Does Christmas have anything to do with Christ?

[jeager106]

We must remember to understand that we are reading the Christian Bible when attempting to evaluate words found in Scripture. If words, phrases, sentences, contain words familiar to us NOW we need to understand what words might have meant THEN and try to understand the meaning.
Yoke as in unevenly yoked together does not mean work. It merely can mean work.
Interprete the word, phrase, as it seems to have been meant in Scripture. Here:

"The phrase “unequally yoked” comes from2 Corinthians 6:14in the King James Version: “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?” The New American Standard Version is a little more forthright: “Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?”

Read more:What does it mean to be unequally yoked?

I copied this deliberately so no one can think I made it up or changed the words around to suit some personal crusade. I have no crusade, belong to no particular denomination. I have attended many Christian denominational churches, made many friends, attended Bible studies, even joined a non-denominational church & got baptized. I have found serious errors in interpretations with most all churches I've attended.
To each their own. It isn't an easy task to dig up probable facts that fly in the face of convention and tradition. I don't follow tradition if flies in the face of Scripture.
I have great respect for todays theologians that are still interpreting ancient Scripture from ancient languages into modern english. It's very difficult to convey accuratly the meaning of those ancient scribes, prophets, sages.
If one takes ones spiritual welfare seriously then one should stirve for the truth.
Does anyone really believe that "chruches" seeking power and wealth would not change meanings of words to suit the agenda of the almighty church?
Does no one ask why only priests could read/write in centuries past and the Bible written only in Latin? Even if a peasant of antiquity could learn a little native language it would be unlikely that person would ever understand Latin.
Hell was created by the church to....well, scare the hell out of the illiterate.
Hell is in fact a myth and totally pagan. Don't take my word for it, do the research.
It isn't hard. Christmass with all it's symbols are pagan and un-Christain.
Many Christians can't or won't accept that. I believe that it matters to God.

 

[MikeSavage]

Mike, "saints" are people in the Hebrew and Greek who as GOD said, "Be holy"- they were called HIS people. The epistles were written to "the saints at".
Not "postmortem" . However, Our "santa claus" is certainly not real.---nor is he worshiped by believers in GOD.
Jesus Christ was/is real and had a birthday(specific day---not known)--assigned the day of December 25.

As Paul wrote---idols/false gods/are not to be worshiped. However, when one touches such knowing that they are nothing/not worthy of the worship given to GOD. That is no different in principle than "eating and drinking with publicans and sinners"
Being in the world, one can not help but "touch" the "unclean"---but one doesn't have to "worship" the secular world. One is "in the world", but one does not have to be "of the world". That's what Jesus prayed in John 17.

When alive, they were holy. Not after death. And no religion or clergy can make them holy post mortem. The term "saint" in most religions falsely claiming to be Christian means that they were cannonized post mortem. All false.

 

[savagewind]

I have not got proof the Bible makes perfectly clear Jehovah stopped sending angels to earth. If it is true when did it stop? And how do you know? I know why you think you know.

 

[savagewind]

We must remember to understand that we are reading the Christian Bible when attempting to evaluate words found in Scripture. If words, phrases, sentences, contain words familiar to us NOW we need to understand what words might have meant THEN and try to understand the meaning.
Yoke as in unevenly yoked together does not mean work. It merely can mean work.
Interprete the word, phrase, as it seems to have been meant in Scripture. Here:

"The phrase “unequally yoked” comes from2 Corinthians 6:14in the King James Version: “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?” The New American Standard Version is a little more forthright: “Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?”

Read more:What does it mean to be unequally yoked?

