• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Do you understand the New Testament

free spirit

Well-Known Member
Again, my understanding of "god" I would only understand to a certain degree...as with the NT.

I am even doubtful that various NT authors understand "god" fully. And I don't even think any of the OT prophets could possibly understand all the mysteries behind god or the will of god.

Who can really fully understand "god"?
I have been accused of arrogance because I say that I understand the NT. But we read in Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."
Also we read in Colossians 2:2 to 4 "That their hearts may be encouraged, having bee knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I say this in order that no one may delude you with persuasive argument."
I Have the full assurance of understanding, the following article is a small part of that understanding.

THE WILL OF GOD AND THAT OF THE HIGH PRIEST





We read in Matthew 26 – 42: “He went away again a second time and prayed saying, “My father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, thy will be done”.

As we read the above verse we can be forgiven if we think that God’s will was for Jesus to be executed, and if we think that, then the high priest was only doing God’s will, and if that is so we should also be screaming crucify, crucify him. Therefore it is in the interest and integrity of our holy faith to understand and separate God’s will, from the high priest’s will, because those two wills are intertwined. It is clear however that God could not have achieved his plan of redemption for men without making use of the High priest’s free will. The important thing to understand for the sake of our holy faith is that God used the evil deed of the high Priest, but he (God) had nothing to do with bringing it about, otherwise the high priest would no longer be acting alone or by his own free will.

We all know that the high priest’s will was to have Jesus put to death by execution, for we read in John 11 – 48 – 49 – 50: “If we let him go on like this, all men will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation”. But a certain one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you (us) that one man should die, and that the whole nation should not perish”.

The above verses make the reason and intention of the high priest clear. For he is mainly afraid that his influential position and the Jewish religion will be abolished by the Romans, because they all thought that if Jesus was not stopped, eventually the entire congregation would believe in him and there would be no longer any need for their office and their religion (or nation.) In a nutshell we can confidently say, that the high priest had Jesus put to death so that his influential office and the Jewish religion could continue its existence.

By that knowledge alone we now understand, that Jesus’ execution was soli the will of the high priest and his associates, and God had nothing to do with that decision, nevertheless he did not interfere to save his son or alleviate his sufferings. Therefore, we all should ask ourselves, why he had to pay for our sins with his life? The answer is found in Matthew 5 – 17: For Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to abolish the law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfil.”

We know that all the prophecies that were written about him in the Old Testament were fulfilled as his life unfolded. But how could Jesus fulfil the law? I believe that in order to fulfil the law he had to die sinless. For we read in Hebrews 9 – 27: “And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment.” Yes, it stand to reason, that only after death the judgement can be final, because only then we can no longer sin.

We know that Adam could not keep one simple law, “Genesis 2 – 17” and as a consequence mankind had to die. But Jesus, a type of Adam kept all of the law, despite the temptation within himself to escape death, as well as the temptation to respond, to those that inflicted on him excruciating pain and verbal abuses. Yet, in all that agonising time he did not utter one single complain or accusing word, but blessed them by forgiving them. And because of that he fulfilled the law, (or accomplished God’s will) in consequence he reversed what Adam did, therefore now the entire human race has justification of life.

We should know, that much more than justification of life awaits the believer, who through the spirit of Christ become the adopted sons and daughters of God. For we read in ACTS 2 – 33 and verses 38 – 41: “Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured forth this which you both see and hear.” In verse 38 we read. And Peter said to them, “Repent, and let each of you be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.” And verse 41 reads: “So then, those who had received his word were baptised; and there were added that day about three thousand souls”. So, through the Holy Spirit that was given to us, we know that the fulfilment of the law is the true irreversible outcome of his sacrificial mission, for we also read in 1st Corinthians 2 – 10: “For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.”

The following illustration should clarify God’s will regarding the mission given to Jesus. It will also clearly define Jesus’ sacrificial mission of love. So let us imagine that during wartime there are many missions to be carried out against the enemy and all of them contain some risk of possible loss of some members of those who are taking part in the mission. But other times the mission is so risky that they call for volunteers, the mission is such that the probability of survival are nil, but it has to be done; in this case the commander is sacrificing a small willing number of men for the greater good of the cause.

