Does Contemporary Pornography Spread and Encourage Rape Culture?

[Sunstone]

Do you think contemporary pornography spreads and/or encourages rape culture in our societies? Why or why not?

My own view is that some of it doesn't, but much of it does, and the trend seems towards the stuff that does.

BONUS QUESTION: What, if anything, would you do about porn that seems to spread and/or encourage rape culture, assuming at least some porn does so?

 

[Innominate]

Do you think contemporary pornography spreads and/or encourages rape culture in our societies? Why or why not?

Seeing that I don't watch porn whatsoever, I can't comment on what pornography is the most popular. I have done some reading into fetishes due to my interest in the subject, and I'll presume that these fetishes all have their corresponding representation in pornographic videos.
This being said, it's fair to say that some fetishes and their videos encourage the "rape culture." It may have shifted the interests of someone from x to y, with y being non-consensual sexual exploits. Sexual urges seem to be incredibly strong, and having someone interested in these sick acts is concerning.

BONUS QUESTION: What, if anything, would you do about porn that seems to spread and/or encourage rape culture, assuming at least some porn does so?

Ah, what to do, what to do. What can you do? Child pornography is taken offline with penalties due to it's exploitation of children and its potential to shift interests towards such. Perhaps there should be similar action here, but it's a hard question to answer. With child porn, there is the immoral act of sexual exploitation of children. With mock rape videos (which is what I think you're referring to), the rape isn't actually occurring. But then again, it might spike interest in such fetishes. I'm too wishy-washy here (but hey, at least I laid groundwork for both sides ), I guess I'll sit back and enjoy the commenting.

 

[WyattDerp]

It's not just pornography I think.. I generally find the mixing of sex and violence very disturbing. What to do? I'd say it's a cultural problem and therefore calls for cultural solutions, right? I mean, even something like kids calling an overwhelming win in a game "rape" does annoy me, but I know I would also not want to outlaw that, that's going too far; I generally think speech should be free, but then we should respond to it, if you know what I mean. "It's just a joke/movie/game/fetish" should be no magic protection against criticism, at any rate.

 

[Sunstone]

It's not just pornography I think.. I generally find the mixing of sex and violence very disturbing. What to do? I'd say it's a cultural problem and therefore calls for cultural solutions, right? I mean, even something like kids calling an overwhelming win in a game "rape" does annoy me, but I know I would also not want to outlaw that, that's going too far; I generally think speech should be free, but then we should respond to it, if you know what I mean. "It's just a joke/movie/game/fetish" should be no magic protection against criticism, at any rate.

Interesting comments. Do you think all speech should be protected? Or are there exceptions to what should be protected -- such as child porn not being protected?

 

[Sunstone]

With mock rape videos (which is what I think you're referring to), the rape isn't actually occurring.

Actually, there are some pretty creditable sources -- such as the journalist Chris Hedges -- who are now saying that much of what is passed off as "mock rape" is actually quite violent and results in bodily injury to the actresses.

 

[Innominate]

Actually, there are some pretty creditable sources -- such as the journalist Chris Hedges -- who are now saying that much of what is passed off as "mock rape" is actually quite violent and results in bodily injury to the actresses.

As long as it's consensual.. should be outlawed? If they agree to the injury..it seems almost defensible.

 

[Sunstone]

As long as it's consensual.. should be outlawed? If they agree to the injury..it seems almost defensible.

Interesting point. I get the impression from reading Hedges and others that many of the actresses don't know what they're getting themselves into. Or are more or less compelled to do it by financial need.

 

[Innominate]

Interesting point. I get the impression from reading Hedges and others that many of the actresses don't know what they're getting themselves into. Or are more or less compelled to do it by financial need.

Restrictions are put on rights all the time for safety. Perhaps there should be a restriction on this industry. Maybe employers in this field should be forced to show the findings of the studies to potential employees.

And this is all on the presumption that you can track down the employers. And also that the videos are all mock videos.

EDIT:
Also, think about the BDSM culture. Aren't many people consenting to injury here?

 

[WyattDerp]

Interesting comments. Do you think all speech should be protected? Or are there exceptions to what should be protected -- such as child porn not being protected?

I'm actually not sure how far I would go with it. I like that swastikas are forbidden in Germany, but I also don't think it really solves the problem.. it's just nicer to not see swastikas in the meantime. And of course it should not be allowed to film kids or otherwise abuse and exploit them :/ And also not to pass such stuff on, etc.

But where possible, I prefer to err on the side of free speech for sure.. for example, if someone says "rape" in a game and I report them, that'd be just petty.. instead saying that it's a messed up thing to say, that's better, and a long shot from letting it slide which is the norm. It actually even has more effect too, I think... running to the cops for everything instead of standing for what you think is right is sometimes just not very impressive, and nobody learns anything.. only that there is a punishment for X that is preferably avoided, not that there is actually something wrong with X.

 

[Sunstone]

Restrictions are put on rights all the time for safety. Perhaps there should be a restriction on this industry. Maybe employers in this field should be forced to show the findings of the studies to potential employees.

Yeah, I'm leaning towards that too. We try to protect employees in other industries by ensuring certain standards for a safe work environment. Maybe it's time to protect employees in this industry as well.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm actually not sure how far I would go with it. I like that swastikas are forbidden in Germany, but I also don't think it really solves the problem.. it's just nicer to not see swastikas in the meantime. And of course it should not be allowed to film kids or otherwise abuse and exploit them :/ And also not to pass such stuff on, etc.

But where possible, I prefer to err on the side of free speech for sure.. for example, if someone says "rape" in a game and I report them, that'd be just petty.. instead saying that it's a messed up thing to say, that's better, and a long shot from letting it slide which is the norm. It actually even has more effect too, I think... running to the cops for everything instead of standing for what you think is right is sometimes just not very impressive, and nobody learns anything.. only that there is a punishment for X that is preferably avoided, not that there is actually something wrong with X.

One thing that concerns me about imposing limits to speech is that, unless carefully written, such limits might become precedents to imposing limits to political speech. For instance, the old obscenity laws were often enough used to limit political speech by declaring certain books or works obscene.

 

[Innominate]

I like that swastikas are forbidden in Germany,

Okay;

but I also don't think it really solves the problem..

Then why do you like that they're forbidden? Should you "err on the side of free speech?"

it's just nicer to not see swastikas in the meantime.

That's one of the weaker arguments I've heard for this level of free speech restriction.. but then again, I haven't seen too many strong ones.

instead saying that it's a messed up thing to say, that's better, and a long shot from letting it slide which is the norm. It actually even has more effect too, I think... running to the cops for everything instead of standing for what you think is right is sometimes just not very impressive, and nobody learns anything.. only that there is a punishment for X that is preferably avoided, not that there is actually something wrong with X.

Well...THAT seems to be the position I would expect from you on the Swastika issue.. but then again, this isn't particularly related to the main post.

 

[Skwim]

From:

"US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health

Pornography and rape: theory and practice? Evidence from crime data in four countries where pornography is easily available.


Abstract

We have looked at the empirical evidence of the well-known feminist dictum: "pornography is the theory--rape is the practice" (Morgan, 1980). While earlier research, notably that generated by the U.S. Commission on Obscenity and Pornography (1970) had found no evidence of a causal link between pornography and rape, a new generation of behavioral scientists have, for more than a decade, made considerable effort to prove such a connection, especially as far as "aggressive pornography" is concerned. . . .


. . . . Since, however, the rape figures could not simply be expected to remain steady during the period in question (when it is well known that most other crimes increased considerably), the development of rape rates was compared with that of non-sexual violent offences and nonviolent sexual offences (in so far as available statistics permitted). The results showed that in none of the countries did rape increase more than nonsexual violent crimes. This finding in itself would seem sufficient to discard the hypothesis that pornography causes rape

SOURCE AND MORE


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[WyattDerp]

That's one of the weaker arguments I've heard for this level of free speech restriction.. but then again, I haven't seen too many strong ones.

"This level?" Oh my. It's allowed to use swastikas in documentations, and even when making fun of Nazis. Just not to glorify them. So what good is curtailed here? What kind of communication is now not possible that would be possible otherwise?

 

[Innominate]

From:

"US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health

Pornography and rape: theory and practice? Evidence from crime data in four countries where pornography is easily available.


Abstract

We have looked at the empirical evidence of the well-known feminist dictum: "pornography is the theory--rape is the practice" (Morgan, 1980). While earlier research, notably that generated by the U.S. Commission on Obscenity and Pornography (1970) had found no evidence of a causal link between pornography and rape, a new generation of behavioral scientists have, for more than a decade, made considerable effort to prove such a connection, especially as far as "aggressive pornography" is concerned. . . .


. . . . Since, however, the rape figures could not simply be expected to remain steady during the period in question (when it is well known that most other crimes increased considerably), the development of rape rates was compared with that of non-sexual violent offences and nonviolent sexual offences (in so far as available statistics permitted). The results showed that in none of the countries did rape increase more than nonsexual violent crimes. This finding in itself would seem sufficient to discard the hypothesis that pornography causes rape

[UR.L]


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I'm not an expert in the field of behavior and certainly don't know much about its links with sexuality.. so right now all that I know is that there are two conflicting studies (when is there not?). Taking into regard my lack of expertise here, if this study were true, okay. I would still be in favor of letting the employees realize the risk involved.

Perhaps there is a similar parallel in music.. I, as a "metalhead," often hear claims that music can inspire violence (instead of draw in those that are already violent or set off something in the predisposed), and I always think "hogwash!" If sexuality's effects don't change the parallel here, then I guess it would be fair to take the same position.

But then again, I don't know what's true and what isn't here.

 

[WyattDerp]

From:

"US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health

Pornography and rape: theory and practice? Evidence from crime data in four countries where pornography is easily available.


Abstract

We have looked at the empirical evidence of the well-known feminist dictum: "pornography is the theory--rape is the practice" (Morgan, 1980). While earlier research, notably that generated by the U.S. Commission on Obscenity and Pornography (1970) had found no evidence of a causal link between pornography and rape, a new generation of behavioral scientists have, for more than a decade, made considerable effort to prove such a connection, especially as far as "aggressive pornography" is concerned. . . .


. . . . Since, however, the rape figures could not simply be expected to remain steady during the period in question (when it is well known that most other crimes increased considerably), the development of rape rates was compared with that of non-sexual violent offences and nonviolent sexual offences (in so far as available statistics permitted). The results showed that in none of the countries did rape increase more than nonsexual violent crimes. This finding in itself would seem sufficient to discard the hypothesis that pornography causes rape

SOURCE AND MORE


​

That's not very recent, or I should say, it's from before the interwebs..

 

[Sunstone]

But then again, I don't know what's true and what isn't here.

Pretty much the case with anything in life.

 

[Innominate]

"This level?" Oh my. It's allowed to use swastikas in documentations, and even when making fun of Nazis. Just not to glorify them. So what good is curtailed here? What kind of communication is now not possible that would be possible otherwise?

Who here is deciding what is good and what isn't? The neo-Nazis think they're good (not to mention religious groups that utilize swastikas, but that isn't entirely related), even if I don't. The free expression for neo-Nazis is limited. I realize that supported freedom of expression for a group widely regarded as bad isn't an easy pill to swallow, but let's support freedom of expression for all ideas. Some extreme metal music genres I listen to describe acts of horrid violence and other morally reprehensible acts, but I would most definitely not support banning the allowance of them to make these lyrics.

 

[Skwim]

That's not very recent, or I should say, it's from before the interwebs..

You think the internet has somehow changed pornography's relationship to rape?

FWIW

From 2006

"Does pornography breed rape? Do violent movies breed violent crime? Quite the opposite, it seems.

First, porn. What happens when more people view more of it? The rise of the Internet offers a gigantic natural experiment. Better yet, because Internet usage caught on at different times in different states, it offers 50 natural experiments.

The bottom line on these experiments is, "More Net access, less rape." A 10 percent increase in Net access yields about a 7.3 percent decrease in reported rapes. States that adopted the Internet quickly saw the biggest declines. And, according to Clemson professor Todd Kendall, the effects remain even after you control for all of the obvious confounding variables, such as alcohol consumption, police presence, poverty and unemployment rates, population density, and so forth."
source
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[WyattDerp]

Who here is deciding what is good and what isn't? The neo-Nazis think they're good (not to mention religious groups that utilize swastikas, but that isn't entirely related), even if I don't.

They also think killing people who think otherwise is the best idea ever, which the Hitler salute and swastikas stand for. That is why I, having found the situation of swastikas being banned as pre-existing, and seeing not any indication of that being used to ban other stuff -- ever --, no desire to petition to allow the swastika and Hitler salute back.

Some extreme metal music genres I listen to describe acts of horrid violence and other morally reprehensible acts

WTF? You cannot compare people who want the NSDAP back with some drunk kids in mosh pits. Neo-nazis don't just indulge in innocent daydreams of violence. And as I said, I don't think banning the swastika achieves anything.. but *anything* that hurts or annoys these people I celebrate. Sue me. The stuff you mentioned to me is the mental equivalent of cutting. Sad, but not comparable to politically organizing to ultimately murder systematically.