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Does Death End it All?

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]
That's it exactly.
Man is spirit in a physical body.

The physical body is temporary and perishable. The spirit within - the real you - is eternal.
I agree.
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I see the physical body as akin to a machine we use to get around this[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]particular plane. Just as I still carry on even when my car breaks[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]down (since I am not my car), I will carry on even though my body breaks[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]down (since I am not my body).


-
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9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
What are your individual thoughts on death and where it takes us?

I see no good reason to believe anything happens to us after we die. I think it's better to live in the here and now than worry about something that could be several years away.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I don't mean to be negative towards your discussion, because it is interesting to watch and learn what other people think.

But... how can anyone today care what a man possibly named Matthew believed about the afterlife all those centuries ago? Of course, if he got divine influence to say what he did, then that's cool and all, but how does anyone "know" that this stuff is from divine influence and not just Matthew's personal Iron Age beliefs?

Because Matthew says so himself? Because someone else said so about Matthew? Because Matthew is an authority and we just take his word for it? That same Matthew who listed the geneaology of Jesus from which it follows that only a few thousand years have passed since the first human, which we today know is just false? Is this the Matthew who we let form our beliefs about the afterlife, or should we investigate it with an open mind and follow the evidence wherever it leads?

Is there a good reason to believe that he knew more about neuroscience, biology and chemistry than modern-day scientists? The question of an immortal soul that goes on after death is a scientific one, and let's face it, Matthew has enough obvious blunders that we shouldn't take his word as truth when it comes to questions of life and death.

Better than Mathew is the evidence from modern parapsychology investigations and the the teachings of modern spiritual masters in my book.

I think you are trying to limit our choices to either the Bible or Modern Science in the above post; clearly favoring the latter. There's much more to consider.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I see no good reason to believe anything happens to us after we die. I think it's better to live in the here and now than worry about something that could be several years away.

Our years are quick.
Things that die seem to stay that way.

I suspect this form we live in is made to form ...spirit.
I see this as good reason to continue.....reasoning.
 

suzy smith

Life is for having fun
Speaking as an atheist I have no fear of death at all. Why? Because for billions of years before I existed I was fine, so I will be just as fine after I go. I know I am being a bit flippant here but you can see my point.
And as for loosing a loved one, well I see just as much grief when a theist looses a loved one as an atheist. But an atheist can accept the pure logical fact that as an animal [I higher primate] that is just how it is. And we move on.
 

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
Our years are quick.
Things that die seem to stay that way.

I suspect this form we live in is made to form ...spirit.
I see this as good reason to continue.....reasoning.

and I suspect that this form is all we have.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Speaking as an atheist I have no fear of death at all. Why? Because for billions of years before I existed I was fine, so I will be just as fine after I go. I know I am being a bit flippant here but you can see my point.
And as for loosing a loved one, well I see just as much grief when a theist looses a loved one as an atheist. But an atheist can accept the pure logical fact that as an animal [I higher primate] that is just how it is. And we move on.

I find that most atheists are the product of the actions and speech of hypocritical religion. If many representatives of a company behave in a way that brings the whole company into disrepute, then massive loss of the customer base is to be expected.

But have you ever seen those TV show where the boss of a company goes undercover to see what his employees are really up to and what they think of the boss? Those he finds loyally doing their job in spite of the activities of those around them, get rewarded and I guess those who are found to be disloyal, lazy or dishonest, get their marching orders.

What if God is like that undercover boss and the loyalty reward is everlasting life. What if the marching order is everlasting death?

Who cares about death if they have no belief in any restoration of life in the first place? The marching orders mean little to them. They have no one to answer to but themselves and they already expect what is coming for them. They merely go back to where they were before....they did not exist then, they will not exist after death.

It is only those who have an inner conviction that this life is not all there is, who care about what "the boss" thinks of them and their activities, who will do what they believe is right in the eyes of God.

It doesn't matter what others are doing or thinking....it only matters what YOU think and do as an individual among the masses.

We will reap what we have sown and the "boss" has his eye on us.
 

thau

Well-Known Member
I don't mean to be negative towards your discussion, because it is interesting to watch and learn what other people think.

But... how can anyone today care what a man possibly named Matthew believed about the afterlife all those centuries ago? Of course, if he got divine influence to say what he did, then that's cool and all, but how does anyone "know" that this stuff is from divine influence and not just Matthew's personal Iron Age beliefs?

