questfortruth
Well-Known Member
What are rights? There is only God's given rights.
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Does Bible interpret itself?
- Thread starter questfortruth
- Start date
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Baseless assertion. You have yet to give the slightest hint of a credible reason to believe that any god even exists,
questfortruth
Well-Known Member
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
You're saying god is nothing but a human emotion. Rather silly and pointless redefinition of the word 'god'.
Yes, an interpretation into English by the most objective experts available. That's why I use the Annotated Revised Standard Version.
The existence of the bible, and the existence of my favored interpretation of the bible into English, are ordinary facts. I'm not sure there's any other category of fact than 'ordinary fact'.
You've totally failed, or omitted, to quote any verse of the bible in which Jesus says "I am God", and I've set out for you many verses from the NT in which each of the Jesuses of Paul, of Mark, of Matthew, of Luke and of John, says, "I am not God".
To make sure we understand each other, it would make no difference to me in the slightest if the Jesuses of the NT all said "I am God", except that I'd be posting, "All the Jesuses of the NT say they're God". But as I've pointed out to you, they don't.
I've got five bucks to your favorite charity says they can.
Then quote Jesus saying "I am God".
Or else admit that the quotes I gave you earlier >here< ─ where all five major versions of Jesus deny they're God ─ show your claim is wrong.
Don't misunderstand me ─ believe that Jesus is God all you want. Just don't pretend the NT agrees with you.
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questfortruth
Well-Known Member
Do not put words in my mouth and do not fantasize over my proof.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
You said "God is love", love is a human emotion.
What proof of what?
You said "Does Love exist?", the answer is yes (as a human emotion), you then said "God is love". So what you've 'proved' is that god is nothing but a human emotion.
questfortruth
Well-Known Member
It is much more than its symptoms. Love causes symptoms, the latter are emotions. Therefore, a good person is invaluable.
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Do you mean
there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1 Timothy 2:5
is heresy?
questfortruth
Well-Known Member
Bible does not interpret itself. Bible is fact. Any fact needs correct interpretation.
For example, the fossils of dinosaurs do not mean, that they are million years old.
STRAWMAN....LYING FOR JESUS:
It is common for debate losers to claim that their opponents said something, then they could easily defeat it. That is called a "strawman" argument. If their opponent never said it, of course they could defeat it. "Strawman arguments" are another way of lying. If one resorts to lies in order to win, that is cheating. But, is it okay to lie for Jesus?
QuestForTruth said: "atheists have no God-given right to interpret "There is God" verses of the Bible as "there is no god"." Atheists don't believe in God nor the bible, nor any verse within the bible. Therefore atheists don't tell lies about bible verses and tell people that they believe them.
One is supposed to start with facts, and those facts must be true, and must be verifiable. Then one is supposed to use logic to reach conclusions. But, if one starts with a lie, the entire debate process cannot reliably reach a true conclusion.
QuestForTruth said: "the bible said that Jesus is God." Catholics believe that the trinity is God, and that all three parts of the trininty are God. The trinity is the Father (God), the son (Jesus), and the holy spirit (Christ). In many places Jesus was quoted by apostles as claiming to be the same as God. But, was Jesus right? Were the apostles who claimed to hear Jesus right about what Jesus said? The apostles were not Gods, they were human beings, and humans are not perfect.
There are parts of the bible that make it clear that Jesus nor Christ are/were God. For example, on the cross Jesus asked God "why hath thou foresaken me?" Clearly it was not Jesus's idea to die for our sins. Rather, it appears that Jesus had no powers to stop his own crucifixion. Also, if Jesus was talking to God, and Jesus is God, was Jesus talking to himself? Is it possible to kill God? With a blink of God's eye, or a wave of God's hand, or a mere thought from God, surely an all-powerful God could defeat a few Roman soldiers. Even God was quoted "I am God and there will be no other." No other means that Jesus and Christ are not Gods. The bible makes it very clear that Jesus was the son of God, but even that might not be right. If the bible is flawed and contradicts itself, it cannot be trusted.