The question we should ask ourselves is this: Is the commander’s will to have those men killed? Or is the commander’s will that the mission is accomplished? And if your answer is what I think it is, now apply the same formula to God’s will regarding the mission given to Jesus.

John 3 – 16: “For God so loved the world, that he gave (sacrificed) his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.” So God willingly sacrificed his son for the greater good of humanity. Our thanks go to God and to Jesus who successfully carried out the sacrificial mission of fulfilling the law. Hence, believing in his life and in his triumph over the temptation of sinful flesh now saves us. Furthermore we have been fully assured that he has gracefully donated to us his triumph over sin in the flesh through the gift of his Holy Spirit, so that we now can also resist temptation and live holy lives.

Certainly we can now live holy lives it is confirmed in Luke 1 – 73 – 74 – 75, for we read, “The oath, which he swore to Abraham our father, to grant us that we, being delivered from the hand of our enemies (power of sin) might serve him without fear. In holiness and righteousness before him all of our days.”
The above understanding of the scripture is a trustworthy rendering as we read in 1st Corinthians 15 – 56: “The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.”
So we can now confidently say, that Jesus by dying sinless fulfilled the law, consequently stripped sin (our enemy) of its power.

Glory to God
 
Last edited:

free spirit

Well-Known Member
You know thats funny because before i came to the truth, i thought i had really found it in the one of the churches of God. they had "truth" but it was all physical and a little distorted. God put in me a feeling that something wasnt right about them and the scripture "you will know them by their fruits" kept popping in my head til finally i listened and began to question this "truth" they taught plus this "pastor of god". God showed me the light and their "spoiled" fruit and thankfully He gave me the power to follow His command to "Come out of her my people".
We must remember that Is written in Galatians 3: 22 to 27 "but the scriptures has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we wee kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was late to be revealed. therefore the law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ."
So religions that has and teaches Law and rites are kindergarten teachers as it were, we mature Christians cannot insult them, but with patience try to make them see a better way.
All these churches and religions in this world are in Babylon, but especially judaism (the mother) and christendom (daughter) who were the ones once trusted with the truth.
The denominational churches have a mission to accomplish; and that is to prepare the believer to receive the Holy Spirit some are doing better than others.
BTW this is not my opinion this is actually what the Word of God plainly says. Keep searching for the truth brother.
What BTW stand for?


My following note will partly explain to you what I think of the Churches.


Apostles and evangelists should be prepared to offer God’s love to misinformed religious cousins, not only through prayer of intersession, tolerance and respect for their faith, but also by the unashamed proclamation of the truth to them. For it is written in Mathew 25 – 35 – 36, “For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.” Most of today’s believers and religious denominations can only see the superficial meaning of these scripture, because those believers are focused on the obvious physical human needs. But in the book of acts we do not see the apostle Paul going from prison to prison visiting the convicts, or from house to house visiting the sick, or searching for the poor to feed them, or giving shelter to strangers. Do not misunderstand me, for those who do these things are doing a good and compassionate thing, and we Christians should definitively be in the thick of it. Nevertheless in the scriptures we should also see the apostle Paul going from city to city, from synagogue to synagogue; he even managed to visit pagan temples. There he found the hungry, for the bread of life, there he found the thirsty, for the Spirit of God, there he found the naked, ready for the garment of righteousness, there he found the prisoners of false doctrines, to be set free with the truth, there he found the spiritually sick, to be healed with the forgiveness of God, there he also found himself as a stranger, and some godly person took him in. Paul boldly revealed the love of God to them all, he opened up his heart, carelessly endangering himself in the process; he was vilified and ridiculed, he suffered beatings, imprisonments and persecutions. He did all of that for the sake of the Christ and the love for the brethren.

Strange as it may seam, all of the times that a persecution occurred, which was recorded in the scriptures tells us that religious devotees were the persecutors and wished to harm the co-workers of the Lord. They obviously believed in God, but they did not know Him. We read in John 15 – 18, “If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you.” We can rest assured nothing has changed, for even today callous religious devotees love the structure of their religion so much, that they cannot receive the messenger, nor can they receive the living and abiding word of God.
 
