Does Christmas have anything to do with Christ?

[Storm]

I got a good chuckle out of that one, too.

History of Santa Claus

 

[`mud]

hey Storm,
I got socks older than that !
'57......damned snipe....no up rearing.
thanx for the like, Monkey Wards !!!!
~
'mud

 

[MikeSavage]

hey Mikey,
Montgomery Ward's invented Santa Claus ???
I guess when you were born in '57,
that Wards was the answer for everything.
I think that the Germans were about 500 years before that,
maybe even earlier !
My God, Monkey Wards.......real funny !
~
'mud

No. You're thinking of Sinterklaas.

 

[Storm]

Santa Claus is Sinter Klaas as adapted by Americans.

 

[`mud]

But that was a good try !!
~
'mud

 

[MikeSavage]

Santa Claus is Sinter Klaas as adapted by Americans.

As adapted by Aaron Montgomery Ward. And, a staff member for Ward created the poem "Rudolph the Rednose Reindeer", and Gene Autry sang it and made it popular. Sinterklaas is an embodiment of Odin, a pagan god.

 

[`mud]

And that one also !!
~
'mud

 

[`mud]

My socks are still older !
~
'mud

 

[MikeSavage]

My socks are still older !
~
'mud

I wondered what that funny smell was.

 

[JM2C]

I did not present a point.
I am asking what your point is.
Now if you did not have a point, all you needs do is say so.

What do you do on Christmas season?

 

[MikeSavage]

What do you do on Christmas season?

The same thing I do every other time of year. Live, work, pray, enjoy, preach the coming Kingdom, teach, etc.

 

[JM2C]

The same thing I do every other time of year. Live, work, pray, enjoy, preach the coming Kingdom, teach, etc.

You are boring me man. Don't tell me you don't go out more on Christmas season, you know shopping, looking for bargains, and dining, more than any other months of the year. I know JW don't do this kind of stuff, or they pretend they don't do this things.

 

[MikeSavage]

You are boring me man. Don't tell me you don't go out more on Christmas season, you know shopping, looking for bargains, and dining, more than any other months of the year. I know JW don't do this kind of stuff, or they pretend they don't do this things.

Why would I do what the "world" does any more in that season than any other time of year? God and His son Jesus said that we are to be "no part of the world", referring to all who believe in them, and I take that very seriously. We are not to partake in the desires of the world, unless we want to share in her plagues and punishments. So no, it's just another day.

 

[jeager106]

Santa Clause not a pagan symbole? Really?
"The modern figure of Santa Claus is derived from the Dutch figure of Sinterklaas, whose name is a dialectal pronunciation of Saint Nicholas, the historical Greek bishop and gift-giver of Myra. During the Christianization of Germanic Europe, this figure may have absorbed elements of the god Odin, who was associated with the Germanic pagan midwinter event of Yule and led the Wild Hunt, a ghostly procession through the sky. Over time, traits of this character and the British folklore character Father Christmas merged to form the modern Santa Claus known today."

"The god Odin's role during the Yuletide period has been theorized as having influenced concepts of St. Nicholas in a variety of facets, including his long white beard and his gray horse for nightly rides (see Odin's horse Sleipnir), which was traded for reindeer in North America.[18] Margaret Baker comments that "The appearance of Santa Claus or Father Christmas, whose day is 25th of December, owes much to Odin, the old blue-hooded, cloaked, white-bearded Giftbringer of the north, who rode the midwinter sky on his eight-footed steed Sleipnir, visiting his people with gifts. … Odin, transformed into Father Christmas, then Santa Claus, prospered with St Nicholas and the Christchild became a leading player on the Christmas stage."[19]

From Wikipedia, link. Santa Claus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It would seem things aren't what they appear. Even St. Nick has been combined with paga cultures & symbols. There is more to back up wiki but you can dig it up as I did.
There is nothing in the Christian Bible that supports any sort of celebration of St. Nick's day of Dec. 25/26. Christ-mass has nothing to the with Christ.
Personally I do not engage in decorating my home wiht lights or other symbols.
I DO buy gifts for family as a tradition w/o religious roots.
Unfortunately Christ, his mission and meaning are lost to history and have been replaced by tradition with it's roots in paganism.
Just like Easter, Haloween, etc.
I see nothing wrong with being concerned enough about my understanding of God, Jesus and spirituality to dig out truths. As they say on the X Files, "the truth is out there" and " a lie is best served hidden between two truths".

