Does death end ones life?

[The Wizard]

It seems to perplex theists and atheists alike that one believes in a god or spiritual entity yet is not certain as to what occurs post-death. Somehow it is intertwined in common thought that believe in god is a belief in divine judgement and an afterlife.

First sentence; Well, most I know don't have such a contradiction as far as beliefs and afterlife. Second sentence; Umm..second sentence is saying opposite of first, so I'm lost on what you're saying.. Unless those perplexed people simply are not of the comman thought variety...

 

[ron4711]

It seems to perplex theists and atheists alike that one believes in a god or spiritual entity yet is not certain as to what occurs post-death. Somehow it is intertwined in common thought that believe in god is a belief in divine judgement and an afterlife.

Not all religions believe in an afterlife. I for one am not perplexed at all as to why some people believe in an afterlife, it is the manifestation of a natural desire to live for eternity. BTW there are atheists who believe in an afterlife.

 

[Sha'irullah]

First sentence; Well, most I know don't have such a contradiction as far as beliefs and afterlife. Second sentence; Umm..second sentence is saying opposite of first, so I'm lost on what you're saying.. Unless those perplexed people simply are not of the comman thought variety...

The second sentence means that most atheists and theists (primarily Christians) believe that if a person believe in god then they believe in a heaven or hell for acceptance of that deity and secondly some theists claim that everyone goes to hell so not all theists believe accept divine judgement and an afterlife as mutual. Some Christians for example believe you go to hell or heaven based on that deities judgement while you have have other religions that believe in reincarnation, inclusive heaven or rebirths.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Not all religions believe in an afterlife. I for one am not perplexed at all as to why some people believe in an afterlife, it is the manifestation of a natural desire to live for eternity. BTW there are atheists who believe in an afterlife.

I have heard of atheists who accept reincarnation in a strictly scientific viewpoint since the immortality of consciousness and its source is debate still ll is heavily debated.
The only theists who do not accept a full afterlife are some Jews and I have had the luxury of meeting s jew who does not accept the existence of the soul

 

[StarryNightshade]

It means the end of physical life, definitely. We are subject to entropy and, once our heart and brain stops functioning, our physical bodies decay and return to the earth.

However, does death mean the end of ones spiritual life? No idea. I personally believe in reincarnation and a "state of consciousness" kind of afterlife, but belief does not equate to truth.

BTW there are atheists who believe in an afterlife.

I'm not an atheist, but I've heard of this and it is an interesting notion. Out of curiosity, objectively, how can one be an atheist while believing in an afterlife?

 

[McBell]

I'm not an atheist, but I've heard of this and it is an interesting notion. Out of curiosity, objectively, how can one be an atheist while believing in an afterlife?

Does there have to be god in order for there to be an after life?

 

[The Wizard]

The second sentence means that most atheists and theists (primarily Christians) believe that if a person believe in god then they believe in a heaven or hell for acceptance of that deity and secondly some theists claim that everyone goes to hell so not all theists believe accept divine judgement and an afterlife as mutual. Some Christians for example believe you go to hell or heaven based on that deities judgement while you have have other religions that believe in reincarnation, inclusive heaven or rebirths.

ok.. Thanks... I just misinterpreted the words... Yes, a very diverse world out there...

 

[StarryNightshade]

Does there have to be god in order for there to be an after life?

Not necessarily. Anything is possible; whether or not any God exists.

It's just most atheists, at least the ones I know, would not even consider the notion of an afterlife and lump it with other "superstitious" nonsense such as God or reincarnation.

 

[Penumbra]

People are often not particularly clear on exactly what they expect will survive death and how.

Chemicals or physical interaction with the brain can change its state of awareness from fully aware to not aware at all, and various states of partial awareness in between.

Damage to the brain, like in the case of head trauma or a stroke, can alter a person's personality and/or erase their memories. Personality is also related to the development of neurons, so if a person has a genetic or congenital problem, or they are abused and denied stimuli, they can fail to develop a complex enough set of neural connections to have an intelligent personality.

So various things are linked with the brain in a correlative and oftentimes causal manner. If that brain is destroyed, then what do we expect to happen?

The more vague an afterlife description is, the less there is to stay against it. Consciousness itself hasn't been figured out scientifically yet, other than that it can be diminished, shut off, or altered in a living brain by the aforementioned chemical or physical means.

If consciousness itself can survive death even though physical or chemical methods cans shut it off, but does not bring with it personality, then that's very different from what a lot of religions teach. Similarly, if consciousness itself can survive death but there is no biological cognitive machinery to be able to form memories from moment to moment and link quantum instances of awareness into a coherent stream of awareness, then it's essentially as though awareness doesn't exist, because it exists in bursts for an infinitesimally small duration without links between.

 

[Sumit]

People are often not particularly clear on exactly what they expect will survive death and how.

Aatman

Chemicals or physical interaction with the brain can change its state of awareness from fully aware to not aware at all, and various states of partial awareness in between.

Damage to the brain, like in the case of head trauma or a stroke, can alter a person's personality and/or erase their memories. Personality is also related to the development of neurons, so if a person has a genetic or congenital problem, or they are abused and denied stimuli, they can fail to develop a complex enough set of neural connections to have an intelligent personality.

So various things are linked with the brain in a correlative and oftentimes causal manner. If that brain is destroyed, then what do we expect to happen?

Brain just helps the aatman to gain access of body.

The more vague an afterlife description is, the less there is to stay against it. Consciousness itself hasn't been figured out scientifically yet, other than that it can be diminished, shut off, or altered in a living brain by the aforementioned chemical or physical means.

Science is not limited to those branches which world is familier with. There are more branches such as "Aadhyatma".