I copied this deliberately so no one can think I made it up or changed the words around to suit some personal crusade. I have no crusade, belong to no particular denomination. I have attended many Christian denominational churches, made many friends, attended Bible studies, even joined a non-denominational church & got baptized. I have found serious errors in interpretations with most all churches I've attended.
To each their own. It isn't an easy task to dig up probable facts that fly in the face of convention and tradition. I don't follow tradition if flies in the face of Scripture.
I have great respect for todays theologians that are still interpreting ancient Scripture from ancient languages into modern english. It's very difficult to convey accuratly the meaning of those ancient scribes, prophets, sages.
If one takes ones spiritual welfare seriously then one should stirve for the truth.
Does anyone really believe that "chruches" seeking power and wealth would not change meanings of words to suit the agenda of the almighty church?
Does no one ask why only priests could read/write in centuries past and the Bible written only in Latin? Even if a peasant of antiquity could learn a little native language it would be unlikely that person would ever understand Latin.
Hell was created by the church to....well, scare the hell out of the illiterate.
Hell is in fact a myth and totally pagan. Don't take my word for it, do the research.
It isn't hard. Christmass with all it's symbols are pagan and un-Christain.
Many Christians can't or won't accept that. I believe that it matters to God.

A yoke is a wooden bar that joins two oxen to each other and to the burden they pull.

Read more:What does it mean to be unequally yoked?

When people gather to eat a meal together what burden are they pulling?

 

[MikeSavage]

I have not got proof the Bible makes perfectly clear Jehovah stopped sending angels to earth. If it is true when did it stop? And how do you know? I know why you think you know.

I suggest that you study the topic in the scriptures. Many things are spelled out clearly, many others are based on God's principles. It is necessary to know what those principles are. Only careful study can show one that. It takes about a year for my students to get their own traction and to make changes in their lives that conform to God's principles. Some latch on quickly, but most don't. Thereafter they begin researching things they are curious about. It takes a lifetime. I've been at it over 40 years and learn new things every day. I see new proof every day that I never imagined existed. It's not something that I can give one a scripture of and bang, they have their proof. It rarely works that way.

 

[Cephus]

When people gather to eat a meal together what burden are they pulling?

Someone has to do dishes?

 

[sincerly]

sincerly said: ↑
Where is that verse that is interpolated to mean that the birth of Jesus is "insignificant"??

According to Luke 3 v 15 Jesus' birth was significant because those 1st-century people were in ' expectation' of Messiah's coming. Since the Jews did Not celebrate birthdays it was Not expectation of birth, but rather when the one born would become Messiah which took place at Jesus' baptism - Luke 3 vs 21,22

U-ME, Look at Luke 2:8-18, "
And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.....
And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.
And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.".
That "Expectation" had been since Gen.3:15, "
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel".
That "seed" was/is the promised Messiah who would be/is a savior to those who believe and put an end to the Adversary and the results of the rebellion against GOD'S righteous Kingdom. That end is upon us.

Jesus was/is the promised Messiah no matter the age.
Now look at Matt.2:9-14,
"When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.['/u]
When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:"

They followed the star "to where he was" not had been. No contradiction, but an obvious attempt to "forge a lie" against GOD Being in charge of the situation.

What are your thoughts about Ecclesiastes 7 v 1 B where it states the day of death is better than the day of one's birth ?

At death, one knows what type of life one has lived/chosen/pursued and how it it measures up to the standards of GOD. Also, ones knows the adversities and pleasures one has gone through.
The newborn has an uncharted travel plan through out its life. What path to take and was it the correct one?
Vanity of vanity all is vanity without the guidance and doing of the WILL of the Creator GOD.

 

[jeager106]

When people gather to eat a meal together what burden are they pulling?

Why are you still thinking "yoked together" means pulling something?
I just posted what the Scripture means. It hasn't anything to do with working or pulling.
It's a METAPHORE. Lots of those in Scripture. It takes many people a long time and serious study to understand how the Bible makes meaning.
Saying a person has a "lead foot" has nothing to do with metal.
Jesus spoke a great deal using metaphore in his teaching.
"Don't stare at the stars, it might rain in your face." has nothing to do with weather.
Metaphor. Millions of them.
Can you explain "spare the rod & spoil the child"?

