Does faith compromise a person's ability to reason?

[strikeviperMKII]

not necessarily true...
just open any history book and you will see where religion has fallen short only because it depends on the subjective understanding of the many many interpretations of religion.

This happened because people insist on doing this:

but maybe we need to define religion...

one subjective understanding is that ones religion is the true religion another is the understanding of what religion qualifies as morality.

As for this, I don't really know where it came from. We're not talking about morality or 'one true religion'...whatever that means.

 

[Penumbra]

I believe faith distorts a person's sense of reality. People of faith are unable to use their reason to full effect. We see this occuring all the time. I myself experienced it when I had faith. My own journey as a Christian became more and more troubled towards the end, as I tried to use my reason to understand the countless theological, ethical, scientific and philosophical problems that my religion presented. Unfortunately, change does not come easy. Especially when there is the threat of eternal torture. Even thinking about the various problems Christianity presents seemed dangerous to me, as I thought I might be angering god. Religions that promote the concept of eternal torture are evil. Their God is a cruel psychopath. I hope these people will realize that their master is an evil tormenter, and that they have alligned themselves with the side of darkness and become blind followers of an evil being they imagine exists.

Faith is one of those things that has a lot of definitions. Some of them are rather benign, while others are harmful.

If faith means, "believing strongly in something without evidence, or perhaps even in spite of evidence", then I would say that yes, it reduces a person's ability to reason. That sort of mindset just isn't very conducive to reason.

But it's also an issue of whether it's causation or simply correlation. I could be that faith doesn't have any effect on a person's ability to reason, but their ability to reason will largely determine how much religious faith they have. I'd say it's probably a bit of both. There are some patterns of thought that attract people who aren't very good at critical thought, and for the people that follow such a thought pattern, it may further inhibit their ability to reason well.

 

[waitasec]

This happened because people insist on doing this:

As for this, I don't really know where it came from. We're not talking about morality or 'one true religion'...whatever that means.

you said...

Religion is about getting the courage to actually do the dropping. The rest happens automatically.

how would one get courage and what happens automatically?

 

[strikeviperMKII]

how would one get courage and what happens automatically?

You get the courage by giving it to yourself. As far as what happens automatically, that is very difficult to describe. The effects of what happens, however are quite easy. You will be more objective, and able to reason more clearly, as you will see your own biases. And that's just a start.

How, specifically, that happens to you depends on you. That said, the result is very much the same for everyone.

 

[waitasec]

You get the courage by giving it to yourself. As far as what happens automatically, that is very difficult to describe. The effects of what happens, however are quite easy. You will be more objective, and able to reason more clearly, as you will see your own biases. And that's just a start.

How, specifically, that happens to you depends on you. That said, the result is very much the same for everyone.

isn't it interesting that anyone can arrive to this objective and reasonable understanding without religion just by coming to terms with how little they know?

 

[Sunstone]

Would anyone say the great theologians of the Christian Church could not reason? If so, which have you studied and found wanting?

 

[strikeviperMKII]

isn't it interesting that anyone can arrive to this objective and reasonable understanding without religion just by coming to terms with how little they know?

As I said, if you do this correctly, it doesn't matter what you call it, you get the same result.

 

[Riverwolf]

DOES it? No. CAN it? Absolutely.

The way to keep it from doing so is, IMO, to maintain logical reasoning and to use that as best as possible, and to always realize that faith is not certainty, and that doubt is a natural part of it. If there's no doubt, there's certainty, and therefore no faith, after all. ^_^

 

[outhouse]

DOES it? No. CAN it? Absolutely.

im glad its just your opinion.

your intellegent, you dont see people blinded by faith??

did faith not halt Newtons work at one point????

have you ever seen a YEC???? YEC is direct evidence of faith blinding ones ability to reason.

I find your statement above wrong

 

[blackout]

If you do faith correctly and end up with a different result, I'd like to hear all about it. Thinking that faith doesn't lead to this outcome is like saying eating food won't get you less hungry.