Last edited:

AK4

Well-Known Member
freespirit
As we read the above verse we can be forgiven if we think that God’s will was for Jesus to be executed, and if we think that, then the high priest was only doing God’s will,

Yup, he was doing Gods will.

and if that is so we should also be screaming crucify, crucify him.

I don’t know why we would be screaming that now. That already happened. Why scream it again? What does the Word say of crucifying Him again...

to understand and separate God’s will, from the high priest’s will, because those two wills are intertwined.

It was Gods Will to have His Son crucified. It was Jesus’ Will to do the Fathers Will. God wanted His Son to be crucified so He could be the propitiation for our sins. It was God who was ultimately responsible for bringing the circumstances so Jesus could be crucified, so God “allowed” Satan to entice the priest and people to make this happen.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (Php 2:13)

So it was God which worketh in them to both will and to do what He need done to have His Son crucified.

It is clear however that God could not have achieved his plan of redemption for men without making use of the High priest’s free will.

The high priest could have had a free will to do this on his own. For it to be free then there wouldn’t had been ANY, NONE, NADA circumstances to make them want to crucify Him. And we know that that not the case. If the priest truly had free will he could have chosen not to have Jesus crucified and then we wouldn’t have a Saviour---really think about that. What If the high priest decided not to crucify Jesus by his fabled free will? Could he had made Jesus and God a liar? Jesus prophesied right before being crucified that He was going to be killed and lifted up the third day yet you are saying

  • God basically had to ask the priest if he would crucify His Son
  • the priest has a free will that could have thwarted Gods plan if God didn’t influence him in some way
  • mans fabled free will can thwart Gods purpose therefore making him more sovereign than God.
Yet you see God controls everything through circumstances which is a cause, and if there is a cause for someones actions/thoughts it cannot free. If God “made use of the high priest will then that in itself proves that the priest will was not free.


God used the evil deed of the high Priest, but he (God) had nothing to do with bringing it about, otherwise the high priest would no longer be acting alone or by his own free will.

Exactly. He doesn’t have a free will and God has something to do with everything. “ALL is OF God, OUT of God”. God is Sovereign and ultimately responsible for everything, but we are held accountable. It is so hard for people to accept God sovereignty. God brought it about

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: ...yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

I can quote dozens and dozens of more scripture.

For he is mainly afraid that his influential position and the Jewish religion will be abolished by the Romans, because they all thought that if Jesus was not stopped, eventually the entire congregation would believe in him and there would be no longer any need for their office and their religion (or nation.) In a nutshell we can confidently say, that the high priest had Jesus put to death so that his influential office and the Jewish religion could continue its existence.


So you have a cause. Can you see how God brought about the circumstances to have his Son crucified? They didn’t have a totally free reason to kill Jesus, they had their reasons/causes/circumstances which ultimately God is in control of.


By that knowledge alone we now understand, that Jesus’ execution was soli the will of the high priest and his associates, and God had nothing to do with that decision,

Please read the book of Job carefully and understand that He knew ultimately that God is responsible for all and God knows what He is doing. God is not ashamed to let us know that He …..get ready for bomb shell because Christendom doesn’t tell the full truth of God….created evil. God had everything to do with that decision. It was part of His plan. Think for sec…how scripturally/spiritually honest are you? Do you really believe exactly what the scripture says on these things?

nevertheless he did not interfere to save his son or alleviate his sufferings.

Again, it was His purpose. Everything that has happen past and present is all part of His plan and going as He has planned it

Therefore, we all should ask ourselves, why he had to pay for our sins with his life?

The Father didn’t have to do anything. The Father didn’t even have to make a creation including Jesus. The Father didn’t even have to have His Will for Jesus to want to create a creation where He had to die for them. Think about it.

The answer is found in Matthew 5 – 17: For Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to abolish the law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfil.”

No, you should ask why did He pay for our sins and the answer

Joh 4:34 - Jesus saith unto them, Mymeat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

fulfilling the law is only part of plan, He, Jesus, still has to save the world.

The question we should ask ourselves is this: Is the commander’s will to have those men killed? Or is the commander’s will that the mission is accomplished? And if your answer is what I think it is, now apply the same formula to God’s will regarding the mission given to Jesus.