 

[savagewind]

Why are you still thinking "yoked together" means pulling something?
I just posted what the Scripture means. It hasn't anything to do with working or pulling.
It's a METAPHORE. Lots of those in Scripture. It takes many people a long time and serious study to understand how the Bible makes meaning.
Saying a person has a "lead foot" has nothing to do with metal.
Jesus spoke a great deal using metaphore in his teaching.
"Don't stare at the stars, it might rain in your face." has nothing to do with weather.
Metaphor. Millions of them.
Can you explain "spare the rod & spoil the child"?

Yes. A metaphor of work. Why use a word meaning work if it doesn't mean to work? What you posted about what the scripture means is written by a person like you. Do you believe commentary originates with God?

 

[`mud]

I got up this morning and read here about angels, sexual coupling with human women(rape),
yoking together in unknown fashion, and other rediculas thinking of non-reality.
Everyone here is an adult....REALLY !!
There were giant angels that became devils of sorts,
there were angels that breeded with human women that bore children,
what species were these unusual fondlings, and of the little tiny angels,
thousands of them parading around on the points of needles or pins,
take your choice, pins or needles, more insanity ! And with wings !
And argueing about whether yoking is needed to couple people for comradery, and not work.
No-one here believes in Santa Clause, or elves making toys at the north pole,
but they believe in reindeer pulling sleds, not in the air though, even in Norway.
This thread has escaped reality in so many ways, that it's astounding.
It would be silly to go on, so I won't, I'll just continue decorating my tree.
Anyone want a cup of cider, maybe a splash of rum, and some cinnamon ?
I really wish that the humanity that I share this Earth with, would frigging grow up.
Ahhhhhh...hell....nuff stuff
~
'mud

 

[savagewind]

But if we weren't like children we would not get our jolly good laughs.

 

[DrTCH]

Considering the current "ideal" of Christmas now days, no

It is a blatant rip-off of Saturnalia

With respect...not
The Left Hand "of" God?

 

[JM2C]

Why would I do what the "world" does any more in that season than any other time of year? God and His son Jesus said that we are to be "no part of the world", referring to all who believe in them, and I take that very seriously. We are not to partake in the desires of the world, unless we want to share in her plagues and punishments. So no, it's just another day.

But you use those things that belongs to this world. Do you drink beer, smoke a cigar, play golf, use i-phone, or do you use facebook, or even this forum? These are parts of the world my friend.

 

[DrTCH]

This is a very interesting question...and one which may reveal more than is initially apparent. First consider that Jesus (also known as Jeshua, Joshua, Yeshua, etc.) is not the same as Christ. The Greek word we translate as Christ, actually means "annointed."...and many religious figures have merited that title in biblical history. Now does the Christian religion have anything to do with Christmas? Well, yes. As Christianity is a "made-up" religion, which borrowed--wholesale--all kinds of pagan elements (and probably some original JC content (unclear just how much..and a LOT has come from that rascal Paul, not from Jesus..and, incidentally, departed considerably from the Jerusalem church doctrine headed--as I recall--by JC's brother James...which I consider very problematic)...including the myth of Jesus' birth on December 25, of course it does.

Of course, picking this date was good marketing strategy, as many folks of various traditions celebrated some holiday around the winter solstice, including--yes..Saturnalia. In effect, the Church co-opted these other holidays. Shades of "Mad-Men!!"

You might like to also recall that the Church (which, under Constantine, became the official religion of the Roman Empire...still more problematic!) burned many important libraries, destroyed pagan statues and other images, and persecuted those not electing to join the Church...which I consider solidly criminal acts. And, not only did they co-opt religious holidays of their rivals...but images ...e.g., of Mother Mary and child (Madonna & Child)..and of the ""Good Shepard"...were pretty much direct borrowings (again!) of pagan images. By Jove!!!

 

[JM2C]

Why would I do what the "world" does any more in that season than any other time of year? God and His son Jesus said that we are to be "no part of the world", referring to all who believe in them, and I take that very seriously. We are not to partake in the desires of the world, unless we want to share in her plagues and punishments. So no, it's just another day.

But you use those things that belongs to this world. Do you drink beer, smoke a cigar, play golf, use i-phone, or do you use facebook, or even this forum? These are parts of the world my friend.

Can you tell me the meaning of this verse?
Mt 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”

 

[jeager106]

But you use those things that belongs to this world. Do you drink beer, smoke a cigar, play golf, use i-phone, or do you use facebook, or even this forum? These are parts of the world my friend.

The Bible was talking about the "world" in spiritual terms. Spiritual matters are activites that relect ones attitude & understanding about the meaning of activites that involve guidelines refelcted in our Bible. What you eat, the way you dress, where you work, the way you earn your living my not violate spiritual guidelines for living a Christian life.
Don't compare apples to oranges.

 

[MikeSavage]

But you use those things that belongs to this world. Do you drink beer, smoke a cigar, play golf, use i-phone, or do you use facebook, or even this forum? These are parts of the world my friend.

All have to use the things of the world, but we don't have to be "part" of the world. We don't have to obsess about money, non-scriptural sex, violence, addictions, politics, etc. etc. etc. We are admonished in the scriptures to live as "alien residents" in the world, but to be no part of it. The desires of the world are desires that exist because of Satan's influence, not God's. Almost all of the world live for their own purposes. All, or almost all, true Christians do not. We live each minute of each day as the scriptures teach us to live. We do what the scriptures tell us to do, and refrain from what they tell us to refrain from doing. It is a way of life, not a Sunday thing, as with most religions falsely claiming to be Christian. We must work to provide food, shelter, transportation, to comply with the secular authorities, and many countless other things. As a result of being no part of the world, many problems arise. I am asked constantly why I don't celebrate this or that holiday. Why I don't vote, or cheer on a football team. The things I do are far more important to our creator than those things are to their participants. The persecution I experience as a result of being no part of the world isn't pleasant, but it tells me that I am on the right track.

John 15:17 “These things I command you, that you love one another. 18 If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you. 20 Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours. 21 But they will do all these things against you on account of my name, because they do not know the One who sent me.

 

[jeager106]

Yes. A metaphor of work. Why use a word meaning work if it doesn't mean to work? What you posted about what the scripture means is written by a person like you. Do you believe commentary originates with God?

You see "enevenly yoked" as a metaphore for work. If you examine the Scriptures you should be able to see that "enevenly yolked" means not a matched pair, as in a pair of oxen, one larger than the other. Those 2 oxen can't work together to produce the desired results. Ergo two people not of the same spiritual condition cannot produce the desired results. They (metaphorically) pull against one another.
Not everyone is able to see with eyes of descernment or keep an open mind as to how Scripture makes meaning.
It may not be easy for many to disregard conventional thinking and being stuck in tradition. Many will "logic" their way into believing a lie. It's more comfortable and easy to just argue in support of the lie, thus go along with the "world".

 

[MikeSavage]

You see "enevenly yoked" as a metaphore for work. If you examine the Scriptures you should be able to see that "enevenly yolked" means not a matched pair, as in a pair of oxen, one larger than the other. Those 2 oxen can't work together to produce the desired results. Ergo two people not of the same spiritual condition cannot produce the desired results. They (metaphorically) pull against one another.
Not everyone is able to see with eyes of descernment or keep an open mind as to how Scripture makes meaning.
It may not be easy for many to disregard conventional thinking and being stuck in tradition. Many will "logic" their way into believing a lie. It's more comfortable and easy to just argue in support of the lie, thus go along with the "world".

Actually, the metaphor of "unevenly yoked" in most of the references in the scriptures refers to marriage, or friends. A true Christian is admonished not to marry an non-believer, and a true Christian is admonished to not have as friends, those who are non-believers. Surely you can see the problems associated with such an unevenly yoked relationship.

 

[savagewind]

All marriages regure some work as in building a home, raising the children and perhaps growing food. There is no "work" associated with friendships.