Yes it has. Thought I'd get back into the discussion a little.

Once hunger has been "satisfied",
"eating food" will no longer make you "less hungry".

Anyway, I'm curious,
perhaps I missed it,
what is this "outcome" of which you speak?

 

[blackout]

Oh, maybe you meant that this, was the "outcome"...

You get the courage by giving it to yourself. As far as what happens automatically, that is very difficult to describe. The effects of what happens, however are quite easy. You will be more objective, and able to reason more clearly, as you will see your own biases. And that's just a start.

How, specifically, that happens to you depends on you. That said, the result is very much the same for everyone.

And what comes after the start?


My thoughts?
It's funny how the results (of letting go) can be exactly the same,
and yet completely different....(for different people),
all at the same time....

 

[Madhuri]

im glad its just your opinion.

your intellegent, you dont see people blinded by faith??

did faith not halt Newtons work at one point????

have you ever seen a YEC???? YEC is direct evidence of faith blinding ones ability to reason.

I find your statement above wrong

None of your points contradicted Riverwolf's statement.

 

[Madhuri]

Choosing not to apply reason to something doesn't necessarily mean one cannot apply reason - it simply means they are not in that case.

I agree with this.

 

[Madhuri]

I believe faith distorts a person's sense of reality. People of faith are unable to use their reason to full effect. We see this occuring all the time. I myself experienced it when I had faith. My own journey as a Christian became more and more troubled towards the end, as I tried to use my reason to understand the countless theological, ethical, scientific and philosophical problems that my religion presented. Unfortunately, change does not come easy. Especially when there is the threat of eternal torture. Even thinking about the various problems Christianity presents seemed dangerous to me, as I thought I might be angering god. Religions that promote the concept of eternal torture are evil. Their God is a cruel psychopath. I hope these people will realize that their master is an evil tormenter, and that they have alligned themselves with the side of darkness and become blind followers of an evil being they imagine exists.

When I took my religion completely literally, when I did not believe in evolution etc. I honestly do not see it as my inability to use reason. In fact, I was using reason. My problem, is that my amount of knowledge at the time limited myself to certain conclusion.

Also, using Reason and have a clear understanding of Reality do not go hand in hand. So to say that faith distorts a person's view of reality is wrong. It may do, but it may not do. A person with very good reasoning ability could also have an equally skewered view of reality.

 

[waitasec]

As I said, if you do this correctly, it doesn't matter what you call it, you get the same result.

indeed you did. and indeed it's true.

 

[outhouse]

None of your points contradicted Riverwolf's statement.

that your opinion

and it may not apply to riverwolk but it does apply to people in this forum daily

 

[waitasec]

As I said, if you do this correctly, it doesn't matter what you call it, you get the same result.

indeed you did. and indeed it's true.

i will also add...there is no one correct way.

 

[Penumbra]

Would anyone say the great theologians of the Christian Church could not reason? If so, which have you studied and found wanting?

I wouldn't say he counts as a "great theologian", but I studied Blaise Pascal for a college course rather extensively and found his reasoning wanting.

He was a brilliant scientist and mathematician, but a terrible philosopher and theologian.

 

[Vendetta]

First off define faith.....faith can be understood in a couple ways.....I voted no because we use faith everyday. By religious faith I don't see.how this distorts reality. There are plenty.physicist who can perform their duties as scholars and still maintain their spiritual faith

 

[waitasec]

First off define faith.....faith can be understood in a couple ways.....I voted no because we use faith everyday. By religious faith I don't see.how this distorts reality. There are plenty.physicist who can perform their duties as scholars and still maintain their spiritual faith

faith is a convenient that way...
it's like an endless supply of water which finds any hole...

faith, the assurance of hope of things unseen. which ultimately blinds us to reality. it's as if we cannot accept what we see.

you mention physicists...but what stops them from moving forward is faith.
perhaps you've seen this... perhaps not.

[youtube]0vrpPPV_yPY[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vrpPPV_yPY