond written in ordinances that was against us," Christ "took" out of the way at His Cross. In 1_Cor_5:2, airo is used in the best texts (some have exairo), of the Divine judgment which would have been exercised in "taking away" from the church the incestuous delinquent, had they mourned before God. See AWAY, airo_under_BEAR, etc.

"Because it's a basic tenet of our belief" is a real good place to start for explaining why there's a Biblical tenet for this creedal statement.

See that’s what im saying. To say “he descended down to hell” and what the word hell has come to mean makes it unscriptural, yet you don’t want to acknowledge this.

All I can say is that you have indicated that we can't argue with what is in the Bible. It's in the Bible. Therefore, you can't argue with it.

So you believe these hundreds of translations out there are infallible? Or are you just sticking with the kJV?

No, but I embrace the Bible which contains contradictory accounts and statements.

After you embrace them, then what do you do? Do you search out the truth of what it should say, you know like man searching for that pearl of great price? Or do you just accept whatever the church says it is supposed to be?

Again, you're not in a position to make that judgment.

Tell me, if someone is speaking the opposite of what the scriptures say and teach are they part of the true church of God?

You're misdirecting here.
Are you saying that we should still see God as a warrior-king, who lives on a mountain and hurls fire and smoke at our enemies? That believers have altered their perspective is evident in scripture itself, moving from that kind of God to a God Incarnate in a helpless and disenfranchised baby.

Not at all. A baby? You still see Him as a baby? Nah you cant truly still see him like that. To see Him as a warrior-king is wrong I believe because when you see that His words are spirit and you see the spirit of prophecy and not the literal of prophecy you will see the Love of it all. When you see the spiritual of it all, you don’t see death and destruction/warrior-king. He is SYMBOLIZED like one but in reality He comes differently.

Reconciliation to God has nothing to do with the free will issue. We can choose to embrace that state of affairs, or not.

How not? With the doctrine of freewill people would be able to reject Gods salvation. With the doctrine of freewill they can reject Christ/never choose to come to Christ if they are not willing.

Even in your statement that prompted the previous post you admit the it God who will cause people to come to Him. Therefore if it was caused, then it wasn’t free. He will make your will His will. And His will is to save all, although in this age He allows most to go against His will. Surely you can see all this at least.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I've been gone for three weeks and still the dogs are chasing their tails.

 

[AK4]

freespirit
which two seeds?

The seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman

(Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

John 8:38-45
38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: F19 for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

 

[Buttons*]

I've been gone for three weeks and still the dogs are chasing their tails.

welcome to RF....?

 

[sojourner]

I've been gone for three weeks and still the dogs are chasing their tails.

You spin me right 'round, baby, right 'round,
Like a record, baby, right 'round, 'round, 'round...
:band:

 

[Oberon]

I've been gone for three weeks

I was wondering what that empty feeling in my soul was...

 

[sojourner]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous
I've been gone for three weeks

Did you bring us back something nice?

 

[free spirit]

to ak4

the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman

(gen 3:15 and i will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

ak4, there is not another seed of humanity, god is speaking about the seed of adam and the seed of eve; in other words the seed of adam is planted with the lust of the flesh, but the seed of the woman is relised avery mounth withou the use of the lust of the flesh. God used only the seed of the woman to bring jesus into the world. If you understand this the rest which you have written is self explanatory.
I have marked the key phases in red for you.
john 8:38-45
38 i speak that which i have seen with my father: And ye do that which ye have seen with your father. 39 they answered and said unto him, abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, if ye were abraham's children, ye would do the works of abraham. 40 but now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which i have heard of god: This did not abraham. 41 ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, we be not born of fornication; we have one father, even god. 42 jesus said unto them, if god were your father, ye would love me: For i proceeded forth and came from god; neither came i of myself, but he sent me. 43 why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: f19 for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 and because i tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Look around you there are religious people motivated only by the lust or covets of the flesh, you will know the servants of the flesh by what they say.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Angellous says something about the NT.

And he is right.

Amen.

 

[gnostic]

If you understand the new testament you understand God.

Again, my understanding of "god" I would only understand to a certain degree...as with the NT.

I am even doubtful that various NT authors understand "god" fully. And I don't even think any of the OT prophets could possibly understand all the mysteries behind god or the will of god.

Who can really fully understand "god"?

 

[AK4]

to ak4
Look around you there are religious people motivated only by the lust or covets of the flesh, you will know the servants of the flesh by what they say.

You know thats funny because before i came to the truth, i thought i had really found it in the one of the churches of God. they had "truth" but it was all physical and a little distorted. God put in me a feeling that something wasnt right about them and the scripture "you will know them by their fruits" kept popping in my head til finally i listened and began to question this "truth" they taught plus this "pastor of god". God showed me the light and their "spoiled" fruit and thankfully He gave me the power to follow His command to "Come out of her my people". All these churches and religions in this world are in Babylon, but especially judaism (the mother) and christendom (daughter) who were the ones once trusted with the truth.

BTW this is not my opinion this is actually what the Word of God plainly says. Keep searching for the truth brother.