You are not understanding the foreknowledge, wisdom and sovereignty of God. “He counts things as if they are already done”. “Lamb that was slain FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD” To God the mission was accomplished BEFORE the mission even started…think about that……

Also think about this what if the true answer is that it was the commanders will for those men to be killed as part of getting his mission getting accomplished. Ahhh. What does the Word say----“these things (the happenings in the OT) for our admonition” “(the OT) a shadow” etc etc.

The above understanding of the scripture is a trustworthy rendering

Im sorry. Im not being mean or nothing but this is not truly trustworthy because it is based on the doctrine of free will. Even Jesus didn’t have a fabled free will. A will free from the Father.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006


Yup, he was doing Gods will.



I don’t know why we would be screaming that now. That already happened. Why scream it again? What does the Word say of crucifying Him again...



It was Gods Will to have His Son crucified. It was Jesus’ Will to do the Fathers Will. God wanted His Son to be crucified so He could be the propitiation for our sins. It was God who was ultimately responsible for bringing the circumstances so Jesus could be crucified, so God “allowed” Satan to entice the priest and people to make this happen.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (Php 2:13)

So it was God which worketh in them to both will and to do what He need done to have His Son crucified.


The high priest could have had a free will to do this on his own. For it to be free then there wouldn’t had been ANY, NONE, NADA circumstances to make them want to crucify Him. And we know that that not the case. If the priest truly had free will he could have chosen not to have Jesus crucified and then we wouldn’t have a Saviour---really think about that. What If the high priest decided not to crucify Jesus by his fabled free will? Could he had made Jesus and God a liar? Jesus prophesied right before being crucified that He was going to be killed and lifted up the third day yet you are saying
Yet you see God controls everything through circumstances which is a cause, and if there is a cause for someones actions/thoughts it cannot free. If God “made use of the high priest will then that in itself proves that the priest will was not free.




Exactly. He doesn’t have a free will and God has something to do with everything. “ALL is OF God, OUT of God”. God is Sovereign and ultimately responsible for everything, but we are held accountable. It is so hard for people to accept God sovereignty. God brought it about

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: ...yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

I can quote dozens and dozens of more scripture.



So you have a cause. Can you see how God brought about the circumstances to have his Son crucified? They didn’t have a totally free reason to kill Jesus, they had their reasons/causes/circumstances which ultimately God is in control of.



Please read the book of Job carefully and understand that He knew ultimately that God is responsible for all and God knows what He is doing. God is not ashamed to let us know that He …..get ready for bomb shell because Christendom doesn’t tell the full truth of God….created evil. God had everything to do with that decision. It was part of His plan. Think for sec…how scripturally/spiritually honest are you? Do you really believe exactly what the scripture says on these things?


Again, it was His purpose. Everything that has happen past and present is all part of His plan and going as He has planned it

Therefore, we all should ask ourselves, why he had to pay for our sins with his life?

The Father didn’t have to do anything. The Father didn’t even have to make a creation including Jesus. The Father didn’t even have to have His Will for Jesus to want to create a creation where He had to die for them. Think about it.



No, you should ask why did He pay for our sins and the answer

Joh 4:34 - Jesus saith unto them, Mymeat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

fulfilling the law is only part of plan, He, Jesus, still has to save the world.



You are not understanding the foreknowledge, wisdom and sovereignty of God. “He counts things as if they are already done”. “Lamb that was slain FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD” To God the mission was accomplished BEFORE the mission even started…think about that……

Also think about this what if the true answer is that it was the commanders will for those men to be killed as part of getting his mission getting accomplished. Ahhh. What does the Word say----“these things (the happenings in the OT) for our admonition” “(the OT) a shadow” etc etc.


Im sorry. Im not being mean or nothing but this is not truly trustworthy because it is based on the doctrine of free will. Even Jesus didn’t have a fabled free will. A will free from the Father.
Hi, neighbor! Can you say, "convoluted?" I think you can! Let's take the Trolley out of the Land of Make-Believe now... ::zips up cardigan, changes shoes::
 

free spirit

Well-Known Member
freespirit





As we read the above verse we can be forgiven if we think that God’s will was for Jesus to be executed, and if we think that, then the high priest was only doing God’s will,
AK4. Yup, he was doing Gods will.
FS. If he was doing God's will then the high priest will be in heaven with the saints

