Does anyone believe the original scriptures? why or whynot?

[Dena]

do you really believe in yourself and what you think to be true? Even though these documents were written by over 40 authors, who did not know each other because they wrote these docs in seperate life times, its fact (research your history and stop making assumptions)

Uh..that isn't a fact at all.

 

[Draka]

which parts of the bible were translated many times?? do you really know. Who translated it?? how could they have translated it???

Do you honestly think it was all written in modern English? That all languages translate perfectly into one another? Because they don't.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you honestly think it was all written in modern English? That all languages translate perfectly into one another? Because they don't.

On top of that, some of the books (and I'm thinking about the Gospels specifically) were derived from decades of oral tradition before they were put to paper. Was the oral tradition faithful to actual events? I have no reason to assume that it was.

 

[Quagmire]

Do you believe that the writers of the Bible were influenced by the Holy spirit to write what we read today.

Some of them. In the same way that many writers/artists are and always have been inspired by something beyond their understanding , and Holy Spirit is as good a word as any, I suppose.

IMO, to accuse art of being a literal interpretation of reality---in this case, to call mythology history---is a discredit to the art, to the artist, and to whatever this unseen source of inspiration may be.

 

[Dena]

how is it not consistent?

Well...let's see, that whole jesus thing for one. Repeated warnings in the Torah against worshiping anything other then God, repeatedly stating that God isn't a man, making sure humans know that human sacrifice is NOT TO BE DONE, EVER.

Then wow, here comes the NT and suddenly it's okay to worship a dude cause he'd god too. Then, he gets scarified and all is well. It doesn't jive. Actually, none of it jives.

 

[Draka]

For the most part, no.

- most of it isn't written in the style of a historical document.
- it contains many things that are obviously not literally true.
- it's not internally consistent - it contradicts itself.
- it's not a document anyhow; it's many.

I might be willing to accept some of the side mentions of historical details in the Epistles as factual claims, but even then, I wouldn't take them as necessarily true or unbiased, since they appear to have been written by people with particular agendas.

This as well. :yes:

It's not true from the very beginning. Genesis is figurative at best. A man can't live in a fish's belly and no one live's for hundreds of years. So it's certainly not literal. It's mythology. Not meant to be taken literally.

 

[jonathanofarrow]

how can you be so sure that it was translated many times? did your buddys tell you that and you happened to believe it, cause I did at once so its ok. Or is it an assumption that you came up with yourself. I'll be back but please do your research. I am a scientist which forces me to study history (and I 'm good debater so if your not willing to debate please leave) in which brought me to the conclusion I'm going to present to you in a bit, I'm just picking brains for now. I'll be back in a bit to finish, got some work to do... tah tah!!!

 

[Draka]

On top of that, some of the books (and I'm thinking about the Gospels specifically) were derived from decades of oral tradition before they were put to paper. Was the oral tradition faithful to actual events? I have no reason to assume that it was.

Like I said earlier...one big game of telephone. This is exactly what myths are made of. Legends, ideas, morals, stories passed through time. I don't think anyone has said so far that myths have no relevance or importance...but to take them literally does a disservice to the meaning of myth.

 

[Storm]

how can you be so sure that it was translated many times?

Do your own research.

I am a scientist which forces me to study history (and I 'm good debater so if your not willing to debate please leave)

I don't believe you're a scientist, and you obviously overestimate your rhetorical skills.

 

[Madhuri]

I believe that many stories in the Bible are copied and modified from similar ancient stories. Noah's Ark is the most obvious. I also think that the Bible has been so thoroughly manipulated over time by religious authorities that it is difficult to tell what was original and what was not.

So I assume your question is only about believing in the original -Christian- scriptures because if we are talking about older, more original scriptures then I would say that yes I do believe in the Vedic scriptures which are much older although even here, as in every scripture, there are stories which are purely allegorical. That's how the ancients wrote and that is how modern humans still write.

