Does a belief in a god show lack of education?

[Bird123]

I see another string of unevidenced assumptions, with the odd ad hominem and no true Scotsman fallacy.

You're selling snake oil, and holding an empty, that's what I see clearly. Your spiel might really be more at home delivered from a pulpit or a revival tent, as it is quite clearly preaching, and not debate.

You can choose to believe what makes you feel comfortable or supplies you with the excuse you need, however I think we both know differently. There are other terms in the world than what you demand. I will not feed the beliefs you require.

The sky is blue. The water is two hours walk to the east. Truth is being placed in the world by lots of people. Your problem is I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I simply placed it out there.

I make no demands of any kind. What anyone chooses to do with knowledge is entirely up to them. Burden of proof rests on those who seek the knowledge.

Thirsty in a desert? You can choose not to walk east for two hours simply because I say there is water. You seem to want to place things in my hands, yet I insist you take your own journey.

Is this a debate? You bet it is, only the debate may not be about what you think or want it to be.

Frustrated and confused?? It's no wonder why! I won't give you what you want.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Sheldon]

You can choose to believe what makes you feel comfortable or supplies you with the excuse you need, however I think we both know differently. There are other terms in the world than what you demand. I will not feed the beliefs you require.

The sky is blue. The water is two hours walk to the east. Truth is being placed in the world by lots of people. Your problem is I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I simply placed it out there.

I make no demands of any kind. What anyone chooses to do with knowledge is entirely up to them. Burden of proof rests on those who seek the knowledge.

Thirsty in a desert? You can choose not to walk east for two hours simply because I say there is water. You seem to want to place things in my hands, yet I insist you take your own journey.

Is this a debate? You bet it is, only the debate may not be about what you think or want it to be.

Frustrated and confused?? It's no wonder why! I won't give you what you want.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I can also disbelieve what I want to, and if you think endless vapid platitudes peppered with logical fallacies is debate then good for you, but I'm going to have to politely disagree. I'm often confused, and frustration is part of the human condition, denying it would be far more worrying. The water analogy is deeply flawed, since we know water is possible, but we have no such evidence that any deity is possible.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Well there's no such thing as a "Christian fact", but I think I sense you mean facts that support your belief. Could you list a few for us please, as I'm pretty dubious about the claim.

Why are we goalpost shifting?

1) Gods do not exist

2) 100% of persons' lives are tangibly affected by nonexistent beings

3) People are therefore wholly irrational, ergo, our line of argumentation here is fruitless

 

[Sheldon]

I'd have to ignore all your facts and all of mine (and I have a LOT of Christian FACTS) if we're all highly irrational, which was my point. I could not tell whether I should worship one nonexistent being, millions of them as in Hinduism, or be an atheist.

Trust no one.

To which I responded with:

Well there's no such thing as a "Christian fact", but I think I sense you mean facts that support your belief. Could you list a few for us please, as I'm pretty dubious about the claim.

Now inexplicably just one post later your response makes a ludicrous claim I'm shifting the goalposts, and introduces an unrelated set of straw men from another thread...

Why are we goalpost shifting?

1) Gods do not exist

2) 100% of persons' lives are tangibly affected by nonexistent beings

3) People are therefore wholly irrational, ergo, our line of argumentation here is fruitless

Have a minute and see if you have anything to say about my post, the actual content not those unrelated straw men your peddling from another thread.

 

[Sheldon]

You can choose to believe what makes you feel comfortable or supplies you with the excuse you need, however I think we both know differently. There are other terms in the world than what you demand. I will not feed the beliefs you require.

The sky is blue. The water is two hours walk to the east. Truth is being placed in the world by lots of people. Your problem is I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I simply placed it out there.

I make no demands of any kind. What anyone chooses to do with knowledge is entirely up to them. Burden of proof rests on those who seek the knowledge.

Thirsty in a desert? You can choose not to walk east for two hours simply because I say there is water. You seem to want to place things in my hands, yet I insist you take your own journey.

Is this a debate? You bet it is, only the debate may not be about what you think or want it to be.