If consciousness itself can survive death even though physical or chemical methods cans shut it off, but does not bring with it personality, then that's very different from what a lot of religions teach. Similarly, if consciousness itself can survive death but there is no biological cognitive machinery to be able to form memories from moment to moment and link quantum instances of awareness into a coherent stream of awareness, then it's essentially as though awareness doesn't exist, because it exists in bursts for an infinitesimally small duration without links between.

Many people have certain characteristics which differ abnormally from their parents. Even two twins are not exactly same in behavior nature. We always inherit some characteristics from past lives. Many people question "If past life exists why don't we remember it??" . Ans is simple " do they remember every incidence of this life?? One can easily understand concept of reincarnation and even test it with help of Aadhyatma.

 

[Me Myself]

truth is usually found in non fiction

You seem to have a very inclusive definition of "non fiction", I merely provided some new "maybes" for you.

Though on a more serious note, there is also the mahabharat, the lotus sutras, the tao the ching, the oddissey...

Most of them older than the bible.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Not all religions believe in an afterlife. I for one am not perplexed at all as to why some people believe in an afterlife, it is the manifestation of a natural desire to live for eternity. BTW there are atheists who believe in an afterlife.

Not sure I agree that there is "a natural desire to live for eternity." I haven't met anyone yet who can really get their mind around "infinity" and/or "eternity." There might be a desire to live longer/do more than is possible in one lifetime, but FOREVER? I can't conceive of that, and of what I can conceive, I do not have any great desire to exist for that long. at least without change. And forgetfulness helps with that!

 

[Me Myself]

when someone dies, we have proof of exactly what happens to them. We have demonstrable evidence that their body rots and returns to dirt.

What we have absolutely NO evidence for is that these human bodies have a separate part to them which continues living. There is no way to demonstrate that it is true and therefore no evidence to support such a conclusion....its pure speculation, opinion and 'blind hope' imo.

There is also no evidence of consciousness ending. It is just an assumption, and erefore, a blind fear.

 

[Penumbra]

Aatman

Words like atman or soul have different meanings to different people and unless explained, are vague.

Brain just helps the aatman to gain access of body.

Evidence?

Science is not limited to those branches which world is familier with. There are more branches such as "Aadhyatma".

Can Aadhyatma be peer reviewed?

Is there a way to ensure that the entire exercise is not on the wrong course?

Many people have certain characteristics which differ abnormally from their parents.

Their genes, bodies, and experiences are significantly different from either parent.

Even two twins are not exactly same in behavior nature.

Their life experiences from inception are not identical.

We always inherit some characteristics from past lives.

This is a non-evidenced jump from your previous points; the conclusion does not follow from the premise even it's being asserted as though it does.

Many people question "If past life exists why don't we remember it??" . Ans is simple " do they remember every incidence of this life?? One can easily understand concept of reincarnation and even test it with help of Aadhyatma.

How did you test the concept of reincarnation?

 

[Pegg]

There is also no evidence of consciousness ending. It is just an assumption, and erefore, a blind fear.

when someone is lying dead, and we try to wake them up, and they can't be woken up...you can't communicate with them, they are unresponsive - that is a sign that the consciousness has ended.

 

[Draka]

truth is usually found in non fiction

And you classify your mythology as fiction or non-fiction? And why should everyone else classify it as so?

 

[McBell]

when someone is lying dead, and we try to wake them up, and they can't be woken up...you can't communicate with them, they are unresponsive - that is a sign that the consciousness has ended.

Ah, like coma patients...

 

[Sumit]

Evidence?

Tantra is evidence.

Can Aadhyatma be peer reviewed? Is there a way to ensure that the entire exercise is not on the wrong course?

Yes, but it needs efforts. Can you do that?

Their life experiences from inception are not identical.

Even two twins of 6 months are different in behavior. I don't think they have any life experience.

How did you test the concept of reincarnation?

Because I know many people who talk to the dead people by inviting their soul to the body of other person. But one's the soul take another birth it is no more available. I myself invited the soul but not in body of any person, however inviting them is sometimes dangerous to life.

 

[Penumbra]

Tantra is evidence.

In what way?

Yes, but it needs efforts. Can you do that?

In what way can it be peer reviewed?

Even two twins of 6 months are different in behavior. I don't think they have any life experience.

Even from the moment of being in the womb no two lives are completely identical, let alone by six months.

Because I know many people who talk to the dead people by inviting their soul to the body of other person. But one's the soul take another birth it is no more available. I myself invited the soul but not in body of any person, however inviting them is sometimes dangerous to life.

We can test this if you want. My father recently died, and you could invite him to your body to provide details about my life on this thread that only he would know. He's a nice guy so he shouldn't be dangerous.

If you can provide details to me that only he would know, I'll announce the news with a thread in a popular area that you did it.

Want to give it a shot? I'm game if you are.

 

[Sumit]

In what way?

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/hinduism-dir/146927-tantra-hinduism.html

In what way can it be peer reviewed?

By rising the level of consciousness.

Even from the moment of being in the womb no two lives are completely identical, let alone by six months.

But even the point remains, why many characteristics of two twins are different even at a age of 3 months.

We can test this if you want. My father recently died, and you could invite him to your body to provide details about my life on this thread that only he would know. He's a nice guy so he shouldn't be dangerous. If you can provide details to me that only he would know, I'll announce the news with a thread in a popular area that you did it.

Want to give it a shot? I'm game if you are.

I can't because soul is not omnipresent nor I have much power to call soul from far distances (As I have wasted many years as an atheist)but you can see your father. "Rudramala Tantra" gives the method to call soul.