Dec. 25th is St. Nicks day, Jews never celebrated b-days, Jesus was a Jew, nothing in our Bible supports celebrating b-days, Christmass is heavily laced with pagan symbols, Jesus would not be impressed with our traditionial celebration of His birth. Maybe He'd be quite offended with all this tradition based on pagan gos & symbols?
What do you think? Try and take the emotion out of this and look at the facts.

 

[`mud]

hey Jeager,
Storm just posted a link to that stuff earlier, History of Santa Claus ,
but you're right, Jesus and Santa do get all mixed together,
reindeer, sleighs, mistle-toe and crap, all together, makes no sense.
I think non believers have the advantage, they aren't as much involved.
Involved in the religious aspects I mean, now about the family and friends part,
and the gifts of remembrance, I think that's better in most ways.
Whether the season is Pagan or not doesn't really matter,
it's a good time to see people and share their company and 'spirit'.
Now the 'spirit' is pretty important here also, lot's of 'spirits' !
And with that....good 'spirits' to you if I miss your writings.
It was a good read, and the seasons best to you and yours.
~
'mud

 

[ChristineES]

As Montgomery Ward, as he invented Santa Claus in the heyday of his department stores, as a way to get mothers to bring their children into the store. Saint means holy, and no man can tell heaven or God Almighty to make someone holy post mortem.

"St. Nick" in the poem,Who the modern Santa Claus is based on, was written about in 1808 in "Twas The Night Before Christmas". I think you're thinking how someone changed the elf like character into a "fat" Santa Claus for Montgomery Ward.

 

[MikeSavage]

Santa Clause not a pagan symbole? Really?
"The modern figure of Santa Claus is derived from the Dutch figure of Sinterklaas, whose name is a dialectal pronunciation of Saint Nicholas, the historical Greek bishop and gift-giver of Myra. During the Christianization of Germanic Europe, this figure may have absorbed elements of the god Odin, who was associated with the Germanic pagan midwinter event of Yule and led the Wild Hunt, a ghostly procession through the sky. Over time, traits of this character and the British folklore character Father Christmas merged to form the modern Santa Claus known today."

"The god Odin's role during the Yuletide period has been theorized as having influenced concepts of St. Nicholas in a variety of facets, including his long white beard and his gray horse for nightly rides (see Odin's horse Sleipnir), which was traded for reindeer in North America.[18] Margaret Baker comments that "The appearance of Santa Claus or Father Christmas, whose day is 25th of December, owes much to Odin, the old blue-hooded, cloaked, white-bearded Giftbringer of the north, who rode the midwinter sky on his eight-footed steed Sleipnir, visiting his people with gifts. … Odin, transformed into Father Christmas, then Santa Claus, prospered with St Nicholas and the Christchild became a leading player on the Christmas stage."[19]

From Wikipedia, link. Santa Claus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It would seem things aren't what they appear. Even St. Nick has been combined with paga cultures & symbols. There is more to back up wiki but you can dig it up as I did.
There is nothing in the Christian Bible that supports any sort of celebration of St. Nick's day of Dec. 25/26. Christ-mass has nothing to the with Christ.
Personally I do not engage in decorating my home wiht lights or other symbols.
I DO buy gifts for family as a tradition w/o religious roots.
Unfortunately Christ, his mission and meaning are lost to history and have been replaced by tradition with it's roots in paganism.
Just like Easter, Haloween, etc.
I see nothing wrong with being concerned enough about my understanding of God, Jesus and spirituality to dig out truths. As they say on the X Files, "the truth is out there" and " a lie is best served hidden between two truths".

Dec. 25th is St. Nicks day, Jews never celebrated b-days, Jesus was a Jew, nothing in our Bible supports celebrating b-days, Christmass is heavily laced with pagan symbols, Jesus would not be impressed with our traditionial celebration of His birth. Maybe He'd be quite offended with all this tradition based on pagan gos & symbols?
What do you think? Try and take the emotion out of this and look at the facts.

That's all very true. Jesus said that his birth was meaningless, but his death has tremendous meaning. His death gives us the CHANCE at forgiveness for sins. We must do many things to achieve that forgiveness. In the scriptures, two birthday celebrations are mentioned, and they both resulted in someone's death. The first of which was John the babtizer at Herod's birthday celebration. Birthdays in general were only celebrated by pagans. God said to glorify no one or nothing but Him, and a birthday celebration does glorify the celebrant. Revelation to John says false religion (all religions claiming to be Christian) and all pagan religions are Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion, and they will all be destroyed in the final battle. God also said to "not touch the unclean thing", and He said anything pagan is unclean. Christmas is entirely pagan. Put two and two together. False religion celebrates Christmas. Most religions are at least half pagan. Most translations of the scriptures are half pagan. Satan caused all of that, as he is "deceiving the entire inhabited Earth". After the final battle, 7.5 billion will be killed for being pagan, not doing God's will, or being part of false religion or the governments of man. I don't celebrate Christmas either.