and if that is so we should also be screaming crucify, crucify him.
AK4. I don’t know why we would be screaming that now. That already happened. Why scream it again? What does the Word say of crucifying Him again...
FS. by screaming I meant we would agree with them

to understand and separate God’s will, from the high priest’s will, because those two wills are intertwined.
AK4. It was Gods Will to have His Son crucified. It was Jesus’ Will to do the Fathers Will. God wanted His Son to be crucified so He could be the propitiation for our sins. It was God who was ultimately responsible for bringing the circumstances so Jesus could be crucified, so God “allowed” Satan to entice the priest and people to make this happen.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. (Php 2:13)
So it was God which worketh in them to both will and to do what He need done to have His Son crucified.
FS. God's will was for Jesus to fulfill the law, (or reverse what Adam did)all the rest was the by product of that.
Your way of thinking makes God to be the sinner, the accuser and the judge.

It is clear however that God could not have achieved his plan of redemption for men without making use of the High priest’s free will.
AK4. The high priest could have had a free will to do this on his own. For it to be free then there wouldn’t had been ANY, NONE, NADA circumstances to make them want to crucify Him. And we know that that not the case. If the priest truly had free will he could have chosen not to have Jesus crucified and then we wouldn’t have a Saviour---really think about that. What If the high priest decided not to crucify Jesus by his fabled free will? Could he had made Jesus and God a liar? Jesus prophesied right before being crucified that He was going to be killed and lifted up the third day yet you are saying

  • God basically had to ask the priest if he would crucify His Son
  • the priest has a free will that could have thwarted Gods plan if God didn’t influence him in some way
  • mans fabled free will can thwart Gods purpose therefore making him more sovereign than God.
Yet you see God controls everything through circumstances which is a cause, and if there is a cause for someones actions/thoughts it cannot free. If God “made use of the high priest will then that in itself proves that the priest will was not free.
FS. God knew what was going to happen, so there was no Chance that the high priest was not going through with his plan to have Jesus crucified, what I am saying is that by knowing what is going to happen does not mean that he had a hand in it.

Continue on post 632
 
Last edited:

free spirit

Well-Known Member
FROM post 631

TO AK4

God used the evil deed of the high Priest, but he (God) had nothing to do with bringing it about, otherwise the high priest would no longer be acting alone or by his own free will.
AK4. Exactly. He doesn’t have a free will and God has something to do with everything. “ALL is OF God, OUT of God”. God is Sovereign and ultimately responsible for everything, but we are held accountable. It is so hard for people to accept God sovereignty. God brought it about
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: ...yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.
I can quote dozens and dozens of more scripture.
FS. No God did not brought it about, God chose the right moment for he knew that at that time his plan will be fulfilled without his interference.

For he is mainly afraid that his influential position and the Jewish religion will be abolished by the Romans, because they all thought that if Jesus was not stopped, eventually the entire congregation would believe in him and there would be no longer any need for their office and their religion (or nation.) In a nutshell we can confidently say, that the high priest had Jesus put to death so that his influential office and the Jewish religion could continue its existence.
AK4. So you have a cause. Can you see how God brought about the circumstances to have his Son crucified? They didn’t have a totally free reason to kill Jesus, they had their reasons/causes/circumstances which ultimately God is in control of.
FS. yes man has to have a selfish cause to act. but God did not put it there

By that knowledge alone we now understand, that Jesus’ execution was soli the will of the high priest and his associates, and God had nothing to do with that decision,
AK4. Please read the book of Job carefully and understand that He knew ultimately that God is responsible for all and God knows what He is doing. God is not ashamed to let us know that He …..get ready for bomb shell because Christendom doesn’t tell the full truth of God….created evil. God had everything to do with that decision. It was part of His plan. Think for sec…how scripturally/spiritually honest are you? Do you really believe exactly what the scripture says on these things?
FS. I think that I am spiritually honest, and I think you are also; but your idea does not make God as honest as we are, so that is the difference between you and me.

nevertheless he did not interfere to save his son or alleviate his sufferings.
AK4. Again, it was His purpose. Everything that has happen past and present is all part of His plan and going as He has planned it
FS. Yes God always choses the time favorable to his plans

Therefore, we all should ask ourselves, why he had to pay for our sins with his life?
AK4. The Father didn’t have to do anything. The Father didn’t even have to make a creation including Jesus. The Father didn’t even have to have His Will for Jesus to want to create a creation where He had to die for them. Think about it.
FS. But having decided to have a family he is responsible to bring it to fruitions.