Frustrated and confused?? It's no wonder why! I won't give you what you want.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

This isn't remotely a debate, as you're just preaching at me, I don't care for that. It's clear debate is not something you're interested in, so I shall wait until you change that position as vapid preaching is not what a debate forum is for.

 

[Muffled]

Well, I don't believe in either right or wrong in the standard sense.

I believe I know what it means when it says wrong way on a road sign.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I believe I know what it means when it says wrong way on a road sign.

Yeah, but I was referring to other versions of wrong.

 

[Bird123]

I can also disbelieve what I want to, and if you think endless vapid platitudes peppered with logical fallacies is debate then good for you, but I'm going to have to politely disagree. I'm often confused, and frustration is part of the human condition, denying it would be far more worrying. The water analogy is deeply flawed, since we know water is possible, but we have no such evidence that any deity is possible.

Why do you choose to limit yourself from some of the possibilities? Can you really see no evidence of God or at least evidence of higher intelligence??

How much do you choose to limit your view based on beliefs?

Excluding religion, how much in your life do you limit yourself by boxing yourself away from some of the possibilities?

I can hear you now. It can't be done or it's not possible. It surely will not be done if you choose to place limits on yourself.

Your belief that God does not exist has never ever been important. In reality, what will happen is that at some point you will go to God. To your amazement God exists. Further, you will Discover that you already know God. Finally, you are really going to like God.

There is so much everyone is choosing to be blind to see. None of that matters because there is no time limit on Discovering it all.

I am speaking to what actually is. I welcome any comments from anyone. I make no demands. I do not require anyone to believe. In fact, I would rather people didn't value beliefs so very much.

What actually exists is around us all. Nothing is being hidden. On the other hand, so many times each chooses what they want to see. This too doesn't matter. Why? Given enough time. Everything will be Discovered.

Now, if you believe I am preaching to you and do not want to comment, by all means be free to do what you want. Know that no matter how you comment, you will be welcome to comment on anything a say or do. I do not want to limit or control your view or your comments in any way.

Be who you must! It's a part of the plan!

How do I feel about you and all this???

You have all my Love and Kindness!!!

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Sheldon]

Why do you choose to limit yourself from some of the possibilities? Can you really see no evidence of God or at least evidence of higher intelligence??

I don't limit myself to any possibilities, I just don't accept bare unevidenced claims that things are possible. If you have evidence present it and I'll take a look.

Your belief that God does not exist

That's a straw man fallacy, I hold no such belief, nor have I ever expressed any such belief, and I have in fact on many occasions specifically said my atheism is a lack of belief in any deity or deities, but not a contrary belief to theism in general. Since in a generic sense it seems to be an unfalsifiable concept.

 

[BilliardsBall]

To which I responded with:



Now inexplicably just one post later your response makes a ludicrous claim I'm shifting the goalposts, and introduces an unrelated set of straw men from another thread...



Have a minute and see if you have anything to say about my post, the actual content not those unrelated straw men your peddling from another thread.

I have many minutes, and am using many of them to see if you will answer any of my queries short of handwaving and misapplied fallacies. For example, not only do most people believe in at least one god (ad populum) but there is much evidence for a god(s) who exists and exceptional evidence that most people accept mostly rational (evidenced) facts. But I'm hesitant to pour evidence upon you before you handle a simple question as in the other thread, posted just a moment ago.

Thanks.

 

[Bird123]

I don't limit myself to any possibilities, I just don't accept bare unevidenced claims that things are possible. If you have evidence present it and I'll take a look.



That's a straw man fallacy, I hold no such belief, nor have I ever expressed any such belief, and I have in fact on many occasions specifically said my atheism is a lack of belief in any deity or deities, but not a contrary belief to theism in general. Since in a generic sense it seems to be an unfalsifiable concept.

your quote:
I just don't accept bare unevidenced claims that things are possible. If you have evidence present it and I'll take a look.

My Answer: Don't you even see it?? You are wanting those beliefs to be served up just as religion does every day. Your goal is whether to accept or not.

Once again I will say it even though you do not see. The burden of proof rests on the one who seeks the knowledge. If you do not seek, then you are in the beliefs with accepting or rejecting.

Serve it up?? Not going to happen.