 

[sincerly]

Now hold on there. I am a believer in the birth of Jesus. I do not celebrate his birth, but I memorialize his death as he commanded us to do, the night before he died. He said his birth was of no significance, but his death was. His sacrifice affected billions, his birth, none. His birth wasn't a sacrifice. His death was. Christmas doesn't exist in the scriptures. The Christ's death does. Christendom celebrates his birth. True Christianity memorializes his death. True Christianity is not religion, Christendom is. Big differences.

As Jesus said to Nicodemus(John 3:16-17), "
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.""

Mike, Yes, Jesus is/was the sinner's propitiation---so are we all.
Jesus had to be born before HE could be "sacrificed/die on the cross'' and then be "resurrected". Had any of the three failed no-one could have the promised propitiation. One's faith would be in vain.

Let's be thankful that all three parts of HIS life remained TRUE.
The Gospels and epistles of the NT are a fulfillment of the OT Prophecies.Do you discount HIS resurrection as you do Jesus' birth-- not important.?

 

[MikeSavage]

As Jesus said to Nicodemus(John 3:16-17), "
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.""

Mike, Yes, Jesus is/was the sinner's propitiation---so are we all.
Jesus had to be born before HE could be "sacrificed/die on the cross'' and then be "resurrected". Had any of the three failed no-one could have the promised propitiation. One's faith would be in vain.

Let's be thankful that all three parts of HIS life remained TRUE.
The Gospels and epistles of the NT are a fulfillment of the OT Prophecies.Do you discount HIS resurrection as you do Jesus' birth-- not important.?

Why would I discount his resurrection? It is his death and resurrection, and his subsequent paying of our ransom to his Father that gives us the OPPORTUNITY for forgiveness of our sins, and therefore, future righteousness. His death alone does not give us everlasting life or forgiveness. His sacrifice is equal to what Adam lost when God condemned him to death for sinning and being the very first religious proselyte under Eve, at Satan's hand. Satan introduced religion to the world in the garden in Eden, and it's been Satan's greatest tool in misleading mankind ever since. Satan's second most effective tool has been mistranslated Bibles. Third on the list is peer pressure.

I don't "discount" Jesus' birth, but as he said about it, it's insignificant. His death, as he told the first of the 144,000, the very first members of the Christian congregation (the apostles and some of the disciples of Jesus) is to be memorialized annually on the anniversary of his murder. It is that murder that gives us hope of living forever in a paradise Earth. It's a shame that religions all teach all lies, and don't tell these things. They don't teach God's word, they teach man's word.

 

[sincerly]

I'm no expert on our Christian Bible, only a person trying to learn and understand the truth found in Scripture. No easy task given our Bible has been translated from ancient languages, mistranslated a lot also. We try our best.
It's my understanding Jesus was first and foremost a Jew. In Christs time Jews didn't celebrate b-days but tracked a persons age by approx. date of conception.
B-days were irrelevant to the Jews. Christmas is clearly an attempt by the early Holy Roman Church to combine pagan images with Christian images to gain coverts.
If we simply read an encyclopedia we can clearly see that Santa, the yule log, evergreen tree, virtually every symbol of modern Christmasses we know is pagan in origin. Jews didn't mark b-days, symbols of Christmas are pagan in origin.
So would celebrating today's Christmas be something that Jesus would approve of? Even recongnize? Would God be offended at the pagan symbols that consitute Christmas? These things true Christians must examine closely with good conscience and dertermine if celebrating Dec. 25th as Christs birth has any value or significance or has Christs birth been bastardized into something pagan to serve a very clever Satan????????

Jeager, Welcome to the fray. The OP states, "Does Xmas have anything to do with Christ?"

There was no "mass" celebrated by Christians(Xtians) of pagan deities.
However, the day chosen to celebrate the Birth of Jesus Christ does have the fact that Jesus Christ was born and given a date. A "MASS" was instituted for its yearly celebration.
Many trapping have been added and HIS birth has been sharply curtailed in recent years---by disbelievers of HIM and GOD the Father.

Without Christ, the Day would be as the Godless desire---Xmas/Day of lust/winter solstice.
Satan has counterfeited many things of significance to Christian Believers.