Clara: Lets say that I present you with a magic rock. I can prove that it is a rock. Does that prove that it is magic? You have taken my statement out of context. Let me put it back into context. You said that there is plenty of proof that (a human named) Jesus existed, and then you asserted that Jesus was all that the bible says (son of God, etc). My point was that proving that there was a human named Jesus who once lived, does not prove all that the bible said about him (such as a healer, and son of God, etc). Further proof is necessary.
QuestForTruth said "If I have no reason to distrust you, I must trust you." It is better to let people earn trust before we trust them. The Brooklyn bridge has been sold many times (and not by the owners).
Greek Orthodox Church - Wikipedia
Wikipedia's website on the Greek Orthodox church (hypertext link above) says: "Historically, the term "Greek Orthodox" has been used to describe all Eastern Orthodox churches"
QuestForTruth said: "Catholics say, that Holy Spirit comes from Jesus. Eastern Orthodox Christianity says, that it is not true."
I spoke to the associate pastor of my local Greek Orthdox Church about the trinity, and he said that the Father (God), the son (Jesus), and the holy spirit (Christ) are all God, and that God had split himself into three parts.
While it is possible that some Eastern Orthodox churches might believe that the Holy Spirit and Jesus are not the same, other Eastern Orthodox churches do. Please see the website on the Greek Orthodox church, above. It seems strange, to me, that you are saying that Catholics say that the "Holy Spirit comes from Jesus" rather than saying that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same and God is also the same.
QuestForTruth said: "All good, which comes from God are the names of God. Love is good, logic is good. Hence, God is Logic Himself."
But if logic is flawed, and God is logic, then God is flawed.
Attachments
Dinos are vain....lie about age.
Over the centuries, a lot of people have been tortured and jailed over the issues of religion. Freedom? I don't think so.
Finding one answer leads to three questions. The more I learn, the more I realize that I only know the tip of the iceberg, and there is a vast amount of knowledge that I don't know. Even Socrates admitted that he was an idiot.
2. Believer.....3. Independent thinker.....Contradiction?
If we believe as others do, we follow their bible. If we were the first to believe these things, and others followed, we might be independent.
Lets say that we believe that there is one particular tree in a forest. No one else believes that it exists (though other trees exist). We would believe, but we would be the only one who does. Thus, we would be an independent believer.
True.
Panthera (Jesus's father) - Wikipedia
"In the 2nd century, Celsus, a Greek philosopher, wrote that Jesus's father was a Roman soldier named Panthera."
......
"The story that Jesus was the son of a man named Pantera is referred to in the Talmud, in which Jesus is widely understood to be the figure referred to as "Ben Stada":"
Jesus in the Talmud - Wikipedia
The link above is about possible references in the Talmud about Jesus. Some believe it, others don't.
Thanks for those links. I've seen Panteras grave stone, and believe that he was possibly Jesus father. It makes far more sense to me than god magic
Audie
Veteran Member
All that is fine but automatic assumption
of an insult, and what it means when
a person so assume is the topic.
You might as well have posted instructions for a vacuum cleaner
Sheldon
Veteran Member
Circular reasoning fallacy.
Another piece of obvious circular reasoning.
Nonsense, it is a collection of archaic unevidenced myths and stories. Some of which are demonstrably false.
Atheism is not a claim no deity exists, it is the lack of belief in any deity or deities.
They can't blaspheme at all, unless you fail to comprehend what atheism means. It can only appear to be blaspheme to a theist.
Harry Potter books claim Harry potter is a wizard, so what?
Vapid deepity.
Nonsense, that's a false dichotomy fallacy.
Two more unevidenced assertions, in your endless and ongoing list of unevidenced assertions.
I don't think you understand the law of non-contradiction.
Logic is a method of reasoning created by humans, that adheres to strict principles of validation. It is an abstract concept that is efficacious in avoiding flawed reasoning.
What on earth are you talking about?