All the secrets of the universe stare us all in the face. They do not try to get anyone to Believe or Accept. God doesn't try to get anyone to Believe or Accept. I am not trying to get anyone to Believe or Accept. On the other hand I have pointed to where one who seeks can, with enough time, effort and work, Discover the real truth for themselves. That is the way to acquire something beyond those beliefs.

Still, it's important each chooses what they want to Seek or Discover. That's why I make no demands. I might point but that is all I do. Each decides for themselves their journey. That is God's system. Genius exists behind everything whether one can see or not. On the other hand, this can be Discovered.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[YoursTrue]

Irrational to whom? The disbeliever? Should a believer stand corrected because a non-believer think it is foolish to believe in a God?

And that is a good question!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I've seen it said to people here on numerous occasions that they are not highly educated if they believe in a god.

Really? I've never seen anyone say that.

I've seen it said to some that claim that a god has spoken to them that they are possibility suffering of mental illness.

That, I can understand. At least, if the person claiming it is referring to actually "hearing" a voice.
When drugs aren't involved, hearing voices is more often then not a symptom of mental conditions like psychosis or some other health hazard. Like a brain tumor or something.

Do you think these hold truth's?

The first, no. At best there seems to be a correlation between higher education and atheism. As in, the higher one is educated, the more probable that that person is an atheist. But it's not a guarantee at all. For the statement in your post to "hold true", theism shouldn't be present at all, or at least be an extreme minority, which isn't the case.

The latter statement, yes, under the conditions I clarified.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Of the 10 Highest IQ’S on Earth,, 8 are theist, 6 are Christians. examiner.com

Of 10 highest IQ’s on earth, at least 8 are Theists, at least 6 are Christians: Examiner.com. | Eternal Vigilance

To play devil's advocate for a second.... high IQ is not the same as high educated.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Irrational to whom?

"irrational" according to the definition of "irrational".

The disbeliever? Should a believer stand corrected because a non-believer think it is foolish to believe in a God?

To believe extra-ordinary claims on faith (ie: NOT based on independently verifiable evidence), is by definition irrational. Regardless of what it is that is being believed.

 

[Spirit of Light]

"irrational" according to the definition of "irrational".



To believe extra-ordinary claims on faith (ie: NOT based on independently verifiable evidence), is by definition irrational. Regardless of what it is that is being believed.

It is a spiritual belief, meaning belief in the non physical world. If its irrational so be it.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It depend on what wisdom level the person has reached, the answer look different on each level, so actually all of them are correct depending on what wisdom level you are at, the "higher wisdom level" the more refined the answer becomes.

Ow.

Since you didn't give the means by which we can "measure" the "level of wisdom", and since I assume that there is no such means at all....

I'll just go ahead and declare that I am on the highest wisdom level and therefor I can conclude that I am correct and all of you are wrong.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Ow.

Since you didn't give the means by which we can "measure" the "level of wisdom", and since I assume that there is no such means at all....

I'll just go ahead and declare that I am on the highest wisdom level and therefor I can conclude that I am correct and all of you are wrong.

You can keep comenting the way you do its free to believe the people do

 

[muhammad_isa]

It is a spiritual belief, meaning belief in the non physical world. If its irrational so be it.

It's not irrational.
Some people insisting that it is, does not make it so.

Is it irrational to believe that we can't possibly know everything through our senses and current scientific observations?
Of course not !

At the very least, that presupposes that we know everything there is to know from scientific observation.
..which is in itself, irrational

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What do you mean "Objective evidence"?

Evidence that is independently verifiable and testable.

Can you give a specific example?

Claim: time is relative depending on speed and gravity. The equations that describe this tell us that if you sync 2 clocks and shoot one of them into space to have it orbit the earth a couple times at 40k km/h and have it return, both will note a predictable difference in time. Because relative to the one that remained on earth's surface, the "flow of time" will have been different inside the satelite.

You can independently test this by actually doing that experiment. Sync 2 clocks and hand one of them to an astronaut embarking to the international space station. When he'll be back, you'll be able to see the difference AND be able to calculate what the difference would be ahead of time, using the equations of relativity.


That's objective evidence.
It's independently verifiable and it doesn't rely on anyone's personal beliefs.