 

[Draka]

how can you be so sure that it was translated many times? did your buddys tell you that and you happened to believe it, cause I did at once so its ok. Or is it an assumption that you came up with yourself. I'll be back but please do your research. I am a scientist which forces me to study history (and I 'm good debater so if your not willing to debate please leave) in which brought me to the conclusion I'm going to present to you in a bit, I'm just picking brains for now. I'll be back in a bit to finish, got some work to do... tah tah!!!

Oh, ok, sure....it hasn't been translated many times. :areyoucra Just ignore the fact that there are literally hundreds of versions of the bible...and that's in English alone. Ignore that there are too many denominations of Christianity to count because none can agree on which bible translation to use and how to interpret said translations. Let's not even consider all the different languages besides English the bible is printed in and wonder how, exactly, certain passages are taken in those languages and cultures. We'll just ignore all that...because you said so.

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

This is a good place to start being that not even the best of scientist and figure anything out I'd rather go back in history, starting with the scriptures that came first (according to historical FACTS!!!). So answer the question, this is specifically for non Christians. If you are Christian praise GOD! but if you are an atheist or something else I would like to know first and for most, do you believe that THE Bible is a factual historical document, WHY or WHY NOT???

No the Bible is not historical fact. Because many of the myths within the Bible are not unique to the Bible but are found in other cultures. They may not be the exact same myth but they have enough similarities that most anyone familiar with some of the myths would recognize them in other cultures.

Joseph Campbell is a good place to start when comparing cultural myths.

 

[jonathanofarrow]

yall are funny, please hold the comments cause you are tempting me to continue. Oh and I'v done the research and if that's the best you got do yours or feel dumb in 2 1/2 hrs.

 

[Draka]

I believe that many stories in the Bible are copied and modified from similar ancient stories. Noah's Ark is the most obvious. I also think that the Bible has been so thoroughly manipulated over time by religious authorities that it is difficult to tell what was original and what was not.

So I assume your question is only about believing in the original -Christian- scriptures because if we are talking about older, more original scriptures then I would say that yes I do believe in the Vedic scriptures which are much older although even here, as in every scripture, there are stories which are purely allegorical. That's how the ancients wrote and that is how modern humans still write.

Thank you for this post as I had a brainfart earlier and couldn't think of the word "allegory". Ever do that? You know you're thinking of a particular word, a word you've used many times before, and you just completely draw a blank? I hate that.

 

[Madhuri]

Thank you for this post as I had a brainfart earlier and couldn't think of the word "allegory". Ever do that? You know you're thinking of a particular word, a word you've used many times before, and you just completely draw a blank? I hate that.

Several times daily

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe that many stories in the Bible are copied and modified from similar ancient stories. Noah's Ark is the most obvious. I also think that the Bible has been so thoroughly manipulated over time by religious authorities that it is difficult to tell what was original and what was not.

So I assume your question is only about believing in the original -Christian- scriptures because if we are talking about older, more original scriptures then I would say that yes I do believe in the Vedic scriptures which are much older although even here, as in every scripture, there are stories which are purely allegorical. That's how the ancients wrote and that is how modern humans still write.

Coincidentally, I remember when I read the Bhagavad Gita - there were parts when I stopped and thought to myself that it sounded almost exactly like the Book of Romans in the Bible. The main difference was that in Romans, Christ performs the yoga for you - other than that, it seemed (to me, at least) remarkably similar.

Of course, I know that the Bhagavad Gita is older by many centuries.

 

[Draka]

yall are funny, please hold the comments cause you are tempting me to continue. Oh and I'v done the research and if that's the best you got do yours or feel dumb in 2 1/2 hrs.

ooh ooh...anyone else looking forward to being made to feel dumb? I know I can hardly wait.

 

[Dena]

I am a scientist which forces me to study history (and I 'm good debater so if your not willing to debate please leave)

:no:

But...you may be a comedian.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

ooh ooh...anyone else looking forward to being made to feel dumb? I know I can hardly wait.

Actually, I'm feeling a bit dumb already for letting myself get suckered into another thread like this.

 

[Dena]

ooh ooh...anyone else looking forward to being made to feel dumb? I know I can hardly wait.

Oh goody. :drool: