Does Death End it All?

[adi2d]

It is not a fear of death that leads me to believe what I do. Perhaps for some it is though, but for myself I could care less what ultimately happens to us after we die. For me it is something that I believe personally based on certain things that I have seen or experienced for myself. I get that you don't believe in life after death, but I have my own reasons for believing in it and it is not because I have some underlying fear of death. I would say that is an unfair generalization you make of people who simply believe things differently. My girlfriend does not believe this stuff because she fears death, she believes it because she sees it.

Does your girlfriend own a gift shop? Is her name jennifer lawrence?



I know I watch too many old tv shows. Blame netflix

 

[Runewolf1973]

No. She actually doesn't like that show for some reason. I think it's too fuffy-bunnyish. Lol.

 

[Sees]

The big difference is certainly experiences and what of our ideology is unshakable.

A lot of skeptical folks are not really skeptical at all - but dogmatically opposed.... there is no open-mindedness to things outside of what is "officially" or "scientifically" proven or outside of their own experiences and abilities.

It is easy to say delusion and mental-illness is responsible for all such things but it's not truly scientific...and by no means official.

 

[adi2d]

The big difference is certainly experiences and what of our ideology is unshakable.

A lot of skeptical folks are not really skeptical at all - but dogmatically opposed.... there is no open-mindedness to things outside of what is "officially" or "scientifically" proven or outside of their own experiences and abilities.

It is easy to say delusion and mental-illness is responsible for all such things but it's not truly scientific...and by no means official.

I'm not sure who you are responding to. I certainly wasn't saying delusion or mental illness. Just shooting for a little levity. Swing and a miss apparently

 

[Sees]

I'm not sure who you are responding to. I certainly wasn't saying delusion or mental illness. Just shooting for a little levity. Swing and a miss apparently

It was a mass response lol

no direct target

Being a skeptic and skepticism in general is all sorts of abused...opposition is trumpeted as skepticism, badge of truth, and openness when it is none of those.

 

[Thief]

It appears that the activity in your brain is what makes you "alive" and enables us to perceive this world.

Just like if you were to lose the functioning of your eyes, you will be blind. Ergo, I think it's reasonable to assume once your brain dies - you die.

So I think it's safe to assume that death is the end.

I've been blind seven days....did not stop 'seeing'.
I've had my arms go cold and unresponsive.....did not stop 'feeling'.

As for the brain...
True enough it seems the connection between you and this world.
Lose your brain and the connection is lost.

But that doesn't draw conclusion.

and like I've posted so many times....
7billion copies of a learning device....and no one survives the last breath?
Not a chance?
Billions to none?

If it all ends in dust ..then Man is a mystery with no purpose or resolve.

 

[Aquitaine]

I've been blind seven days....did not stop 'seeing'.
I've had my arms go cold and unresponsive.....did not stop 'feeling'.

As for the brain...
True enough it seems the connection between you and this world.
Lose your brain and the connection is lost.

But that doesn't draw conclusion.

and like I've posted so many times....
7billion copies of a learning device....and no one survives the last breath?
Not a chance?
Billions to none?

If it all ends in dust ..then Man is a mystery with no purpose or resolve.

If it's any consolation, we've all been "dead" or in a state of non-existence before. Like every other living thing we're born, live, and then die.

"Purpose" is up to the individual to decide for him/herself in my opinion.

 

[Thief]

If it's any consolation, we've all been "dead" or in a state of non-existence before. Like every other living thing we're born, live, and then die.

"Purpose" is up to the individual to decide for him/herself in my opinion.

The common condition is the indicator.
We are here to learn all that we can before we die.
The body can't do anything else.

Then the chemistry fails.

Then we either stand from the dust and go on....
or we go in the box and the box into the ground.

Eternal darkness is not a philosophical idea.
It is physically real.

Consolation........?

 

[Aquitaine]

The common condition is the indicator.
We are here to learn all that we can before we die.
The body can't do anything else.

Then the chemistry fails.

Then we either stand from the dust and go on....
or we go in the box and the box into the ground.

Eternal darkness is not a philosophical idea.
It is physically real.

Consolation........?

Well... you won't be alive to realize you're no longer alive, so try not to let it get you down.

The important thing in my opinion, is how traumatic one's actual process of dying is - the less traumatic the better.

 

[Thief]

Well... you won't be alive to realize you're no longer alive, so try not to let it get you down.

The important thing in my opinion, is how traumatic one's actual process of dying is - the less traumatic the better.

Having suffered....
The eyes do see tunnel vision....the peripheral view shrinks to center.
The ears ring out to a dead silence....literally.
The limbs turn cold and unresponsive.

That all happens as you are aware.

If you happen to be unconscious....too bad.

Trauma?....sure.
Every time?....nay.

But death awaits one and all.
Some of us will go quickly where others fear to tread.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Those who are on the other side disagree.

Feel free to read the scriptural explanation yourself and see if you agree.

