Does Atheism Lead to Nihilism?

[Rival]

There is a common question: Where do atheists get their morals from? I think it deserves more attention than it receives, but this is not ny main question.

Whenever I take an atheistic turn of mind it is automatically nihilistic. This is because I believe in objectivity and the answers I receive from most atheists rely on relativity and subjective meaning, which doesn't work for me because this, in essence, still means the meaning is made-up, which still imo leads to nihilism.

Thus my question:
So does, or can, atheism lead logically to nihilism?

I'm defining atheism as lack of belief in God or Gods, this is all.

 

[Terese]

I was an atheist for 6 years, and Nihilism always (and still) confounded me. Why say there is no meaning to the universe, when you can create meaning? Just because one is put on this earth for no purpose, doesn't mean he has to reject purpose.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Whenever I take an atheistic turn of mind it is automatically nihilistic.

I don't see why. People find meaning for their lives in all kinds of things, religious belief is only one of the options.

 

[Rival]

I was an atheist for 6 years, and Nihilism always (and still) confounded me. Why say there is no meaning to the universe, when you can create meaning? Just because one is put on this earth for no purpose, doesn't mean he has to reject purpose.

Created meaning is subjective. I'm seeking objectivity.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Created meaning is subjective. I'm seeking objectivity.

Religious belief is created meaning too.

 

[Rival]

Religious belief is created meaning too.

It is, which is why I am still basically a nihilist.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It is, which is why I am still basically a nihilist.

"Nihilist" basically means thinking life has no meaning. Perhaps you are reading too much into the word?

 

[Rival]

"Nihilist" basically means thinking life has no meaning. Perhaps you are reading too much into the word?

I know what it means.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Thus ny question:
So does, or can, atheism lead logically to nihilism?

I'm defining atheism as lack of belief in God or Gods, this is all.

No.

In fact I would argue that religion does a worse job of being objectively moral, and I would urge you to abandon your moral stance based in Relgion.

If a group of believers of any set of religious claims were put together Ina room, do you really believe all of them would have the same interpretations of religious texts, the exact same moral responses to a given moral quandary?

Take homosexuality, for example. . . There are quite a few anti-gay religious people out there who suddenly have a change of heart when someone they love turns out to be gay.

Where's the objective morality? Sounds pretty situational to me.

 

[Willamena]

Created meaning is subjective. I'm seeking objectivity.

All meaning is created meaning. Apart from us, the world has no inherent meaning.

Atheism does not lead to nihilism because no atheist has defined "god" in terms of a metapicture.

 

[LuisDantas]

There is a common question: Where do atheists get their morals from? I think it deserves more attention than it receives, but this is not my main question.

In any case, it is an interesting question. I figure you learned my answer for it in other threads.

Whenever I take an atheistic turn of mind it is automatically nihilistic. This is because I believe in objectivity and the answers I receive from most atheists rely on relativity and subjective meaning, which doesn't work for me because this, in essence, still means the meaning is made-up, which still imo leads to nihilism.

Far as I can tell, humans are hardly ever interested in pure logic to any degree that may actually disturb us.

Nihilism is IMO no more likely to develop from atheism than it is to come from disappointment with anything that is particularly emotionally significant for us.

If anything, the variety of theism that lends the existence of God a lot of significance invites nihilism if it is threatened in any way. Atheism has no such vulnerability, at least in and of itself.

Thus ny question:
So does, or can, atheism lead logically to nihilism?

No, not really. It is more fit as a deterrent against nihilism, really.

But it can certainly appear otherwise for someone who has learned to associate theism with hope and purpose to too great a degree.

Nihilism, come to think of it, is more akin to certainty than to uncertainty. Hope and purpose are forms of uncertainty. But far too many of us are taught way too fiercely to be afraid, even phobic of uncertainty.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thus ny question:
So does, or can, atheism lead logically to nihilism?

I'm defining atheism as lack of belief in God or Gods, this is all.

Since I can't see how the existence of a god would necessarily impart meaning into anything, I fail to see how atheism would have any impact on whether a person is nihilistic or not.

If atheists have no source of meaning for their lives, why would theists?

 

[Sunstone]

Created meaning is subjective. I'm seeking objectivity.

You'll seek in vain, then. Even if there were some deity, and even if that deity in some way created an "objective meaning" to our lives, you yourself would never be able to know for certain whether that objective meaning existed or what it was. That's because all knowledge is ultimately subjective. Even inter-subjectively verifiable knowledge is ultimately subjective. And there is no escape from that. At best, you could have faith that there existed an objective meaning to your life and that you knew what that meaning was. But you could never be certain of it.

 

[Laika]

There is a common question: Where do atheists get their morals from? I think it deserves more attention than it receives, but this is not ny main question.

Whenever I take an atheistic turn of mind it is automatically nihilistic. This is because I believe in objectivity and the answers I receive from most atheists rely on relativity and subjective meaning, which doesn't work for me because this, in essence, still means the meaning is made-up, which still imo leads to nihilism.

Thus ny question:
So does, or can, atheism lead logically to nihilism?

I'm defining atheism as lack of belief in God or Gods, this is all.

Yes. Atheism leads to nihilism But only when atheism is a conscious rejection of the existence of god and consequently leads to a crisis of morality derived from said diety.

As for "where do atheists get their morals from?" I'll let you know when I find out what my morals are.

P.s. you are about to be assulted by the "but atheism is only lack of belief" zombies. They will throw the dictationary at you and define atheism in such a way as to tell you that your thoughts and feelings are impossible and dont exist. Any reason or evidence to the contary is a "logical fallacy", etc and they will use ridicule as a weapon because they havent anything better to do. Just a word of advice that its Best to not engage them as their views never change or evolve. its both really predictable and very weird.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes. Atheism leads to nihilism But only when atheism is a conscious rejection of the existence of god and consequently leads to a crisis of morality derived from said diety.

So you think morality can be derived from a deity?

How would that work, exactly?

 

[Sunstone]

So does, or can, atheism lead logically to nihilism?

Atheism does not logically entail nihilism. The only way one might argue that atheism entailed nihilism is if one first demonstrated that it was logically impossible for atheists to assert meaning and/or hold values. And that proposition would seem to rest on the naive belief that only that meaning and those values which are objectively established by deity can be valid. Since that is plainly not the case, however, atheism does not logically entail nihilism.

 

[Sunstone]

Yes. Atheism leads to nihilism...

Please show us your reasoning.

 

[bobhikes]

There is a common question: Where do atheists get their morals from? I think it deserves more attention than it receives, but this is not ny main question.

Whenever I take an atheistic turn of mind it is automatically nihilistic. This is because I believe in objectivity and the answers I receive from most atheists rely on relativity and subjective meaning, which doesn't work for me because this, in essence, still means the meaning is made-up, which still imo leads to nihilism.

Thus my question:
So does, or can, atheism lead logically to nihilism?

I'm defining atheism as lack of belief in God or Gods, this is all.

It can but it doesn't have to. All one needs to understand is that you need other humans to survive and the the golden rule is still the best practice. You will probably find especially on the RF that most Atheists view life this way. They can be very combative with established religions but still incredibly humane. because of the belief that humans are more important than a God or Afterlife.

 

[Laika]

Please show us your reasoning.

My past experiences for this discussing anything relating to atheism are some of the worst I actually have for RF. I was only replying to this because I know Rival well enough.

As you're my freind I hope the link below should be sufficient to clarify my reasoning and provide links and source material for further research if you want to. Everyone of the thinkers mentioned in the OP of that thread would broadly accept my position to one extent or another. It was a previous attempt to try and show my reasoning.

http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...eligious-strong-atheism-atheists-only.190060/

If you want a direct answer, the wikipedia article on Fredeich Nietzsche's book "Beyond Good and Evil" should be enough.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_Good_and_Evil

Otherwise, I'll agree to differ.

So you think morality can be derived from a deity?

How would that work, exactly?

No. Lets not even go there. Lets skip 20 pages and you can do what you said you would do last time and:

PUT ME ON IGNORE.

Occassionally I like some of your stuff but I can't see how trying to discuss this or anything else with you will benifit either of us given the previous dozen or so times we've debated atheism in the past. Nothing about this thread suggests the result will be any different.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No. Lets not even go there. Lets skip 20 pages and you can do what you said you would do last time and:

PUT ME ON IGNORE.

Occassionally I like some of your stuff but I can't see how trying to discuss this or anything else with you will benifit either of us given the previous dozen or so times we've debated atheism in the past. Nothing about this thread suggests the result will be any different.

I see benefit in calling attention to the fact that your position requires that a God can somehow be the source of morality. If you choose not to justify this premise, people will see that and give your conclusions that depend on this premise the weight they deserve.

If you trying to defend this premise will just amount to you flailing around for pages and pages with actually giving a justification like you have on other issues, then I agree: there probably isn't much point in you going down that rabbit hole.