Because Matthew says so himself? Because someone else said so about Matthew? Because Matthew is an authority and we just take his word for it? That same Matthew who listed the geneaology of Jesus from which it follows that only a few thousand years have passed since the first human, which we today know is just false? Is this the Matthew who we let form our beliefs about the afterlife, or should we investigate it with an open mind and follow the evidence wherever it leads?

Is there a good reason to believe that he knew more about neuroscience, biology and chemistry than modern-day scientists? The question of an immortal soul that goes on after death is a scientific one, and let's face it, Matthew has enough obvious blunders that we shouldn't take his word as truth when it comes to questions of life and death.

Which raises the question why are Matthew’s words still so prominent and while untold thousands of others’ never took root? Favorable circumstances?

The more important question is why is Jesus such a powerful force in this world 2000 years hence? I believe because Jesus performed many miracles and marveled the crowds. Only then did they listen to his message about God and what God asks of them. Jesus said in John 10 “if you will not believe me, then put faith in the works that I perform.” Seems apparent without His many miracles Jesus, too, would have been forgotten eventually.
 

thau

Well-Known Member
Speaking as an atheist I have no fear of death at all. Why? Because for billions of years before I existed I was fine, so I will be just as fine after I go. I know I am being a bit flippant here but you can see my point.
And as for loosing a loved one, well I see just as much grief when a theist looses a loved one as an atheist. But an atheist can accept the pure logical fact that as an animal [I higher primate] that is just how it is. And we move on.



And as a believer, I cannot resign myself to what you as an atheist can. You are right on that and I see the logic in your perspectives.

Oblivion I guess is not the worst of fates, perhaps that has always been God’s design for those who may not “get there” but He did not see the wisdom in teaching it that way? A lot of us work better under the fear factor.

For me personally, there are too many emotionally charged reasons never to want such a fate, and even more empirical reasons to be assured that the afterlife is real.

I will not submit any evidence for the supernatural here, but just out of a hunch alone I would convince myself something wonderful created us. And man in some ways of measuring is nothing short of a million times more advanced than his nearest primate. We are rational, and of deep thought and creativity and wonder. The list goes on, but we are far too different than the rest of the animal kingdom to have achieved such a status via some molecular happenstance, or what others think is possible via “natural selection.” I cannot see that.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Speaking as an atheist I have no fear of death at all. Why? Because for billions of years before I existed I was fine, so I will be just as fine after I go. I know I am being a bit flippant here but you can see my point.
And as for loosing a loved one, well I see just as much grief when a theist looses a loved one as an atheist. But an atheist can accept the pure logical fact that as an animal [I higher primate] that is just how it is. And we move on.

If you were fine 'before'....and you will soon 'move on'...
then you had a life before this one and will continue to the next?
 

suzy smith

Life is for having fun
If you were fine 'before'....and you will soon 'move on'...
then you had a life before this one and will continue to the next?

I was making the point that I did not exist before I was born and I will not exist after I die therefore it is illogical to fear death.
But I said it in a light-hearted jockey sort of way......sorry if that confused you.:)
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Speaking as an atheist I have no fear of death at all. Why? Because for billions of years before I existed I was fine, so I will be just as fine after I go. I know I am being a bit flippant here but you can see my point.
And as for loosing a loved one, well I see just as much grief when a theist looses a loved one as an atheist. But an atheist can accept the pure logical fact that as an animal [I higher primate] that is just how it is. And we move on.

That's how I see it also, no neurosis attached, just living life simply how it should be lived.:atheist:
 

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
Why so short on possibility?

As I said earlier. I see no reason(s) to believe in anything after death

7billion copies of a learning device.....and not one chance of something more?

What does that have to do with life after death?

All of us fail?.....nothing but dust?

I don't think so.

..and you are entitled to your opinion. If you want to convince me that you're correct though you'll need some good reasons.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
As I said earlier. I see no reason(s) to believe in anything after death



What does that have to do with life after death?



..and you are entitled to your opinion. If you want to convince me that you're correct though you'll need some good reasons.

I see the possibility AS reason.
If you can take away the possibility THEN there is no reason to believe.

I reiterate.
Too many possibilities....no reason to say 'nay'.
 

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
I see the possibility AS reason.
If you can take away the possibility THEN there is no reason to believe.

So if it's possible that a magical pink unicorn exists....

I reiterate.
Too many possibilities....no reason to say 'nay'.

If possibility is the only reason you can come up with then I see no reason to say 'yay' either
 

psychoslice

Veteran Member
So if it's possible that a magical pink unicorn exists....



If possibility is the only reason you can come up with then I see no reason to say 'yay' either

Yes those who are afraid of death will cling to anything that may give them hope, possibility being one of those.
 
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