Does Atheism Lead to Nihilism?

[Rival]

I agree. Kant went to the trouble to be relentlessly logical about morality and derived the Categorical Imperatives, rule-based morality rooted in reason and not "God said." Others have developed relentlessly logical virtue-based and outcome-based systems that are not based in any religious precepts. But yes, few people bother to learn about these rational systems of morality, or try to live by them, because they are somewhat difficult.

Yet, discussion of atheism and morality (at least in discussions I see here) always seems to fall back to the assertion that without God, there can be no meaning or morals, and hence nihilism and either no morals at all, or purely ego-centric or relativisitic morals.

I guess it's easier to say that God Gives Us the Rules...or there are no rules at all because there is no God...

Kantian Ethics in itself would make for a good thread, as would Virtue Ethics. Kant had a very logical system.

 

[LuisDantas]

Because if meaning is not objective it is not meaningful, in my opinion. For something to be meaningful for me it must be objective. That's just the way I am.

Maybe there would be an use for some training at desensitization from the unease that subjective parameters bring you?

At any rate, being at peace with what one can't help seems sensible to me.

 

[Rival]

Maybe there would be an use for some training at desensitization from the unease that subjective parameters bring you?

At any rate, being at peace with what one can't help seems sensible to me.

It doesn't make me uneasy, I'm just challenging the idea that subjective meaning is meaning. I strongly disagree. I believe meaning must be intrinsic.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It doesn't make me uneasy, I'm just challenging the idea that subjective meaning is meaning. I strongly disagree. I believe meaning must be intrinsic.

Intrinsic to what?

 

[Rival]

Intrinsic to what?

...itself? The meaning of life must be inherent to life itself, independent of human thought.

 

[LuisDantas]

It doesn't make me uneasy, I'm just challenging the idea that subjective meaning is meaning. I strongly disagree. I believe meaning must be intrinsic.

Intrinsic to what?

What do you see as the necessary elements of meaning?

It seems to me that those would include some form of conscious entity to perceive and pursue options, and an environment where those options will manifest themselves.

Do you disagree, or see any other elements?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I believe meaning must be intrinsic.

WHY must it be intrinsic? On what basis do you impose such a standard, when it is clear that others are quite accepting of applied/created meaning?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

...itself? The meaning of life must be inherent to life itself, independent of human thought.

Has it occurred to you that the intrinsic meaning of life may not be comprehensible to humans?

Or, that it really is something as simple and vague as "live your life so that your genes will tend to be reproduced in future generations?" Or, "live your life so that your species will tend to survive and evolve through future generations?"

 

[Rival]

WHY must it be intrinsic? On what basis do you impose such a standard, when it is clear that others are quite accepting of applied/created meaning?

Or else the supposed meaning is meaningless and therefore just an illusion and we might as well just say life has no meaning.

 

[Rival]

Or, that it really is something as simple and vague as "live your life so that your genes will tend to be reproduced in future generations?"

This has always been the meaning I assumed, yes.

 

[Rival]

Has it occurred to you that the intrinsic meaning of life may not be comprehensible to humans?

Yes and I like the idea

 

[Nietzsche]

Atheism doesn't lead to nihilism. Nihilism is the assumption that there is no inherent purpose to life. I believe in Gods and remain, effectively, a nihilist.

So no. Atheism doesn't lead to nihilism. Atheism doesn't tell you life has no meaning, that there is no purpose to our suffering. Experience does.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Or else the supposed meaning is meaningless and therefore just an illusion and we might as well just say life has no meaning.

This has always been the meaning I assumed, yes.

Yes and I like the idea

Okay, so--because we are not omniscient beings--we still have to assume these...that is, these are subjective alternatives...

 

[Rival]

Okay, so--because we are not omniscient beings--we still have to assume these...that is, these are subjective alternatives...

Yes but I'm not saying that meaning is inherent.

 

[viole]

There is a common question: Where do atheists get their morals from? I think it deserves more attention than it receives, but this is not ny main question.

Whenever I take an atheistic turn of mind it is automatically nihilistic. This is because I believe in objectivity and the answers I receive from most atheists rely on relativity and subjective meaning, which doesn't work for me because this, in essence, still means the meaning is made-up, which still imo leads to nihilism.

Thus my question:
So does, or can, atheism lead logically to nihilism?

I'm defining atheism as lack of belief in God or Gods, this is all.

When I get a rose from my husband, I am happy. Very happy and full of meaning and purpose. He loves me and I love him, and everything is OK.

However, I am also aware of the biological reasons that led the machine in my skull to produce hormons that translate into loving that flower. I am also aware that next week that flower will land in the trash bin.

Am I a nihilist?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Rival]

When I get a rose from my husband, I am happy. Very happy and full of meaning and purpose.

But I am also aware of the biological reasons that lead the machine in my skull to produce endorphins that translate into loving that flower. I am also aware that next week that flower will land in the trash bin.

Am I a nihilist?

Ciao

- viole

Not really in the mod for your games. If you believe life has no inherent meaning then I'd say you are a nihilist.

 

[viole]

Not really in the mod for your games. If you believe life has no inherent meaning then I'd say you are a nihilist.

It depends. If the word "inherent" is necessary, then I am a nihilist. If not, ergo if having meaning (without qualifiers) is sufficient, then I am not. You make the unsubstantiate assumption that inherent meaning is somehow more important than the meaning we set for ourselves.

But if you ask me, I believe Christians, or anyone who believes that meaning is guaranteed only by eternal life, or satisfying the purpose and rules set by someone else (e.g. a God), are the real nihilists. Closet nihilists.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Rival]

It depends. If the word "inherent" is necessary, then I am a nihilist. If not, ergo if having meaning (without qualifiers) is sufficient, then I am not.

But if you ask me, I believe Christians, or anyone who believes that meaning is guaranteed only by eternal life, or satisfying the purpose and rules set by someone else (e.g. a God), are the real nihilists. Closet nihilists.

Ciao

- viole

I am an open nihilist, but can't speak for other believers.

Yes, the word 'Inherent' is crucial.

 

[viole]

I am an open nihilist, but can't speak for other believers.

Yes, the word 'Inherent' is crucial.

Well, so let it be. I am a nihilist. And an "Übermensch", at least according to Fred, since I do not feel any incovenience out of it. Or any difference, in satisfaction/happiness when compared to the "(Unter)menschen", always looking for inherent meanings to the point of making them up . Including my past self, of course.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Sunstone]

If nihilism is being defined as rejecting any inherent meaning to life, then I (and perhaps innumerable other people) am a nihilist even though I am satisfied my life has all the meaning I wish it to have. Interesting take on "nihilism". Quite academic.