The answer is found in Matthew 5 – 17: For Jesus said, “Do not think that I came to abolish the law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfil.”
AK4. No, you should ask why did He pay for our sins and the answer
Joh 4:34 - Jesus saith unto them, Mymeat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
fulfilling the law is only part of plan, He, Jesus, still has to save the world.
FS. to fulfill the law is to save the world; for it is the LAW that condemned the world

The question we should ask ourselves is this: Is the commander’s will to have those men killed? Or is the commander’s will that the mission is accomplished? And if your answer is what I think it is, now apply the same formula to God’s will regarding the mission given to Jesus.
AK4. You are not understanding the foreknowledge, wisdom and sovereignty of God. “He counts things as if they are already done”. “Lamb that was slain FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD” To God the mission was accomplished BEFORE the mission even started…think about that……
Also think about this what if the true answer is that it was the commanders will for those men to be killed as part of getting his mission getting accomplished. Ahhh. What does the Word say----“these things (the happenings in the OT) for our admonition” “(the OT) a shadow” etc etc.
FS. Yes The commander's will was that the primary mission is accomplished, and if in doing that life has to be sacrificed so be it. Yes from the foundation of the world he devise a plan to get himself a family because God is not prisoner of time as we are

The above understanding of the scripture is a trustworthy rendering
Im sorry. Im not being mean or nothing but this is not truly trustworthy because it is based on the doctrine of free will. Even Jesus didn’t have a fabled free will. A will free from the Father.[/quote]
We do have a different prospective on the matter I hope in time we will be able to converge.
 
Last edited:

AK4

Well-Known Member
Hi, neighbor! Can you say, "convoluted?" I think you can! Let's take the Trolley out of the Land of Make-Believe now... ::zips up cardigan, changes shoes::


Ahhhh (not that it really bothers me), but instead of making "silly" comments why dont you show me something scriptural for a change. Stop being like Joel Olstien and pick up your bible and quote it. I can show you how "convoluted" the scriptures say of Jesus not having a free will. Not only can You not show me nothing on just this topic, you cant show me nothing.:cool:
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Ahhhh (not that it really bothers me), but instead of making "silly" comments why dont you show me something scriptural for a change. Stop being like Joel Olstien and pick up your bible and quote it. I can show you how "convoluted" the scriptures say of Jesus not having a free will. Not only can You not show me nothing on just this topic, you cant show me nothing.
cool.gif
ou see, boys and girls? You can say, "convoluted." I thought you could, because you are best you that you can be, and you are special.
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
Free spirit

FS. If he was doing God's will then the high priest will be in heaven with the saints


Ahhh yes two false doctrines of the church in that statement, immortal soul and heaven. Tell me, besides Jesus, show me scripturally who is up in heaven now? What is heaven?

And please think on this because this is paramount because when the church teaches this they deny Jesus without even realizing they are doing it----They teach that when you die you go to (lets say) heaven. Do you know that in that saying you deny Jesus? How you say? Glad you asked. By denying the resurrection because this “immortal soul” goes straight to heaven (or hell and for you catholics maybe purgatory).

How do they deny Jesus though? So glad you are asking these questions.

Joh 11:25 -Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

You see it. If you believe there are saints already in heaven, you deny the resurrection and the resurrection is Jesus. If you believe the doctrine of immortal soul you deny Jesus also because what would be the point of Him—you die and go come immediately back to life as soon as you die and go to one of those three places. Youre already alive so theres no need for a resurrection or Jesus.

Can you see it and the deception the church has taught? I could go on and on but I wont. Well just a little more for a second witness

Paul said “who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.” (2Ti 2:18). Question—Would any “Christian” come out and directly deny the resurrection? Of course not. Question 2---Has the slyness of satan reach inside the church by having people basically saying “that the resurrection has already taken place” with the doctrine of immortal soul and going to heaven/hell/purgatory? Yup he sure has. Can you see the cleverness in satan?

