Does Christmas have anything to do with Christ?

[Storm]

As adapted by Aaron Montgomery Ward.

No. He may have played a role, but this is simply foolish.

And, a staff member for Ward created the poem "Rudolph the Rednose Reindeer", and Gene Autry sang it and made it popular.

Nobody said Rudolph wasn't an American addition, so that isn't even relevant.

Sinterklaas is an embodiment of Odin, a pagan god

False, he's another adaptation of Saint Nicholas. Wiki

You might want to note that you're speaking to a pagan. That ain't ours.

 

[Simplelogic]

Jeager, Welcome to the fray. The OP states, "Does Xmas have anything to do with Christ?"

There was no "mass" celebrated by Christians(Xtians) of pagan deities.
However, the day chosen to celebrate the Birth of Jesus Christ does have the fact that Jesus Christ was born and given a date. A "MASS" was instituted for its yearly celebration.
Many trapping have been added and HIS birth has been sharply curtailed in recent years---by disbelievers of HIM and GOD the Father.

Without Christ, the Day would be as the Godless desire---Xmas/Day of lust/winter solstice.
Satan has counterfeited many things of significance to Christian Believers.

Accept the worship of sun god's on Dec 20-25th is recorded in almost every ancient civilization. Mithra was worshipped in Persia, Horace in Egypt, Tammuz in ancient Bablyon, Yule in the Scandinavia. Are you saying that these cultures were not already doing this?

People were even setting up fir trees in houses and adorning them with gold and silver balls!!

The Bible actually speaks about this:

1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel; 2thus saith the LORD:
Learn not the way of the nations,
And be not dismayed at the signs of heaven;
For the nations are dismayed at them.
3For the customs of the peoples are vanity;
For it is but a tree which one cutteth out of the forest,
The work of the hands of the workman with the axe.
4They deck it with silver and with gold,
They fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5They are like a pillar in a garden of cucumbers, and speak not;
They must needs be borne, because they cannot go.
Be not afraid of them, for they cannot do evil,
Neither is it in them to do good. Jer 10:1-5

 

[MikeSavage]

No. He may have played a role, but this is simply foolish.


Nobody said Rudolph wasn't an American addition, so that isn't even relevant.


False, he's another adaptation of Saint Nicholas. Wiki

You might want to note that you're speaking to a pagan. That ain't ours.

The origins of the yule are Odin, a pagan god. Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia: The modern figure of Santa Claus is derived from the Dutch figure of Sinterklaas, whose name is a dialectal pronunciation of Saint Nicholas, the historical Greek bishop and gift-giver of Myra. During the Christianization of Germanic Europe, this figure may have absorbed elements of the god Odin, who was associated with the Germanic pagan midwinter event of Yule and led the Wild Hunt, a ghostly procession through the sky. Over time, traits of this character and the British folklore character Father Christmas merged to form the modern Santa Claus known today.

 

[Cephus]

Jeager, Welcome to the fray. The OP states, "Does Xmas have anything to do with Christ?"

There was no "mass" celebrated by Christians(Xtians) of pagan deities.
However, the day chosen to celebrate the Birth of Jesus Christ does have the fact that Jesus Christ was born and given a date. A "MASS" was instituted for its yearly celebration.
Many trapping have been added and HIS birth has been sharply curtailed in recent years---by disbelievers of HIM and GOD the Father.

Without Christ, the Day would be as the Godless desire---Xmas/Day of lust/winter solstice.
Satan has counterfeited many things of significance to Christian Believers.

You people are really into convenient reading, aren't you? You are aware that words change meanings over time, right? Halloween has nothing to do with All Hallow's Eve, the religious celebration that it once was. It's about dressing up, having fun and getting candy. Easter, which no surprise you don't even mention, was derived from Ēastre, the name of a goddess associated with spring. Today, it is not only not a pagan celebration, it is not a Christian celebration, it's all about bunnies and chocolate and colored eggs.