YOu can find it here:

http://bahai-library.com/writings/abdulbaha/saq/81.html

Peace,

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

In Judaism, one of our greatest sages was Moshe Maimonides, who taught that doing good in order to go to heaven is just selfishness, not morality....

Small world!

Many religions say the same thing:

Baha'is, seeking individual salvation is an unworthy goal. As an eighth century Muslim poetess put it:

If I love Thee in fear of hell,
May I burn in hell.
If I love Thee in hope of Heaven,
Bar me from Heaven.
But if I love Thee for Thine own sake,
Deprive me not of the Beauty of Thy Face.

Or as the Bab put it:

“That which is worthy of His Essence is to worship Him for His sake, without fear of fire, or hope of paradise.”

―(Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 77)

"So worship God that if the recompense of thy worship of Him were to be the Fire, no alteration in thy worship of Him would be produced. If you worship from fear, that is unworthy of the threshold of the holiness of God.… So also, if your gaze is on Paradise, and if you worship in hope of that; for then you have made God’s creation a Partner with Him."
―The Bayan

Peace,

Bruce

 

[JayJayDee]

Fear of death does play a role in some people beliefs that is for sure.

The fear of death has been with man since the beginning. The first human to physically die was murdered by his brother. The finality of death must have really been driven home when this man Abel was gone, suddenly and completely from their lives. They had seen animals die, but never a human being of their own flesh and blood.

There was nothing in the sentence passed by God on Adam that gave any indication that life would continue after death. God's people were instructed about death and what to expect when it happened. (Eccl 9:5, 10) There was no thought, planning or activity of any sort in "sheol" (the grave).

But as man progressed in his sin, he moved further and further away from that belief. Satan had told the woman that she 'would not die'; a belief system based on that lie began to invade human thinking. All manner of 'destinations' began to be conjured up in the imaginations of man. With the thought that an immaterial part of man survived physical death, then places were invented for these 'souls' to go...some of them were blissful...others were terrifying....but none of them originated from the Bible.

Paul wrote "...that through his [Jesus'] death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil, and that he might set free all those who were held in slavery all their lives by their fear of death." (Heb 2:14, 15)

False beliefs resulted in a 'fear of death' for all the wrong reasons.

God's people have always known the truth, however. The scriptures have never deviated in their teaching about death and what comes after.

Life can be returned to the dead...but only by resurrection. How many people understand what the resurrection is all about?

Can any of you tell me what you believe resurrection (a·na′sta·sis) to mean?

We all know that Jesus was 'resurrected' but what does the Bible teach about it?

My parents are Christian for example... I remember telling my dad once that I didn't believe in a place called heaven. He said "Well I think it's better to believe and go to church than not to believe because what if you are wrong? Then you won't go to heaven." Lol.

I think we all know "Christians" like that. But these are not the ones recognized by God as genuine footstep followers of his son.

Two commands had to be in the hearts of all who wished to be counted worthy of being "known" by God.

“Jehovah knows those who belong to him,” and: “Let everyone naming the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness.” (2 Tim 2:19)

Our "knowing God" is not the important thing....it is being 'known by God' as one of his own. This is not just about performance by rote or out of habit or duty; it involves a deep love and reverence for the Creator and a shunning of all activity that he considers unrighteous.

When Jesus was asked...“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.” (Matt 22:36-40)


Before we can contemplate where our present life will take us, (whether there is life after death or not) we must first consider how our present life is evaluated by our Creator right now.


If we 'believe' that God exists, then there is obligation to him as our Creator to obey his commands....not just the convenient ones, but the inconvenient ones as well.

Mere belief means little really.

"You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder." (James 2:19)


If we have expectation of an afterlife, what are we expecting?.....and do we have a scriptural basis to believe it? How much are we taking for granted without really investigating our standing with God today, and what it means for our future?



If we are unbelievers, then we will get exactly what we are expecting, which is nothing.

 

[Runewolf1973]

The fear of death has been with man since the beginning. The first human to physically die was murdered by his brother. The finality of death must have really been driven home when this man Abel was gone, suddenly and completely from their lives. They had seen animals die, but never a human being of their own flesh and blood.

There was nothing in the sentence passed by God on Adam that gave any indication that life would continue after death. God's people were instructed about death and what to expect when it happened. (Eccl 9:5, 10) There was no thought, planning or activity of any sort in "sheol" (the grave).

But as man progressed in his sin, he moved further and further away from that belief. Satan had told the woman that she 'would not die'; a belief system based on that lie began to invade human thinking. All manner of 'destinations' began to be conjured up in the imaginations of man. With the thought that an immaterial part of man survived physical death, then places were invented for these 'souls' to go...some of them were blissful...others were terrifying....but none of them originated from the Bible.

Paul wrote "...that through his [Jesus'] death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil, and that he might set free all those who were held in slavery all their lives by their fear of death." (Heb 2:14, 15)

False beliefs resulted in a 'fear of death' for all the wrong reasons.

God's people have always known the truth, however. The scriptures have never deviated in their teaching about death and what comes after.

Life can be returned to the dead...but only by resurrection. How many people understand what the resurrection is all about?

Can any of you tell me what you believe resurrection (a·na′sta·sis) to mean?

We all know that Jesus was 'resurrected' but what does the Bible teach about it?



I think we all know "Christians" like that. But these are not the ones recognized by God as genuine footstep followers of his son.

Two commands had to be in the hearts of all who wished to be counted worthy of being "known" by God.

“Jehovah knows those who belong to him,” and: “Let everyone naming the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness.” (2 Tim 2:19)

Our "knowing God" is not the important thing....it is being 'known by God' as one of his own. This is not just about performance by rote or out of habit or duty; it involves a deep love and reverence for the Creator and a shunning of all activity that he considers unrighteous.

When Jesus was asked...“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.” (Matt 22:36-40)


Before we can contemplate where our present life will take us, (whether there is life after death or not) we must first consider how our present life is evaluated by our Creator right now.


If we 'believe' that God exists, then there is obligation to him as our Creator to obey his commands....not just the convenient ones, but the inconvenient ones as well.

Mere belief means little really.

"You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder." (James 2:19)


If we have expectation of an afterlife, what are we expecting?.....and do we have a scriptural basis to believe it? How much are we taking for granted without really investigating our standing with God today, and what it means for our future?



If we are unbelievers, then we will get exactly what we are expecting, which is nothing.

I don't believe in Gods.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Our consciousness is embedded in the binary of our brain and its other illusions. Once removed, no exact copy can replace it, it would only remain a copy.

However, if you think about it like this;

If "you" were to live my life, EXACTLY how it is, you most likely would have the same perception to everything as well as the same emotion. If there is no difference, other than in soul (which is unobservable and unmeasurable), but otherwise you'd be me. This makes me believe that we are all One, containing an illusion of individuality. We can never be completely removed from the system. God is the system and we are the codes.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Feel free to read the scriptural explanation yourself and see if you agree.

YOu can find it here:

http://bahai-library.com/writings/abdulbaha/saq/81.html

Peace,

Bruce

I don't believe in Gods. Those on the other side say there is no evidence for the existence of any gods.

BTW, they don't say that God does not exist, they merely say that no one on the other side has come across such a God thus far. This could mean one of two things, either God does not exist, or God does not reside on that 'earthbound' plane of existence which my girlfriend sees. I would suspect that if this God of yours does exist, then he resides on a much higher plane, not the 'earthbound'.


---

 

[JayJayDee]

I don't believe in Gods. Those on the other side say there is no evidence for the existence of any gods.

If "those on the other side" (the other side of what, I have to ask? ) say that there is no evidence for any god(s), then perhaps that is what they want you to believe?

Did it ever occur to you that these ones might be deceiving your GF into believing a lie?

BTW, they don't say that God does not exist, they merely say that no one on the other side has come across such a God thus far. This could mean one of two things, either God does not exist, or God does not reside on that 'earthbound' plane of existence which my girlfriend sees.

I'd go for number two...do I get a prize?

I would suspect that if this God of yours does exist, then he resides on a much higher plane, not the 'earthbound'.

As I am a Bible believing Christian, I am not a believer in 'earthbound spirits of the dead', but I do believe in earthbound demonic spirits who have been confined here by God before he puts them away for 1,000 years of inactivity.

If you are deceived by a master con artist, would you know until its too late? :help:
If the ones your GF sees are demons masquerading as dead people, how would she know the difference?

 

[Sees]

If "those on the other side" (the other side of what, I have to ask? ) say that there is no evidence for any god(s), then perhaps that is what they want you to believe?

Did it ever occur to you that these ones might be deceiving your GF into believing a lie?



I'd go for number two...do I get a prize?



As I am a Bible believing Christian, I am not a believer in 'earthbound spirits of the dead', but I do believe in earthbound demonic spirits who have been confined here by God before he puts them away for 1,000 years of inactivity.

If you are deceived by a master con artist, would you know until its too late? :help:
If the ones your GF sees are demons masquerading as dead people, how would she know the difference?

You could play that game endlessly...

How do you know Satan isn't Jehovah's trickster split personality since he conveniently lets him run the world? Or maybe Jehovah's and Satan's roles are reversed...and Jehovah wants people to rebel against the true God named Satan?

How would we know it was Jehovah or a real God who tempted Abraham to kill sacrifice his child? Maybe the exterminations and baby smashing into rocks stuff was demonic inspiration?

Anything that is experienced outside of old texts will be claimed demonic trickery by some. Why should everybody have dead religion or spirituality based off the fear and control dictated by another's worshipped prophets or gurus?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

No matter what we are taught.
No matter what we believe.
the final answer may well be different.

The real question is how should we live this life now...
Should the expectations of a future existence make any difference to what we do now.

I think not.

we should do everything now to the best of our ability, for the benefit of the future of this world.

It is not a punishment /reward system, where the final result depends on a chance choice of a religion.
What happens next must come as a surprise to a majority of us.
It may well not be a continuance of a concious existence.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Well, you know what they say...seeing is believing. I'm sure those who've had NDE's can somewhat relate to this also.