Notice also how Paul says it is destroying the faith. It does because now people thumb there nose at the resurrection/Jesus because when they die they think they are going to heaven and the hope of a resurrection isn’t needed therefore there is/was/never will be a need for Jesus.



FS. by screaming I meant we would agree with them


okay

continued next post
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
FS. God's will was for Jesus to fulfill the law, (or reverse what Adam did)all the rest was the by product of that.
Your way of thinking makes God to be the sinner, the accuser and the judge.


Yes God did use Jesus for that too, but let me open your eyes…And I will ask you again how scripturally honest are you? God created "evil" [‘ra’ Isaiah 45:7], and God uses evil all the time for good, but God NEVER, EVER SINS.). God does not create things that do not serve a good purpose. By the way, the word translated into "evil" in Isa. 45:7 is the Hebrew word ra, and it is the very same word translated hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of times as "evil" throughout the Old Testament.

"For OF HIM, and THROUGH HIM, and TO HIM, are ALL THINGS..." (Rom. 11:36).
"I know that, whatsoever God does, it shall be for ever [Heb:’for the eon’]; nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it; and God does it, that men should fear before Him" (Ecc. 3:14).

Am 3:6 - Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
“What a heavy burden God has laid on men!” Ecc 1:13 (NIV) or better translated by the concordant OT---“It is an experience of evil Elohim [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it”
“For ALL his days are SORROWS, and his travail [experience] GRIEF…” (Ecc. 2:23).

For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Ro 8:20

“Out of the mouth of the most High proceeds not evil and good?” (notice this is a rhetorical question) (Lam. 3:38).

“I will raise up evil against you out of your own house…” (II Sam. 12:11).

“…I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction” (Jer. 4:6).

“…Hear, O earth; behold, I will bring evil upon this people…” (Jer. 6:19).

“…Thus says the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you…” (Jer. 18:11).

Heres a good one ---Amos 3:4-6 Will a lion roar in the forest, when he hath no prey? (NO) will a young lion cry out of his den, if he have taken nothing? (NO) Can a bird fall in a snare upon the earth, where no gin is for him? (NO) shall one take up a snare from the earth, and have taken nothing at all? (NO) Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? (NO) shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it? (NO)

Do you believe these scriptures? Theres plenty plenty more. Again how scripturally honest are you? And most important you can learn from Job that Gods doings and uses of evil for the good does not make Him a sinner or wrong doing, for sin by definition is “a missing of the mark” and accusing God of wrong doing just because you may not know or understand His plan makes you the sinner. But anyway back to Job--

“And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the Lord gave, and the Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord. In all this Job sinned NOT, nor charged God foolishly [with wrong]” (Job 1:21-22).

All through the remaining chapters, Job charges GOD with being responsible for his trial, not Satan. In the last chapter God reprimands Job’s three friends by saying:

“…ye have not spoken of Me the thing which is RIGHT, like My servant Job” (Job 42:8).

Job charged God with all the evils that came on him and God said Job spoke the truth and what was right,

It’s a real humbling experience when you know Gods plan and still see all the evils in this world and know it is all done for a purpose, His purpose. And when you know this plan and see all this, you end up giving glory to God for the wisdom behind it all.

1Co 2:10 - But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Romans 8:28 Now we are aware that God is working all together for the good of those who are loving God, who are called according to the purpose

Ro 11:33 -O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

continued again
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
FS. I am saying is that by knowing what is going to happen does not mean that he had a hand in it.


So think about that and read what the Lord said will happen in and then see this verse

"That they may SEE, and KNOW, and CONSIDER, and UNDERSTAND together, that THE HAND OF THE LORD HAS DONE THIS…" (Isa. 41:20).


FS. No God did not brought it about, God chose the right moment for he knew that at that time his plan will be fulfilled without his interference.

God does not react to us or mans supposedly free will. God does not change. He is carrying out His plan and purpose. Heres some more Words of God for you to consider

"To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven" (Ecc. 3:1).

"...for He has appointed a time for every matter, and for every work..." (Ecc. 3:17).

"I know that, whatsoever God does, it shall be for ever [Heb:’for the eon’]; nothing can be put to it, nor anything taken from it; and God does it, that men should fear before Him" (Ecc. 3:14).