But no, continue down your religiously-deluded rabbit hole.

 

[MikeSavage]

You people are really into convenient reading, aren't you? You are aware that words change meanings over time, right? Halloween has nothing to do with All Hallow's Eve, the religious celebration that it once was. It's about dressing up, having fun and getting candy. Easter, which no surprise you don't even mention, was derived from Ēastre, the name of a goddess associated with spring. Today, it is not only not a pagan celebration, it is not a Christian celebration, it's all about bunnies and chocolate and colored eggs.

But no, continue down your religiously-deluded rabbit hole.

Sorry Cephus;
I ascribe to NO religion. So, there is no possibility that I am going down any religiously-deluded rabbit hole. I ascribe only to the scriptures, or rather, an ACCURATE translation of them. I cannot speak for others. The scriptures say ALL religion is false and will be destroyed.

 

[savagewind]

YOU say the governing body does not make anything up. Why not ask them how do they know angels no longer come to Earth in human like bodies as they came to Abraham?

I am sure they won't answer you because the Bible doesn't say that. If you want to know why they teach it regardless of what The Bible teaches about it I will tell you when I get back from my trip. OK?

The scriptures DO indicate that.

OK? Do you have a scripture?

 

[Cephus]

Sorry Cephus;
I ascribe to NO religion. So, there is no possibility that I am going down any religiously-deluded rabbit hole. I ascribe only to the scriptures, or rather, an ACCURATE translation of them. I cannot speak for others. The scriptures say ALL religion is false and will be destroyed.

Whether you choose to label yourself that way or not, if you believe in a god, you are religious. You may not belong to any mainstream religious organization, you're still religious.

 

[MikeSavage]

OK? Do you have a scripture?

No single scripture directly says that. And, I won't play that game. The closest I would come, in any case, even if there were a single sentence that directly said that, would be to tell you what book and chapter to look in. I will not do your work for you.

 

[MikeSavage]

Whether you choose to label yourself that way or not, if you believe in a god, you are religious. You may not belong to any mainstream religious organization, you're still religious.

That is absolutely completely incorrect. Believing in God is not religion. It is faith. In it's essence, religion is the teaching/.belief of things about God, that are different from what He teaches about Himself.

 

[Cephus]

That is absolutely completely incorrect. Believing in God is not religion. It is faith. In it's essence, religion is the teaching/.belief of things about God, that are different from what He teaches about Himself.

You can't even prove God exists, there's no evidence that God teaches anything. Come on, you're being ridiculous.

 

[MikeSavage]

You can't even prove God exists, there's no evidence that God teaches anything. Come on, you're being ridiculous.

That is most certainly not the truth. I am NOT being rediculous. There is proof that God the Almighty does exist, and there is a huge preponderance of evidence that God teaches us many things. To you, however, it may not appear that way, as most believe as you do.

 

[Cephus]

That is most certainly not the truth. I am NOT being rediculous. There is proof that God the Almighty does exist, and there is a huge preponderance of evidence that God teaches us many things. To you, however, it may not appear that way, as most believe as you do.

But you can't actually produce any of that supposed "proof", you can simply point to things and make the unsupported assertion that it is proof. Why is it proof of God? Why not proof of magical unicorns? Why not Zeus? It's something you won't address because you can't address it. You can only claim that it's true.

 

[MikeSavage]

But you can't actually produce any of that supposed "proof", you can simply point to things and make the unsupported assertion that it is proof. Why is it proof of God? Why not proof of magical unicorns? Why not Zeus? It's something you won't address because you can't address it. You can only claim that it's true.

Once again, incorrect.

 

[savagewind]

No single scripture directly says that. And, I won't play that game. The closest I would come, in any case, even if there were a single sentence that directly said that, would be to tell you what book and chapter to look in. I will not do your work for you.

I understand there is no single sentence that says "angels will stop visiting the Earth" . You need not offer a scripture. Just tell us what "indicates" they no longer come here. Do you why they don't?

 

[Storm]

The origins of the yule are Odin, a pagan god.

No, they aren't. Yule was one of MANY holy days honoring the return of the Dying God and the sun. Odin was not the Dying God of the Aesir, Baldur was. Odin was the All-Father, who created this world from the corpse of a slain giant.

I'm not sure which culture the word Yule comes from, but the symbols borrowed by Christianity weren't even wholly Norse. They were appropriated from all over Northwestern Europe. Holly, for instance, with its blood red berries, had particular significance in the Celtic Isles.

Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia: The modern figure of Santa Claus is derived from the Dutch figure of Sinterklaas, whose name is a dialectal pronunciation of Saint Nicholas, the historical Greek bishop and gift-giver of Myra. During the Christianization of Germanic Europe, this figure may have absorbed elements of the god Odin, who was associated with the Germanic pagan midwinter event of Yule and led the Wild Hunt, a ghostly procession through the sky. Over time, traits of this character and the British folklore character Father Christmas merged to form the modern Santa Claus known today.

Uh huh. "May have absorbed elements of" isn't even close to "is the embodiment of," which was your patently false claim. By the way, the elements in question? The most important and credible is the long white beard.

I did warn you.

 

[savagewind]

I hear you say "do the work!" "Do the work!" But YOU did not do the work. The lots of people who write the Watchtower are they who did the work for you.

 

[Storm]

Sorry Cephus;
I ascribe to NO religion. So, there is no possibility that I am going down any religiously-deluded rabbit hole. I ascribe only to the scriptures, or rather, an ACCURATE translation of them. I cannot speak for others. The scriptures say ALL religion is false and will be destroyed.

It's appalling how ashamed Christians are to admit to what they are. Way to represent.

 

[MikeSavage]

I understand there is no single sentence that says "angels will stop visiting the Earth" . You need not offer a scripture. Just tell us what "indicates" they no longer come here. Do you why they don't?

Yes I do. Look in Genesis.

 

[savagewind]

Yes I do. Look in Genesis.

I am looking. So far I have found one which seems to say they still DO visit us.

Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Hebrews 13:2

But during the night an angel of the Lord opened the prison doors and brought them out Acts 5:19

For this very night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship Acts 27:23

Then the woman came and told her husband, “A man of God came to me, and his appearance was like the appearance of the angel of God, very awesome. I did not ask him where he was from, and he did not tell me his nameJudges 13:6

The angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the way to Shur. Genesis 16:7

I am not asking about rebel angels. I am talking about messenger angles like them who visited Abraham.

 

[MikeSavage]

I am looking. So far I have found one which seems to say they still DO visit us.

Do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers, for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Hebrews 13:2

But during the night an angel of the Lord opened the prison doors and brought them out Acts 5:19

For this very night there stood before me an angel of the God to whom I belong and whom I worship Acts 27:23

Then the woman came and told her husband, “A man of God came to me, and his appearance was like the appearance of the angel of God, very awesome. I did not ask him where he was from, and he did not tell me his nameJudges 13:6

The angel of the Lord found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the way to Shur. Genesis 16:7

I am not asking about rebel angels. I am talking about messenger angles like them who visited Abraham.

The apostle Peter identifies these spirits as those who had “once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days.” (1 Pet. 3:20) Clearly, Peter was referring to spirit creatures who chose to join Satan’s rebellion. Jude mentions the angels who “did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place,” saying that God “has reserved [them] with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.”—Jude 6.
In what way were spirit creatures disobedient in Noah’s day? Before the Deluge, these wicked spirits materialized in human form—something that God had not purposed for them. (Gen. 6:2, 4) Furthermore, those angels who had sex with women were practicing a perversion. God did not create spirit creatures to engage in sexual relations with women. (Gen. 5:2) These wicked, disobedient angels will be destroyed in God’s due time. For now, as Jude notes, they are in a condition of “dense darkness”—a spiritual prison, so to speak.