Ecc. 9:12—"For a man also knows not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men [mankind] snared [trapped] in an EVIL TIME."

"...And He [God] does according to HIS will in the inhabitants of heaven,and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none and NONE can stay [restrain] His hand, or say unto Him, What are You doing?" (Verse 35).


FS. yes man has to have a selfish cause to act. but God did not put it there

God created us, so who is responsible. He is. That’s why He will correct it with judgement. If a man created a robot and the robot went on a killing spree, who is held responsible? That man. Since God created us with a spiritually weak heart, He (not you or I or anyone else) holds Himself responsible to correct it and that is what He is doing. That is why He provided a Saviour from the foundation of the world because He knew what He was doing.

FS. I think that I am spiritually honest, and I think you are also; but your idea does not make God as honest as we are, so that is the difference between you and me.

I only go by what the God says of Himself throughout the scriptures. If the scriptures say all is out of Him, then ultimately He is responsible. Just as Job friends were trying to say to him that it was Job at fault and Job argued opposite and God confirmed Job was right and his friends were wrong. Now with all those verses I showed you and theres plenty more, ask yourself how spiritually honest are you? God is very honest and tells us exactly whos ultimately behind everything.

FS. Yes God always choses the time favorable to his plans

You are likening God to a man. He doesn’t prophesy something and pick and chose when the times are most favorable to bring it about. God does not gamble.

FS. But having decided to have a family he is responsible to bring it to fruitions.

Right so He came up with a plan where they will become as He is, holy and part of that is knowledge of good and evil. He put the tree there. He put it good and evil in the same tree! He put man there. Who did it? It explicitly says God put all those things there. God has given us an experience of evil so later we will know and appreciate good. To know a virtue you have to know both sides of it. Love/hate, cold/hot, up/down, patience/impatience, life/death etc etc etc

FS. to fulfill the law is to save the world; for it is the LAW that condemned the world


Yes, but if was just the law then adam and eve would not have been “condemned” because the law wasn’t given yet.

FS. Yes The commander's will was that the primary mission is accomplished, and if in doing that life has to be sacrificed so be it.

So do you see where you are contradicting and condemning yourself when you said

  • “
    Your way of thinking makes God to be the sinner, the accuser and the judge
  • .” I am saying is that by knowing what is going to happen does not mean that he had a hand in it.”
    “
    No God did not brought it about, God chose the right moment for he knew that at that time his plan will be fulfilled without his interference.”
  • “yes man has to have a selfish cause to act. but God did not put it there”
  • “I think that I am spiritually honest, and I think you are also; but your idea does not make God as honest as we are”
  • . “Yes The commander's will was that the primary mission is accomplished, and if in doing that life has to be sacrificed so be it.”

So you have to choose. You say God doesn’t bring about/have a hand in it etc etc in one breath and in the other you say it was the commanders will….so be it. That’s not really being honest. I only show you this to get you to think. I am not judging myself because I sense in your spirit that you are wanting truth.

Honestly I used to believe almost exactly as you and had all the half truths and unscriptural doctrines of the church stuck in me tell someone showed me the truth and God opened up my eyes to see it in His Word and hear it through someone He is using to bring others to the truths of God.

We do have a different prospective on the matter I hope in time we will be able to converge.

Converge in the One and only truth yes, Me too.
 

AK4

Well-Known Member
ou see, boys and girls? You can say, "convoluted." I thought you could, because you are best you that you can be, and you are special.

Exactly. I will let the Word speak for me some more

1 Cor 1:27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise;

Pr 12:1 - Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates correction is stupid.
Ps 92:6 - A senseless man has no knowledge, Nor does a stupid man understand this:
Ps 94:8 - Pay heed, you senseless among the people; And when will you understand, stupid ones?
Ahhh but as a pastor/shepard who leads people astray with the doctrines of men/demons this one really fits

Jer 10:21 - For the shepherds have become stupid And have not sought the LORD; Therefore they have not prospered, And all their flock is scattered.
Keep carrying out prophecy!!:cool::yes:
 

Heneni

Miss Independent
:sorry1: I would love to follow this thread and respond, but since i have no idea who has said what other than blue, red and black has spoken im at a loss of words and have no expectation that pink will make me right.



 
Top