Does God Answer Prayers?

[lunamoth]

Of course not, but if you really trust him, then why not trust him about the details of your life? "I want this" isn't trust; it's the opposite of trust. It implies that God won't really take care of your needs (or maybe desires would be a better word) unless you point them out.

I'm not just saying this to pick at believers; it's what I thought when I was a believer, too. I've been to Evangelical and Pentecostal churches where prayers were very specific (and sometimes pretty gossipy):

Lord, please help Bob find a job.
Jesus, we ask that you deliver Lisa from her addiction to alcohol.
Father, deliver Allen from his same-sex attraction.
Jesus, please help Jeff and Karen sell their house.
​

It's a marked contrast to the daily prayers appointed for Orthodox Christians, which are more like this:

Save, O Lord, and have mercy on my parents, brothers and sisters, and my kindred according to the flesh, and all our neighbors, and grant them your earthly and spiritual good things.

Save, O Lord, and have mercy on the aged and the young, the poor and the orphans and widows, and those in sickness and sorrow, misfortune and tribulation, those in difficult circumstances and in captivity, in prisons and dungeons, and especially those of your servants who are persecuted for your sake and the Orthodox Faith by godless peoples, apostates, and heretics. Remember them, visit, strengthen, comfort, and by your power quickly grant them relief, freedom, and deliverance.

Save, O Lord, and have mercy on them that hate and wrong me, and make temptation for me, and let them not perish because of me, a sinner.
​

It seems to me that in the latter case you're leaving the details to God. You're offering up prayers for others, and maybe helping to awaken compassion in yourself by so doing, but you're not trying to dictate to God what he should do, or expecting any specific outcome. In the former case, you're presenting God with a "to do" list, hoping that your requests will find favor with him. I think that demonstrates something more like petulance than trust.

I largely agree with you MB on approach to prayer, and the Episcopal manner of prayer, and the Baha'i manner too, are like the Orthodox approach above, both in our communal and individual worship.

But it is also appropriate, I think, to 'ask' God for help with things in prayer. Not so much like a petulant child asking for a new bike, but in the sense of sharing our hopes and burdens with God, and in that letting God help us bear things that are difficult. How that help comes, in the granting of courage or peace of mind, or in the actual performing of a miracle, is a Mystery, IMO. Nevertheless, we trust it.

 

[Beaudreaux]

I largely agree with you MB on approach to prayer, and the Episcopal manner of prayer, and the Baha'i manner too, are like the Orthodox approach above, both in our communal and individual worship.

But it is also appropriate, I think, to 'ask' God for help with things in prayer. Not so much like a petulant child asking for a new bike, but in the sense of sharing our hopes and burdens with God, and in that letting God help us bear things that are difficult. How that help comes, in the granting of courage or peace of mind, or in the actual performing of a miracle, is a Mystery, IMO. Nevertheless, we trust it.

Hey. I don't want this discussion to turn into too much of a straw man. The OP is not about praying for new bikes or selfish things like a "petulant child." It is about praying for selfless, good things like for an acquaintance to be healed of disease. Why wouldn't God grant such a request?

 

[lunamoth]

Hey. I don't want this discussion to turn into too much of a straw man. The OP is not about praying for new bikes or selfish things like a "petulant child." It is about praying for selfless, good things like for an acquaintance to be healed of disease. Why wouldn't God grant such a request?

By what means have you understood God to perform miraculous acts?

 

[Autodidact]

i'd disagree. there are many things He gives without our asking. but there are others (i'm narrating this from personal experience here) that He gives once we ask.

Yes, of course there are. It turns out that He does this at the exact same rate as if you hadn't asked. God grants prayer requests at the precise rate that He would if He did not exist. Coincidence?

often it's a case of His freely giving without our asking or acknowledging Him- we have food in the fridge, enough money for rent, and gas in the car. other times we're brought to a point where we're unable to fix it ourselves, we remember Him, as Him, and He gives.

Or not, as the case may be. Surely you agree that there are people, prayerful people, who do not have food in the friedge, enough money for rent, and gas in the car? There are prayerful people who aren't going to live through this day.

both cases happen, and both reflect His hand at work in our lives.

And what does it reflect when it doesn't happen?

and yes, sometimes His non-answer is as clear (or clearer) an indication of His being at work in our lives than an answered prayer. it brings our attention back to Him as the provider, Father, and ultimate focus of our lives, in Christ. His withholding can bring us to a point where we take Him for granted less, reflect on what we *do* have to thank Him for, and prayerfully consider for what reason our request is being withheld. it brings us back to Him, for His own sake, and not simply as a wish-granter or automated gift dispenser.

This is a strictly factual question. First we'll figure out what's going on, and then draw conclusions from that. I hope you agree that's always the better way to proceed? What's going on is this: God grants your prayers at exactly the same way as random chance. This has been demonstrated again and again. If you pray to God for someone to recover from illness, and I pray to my couch, we'll have exactly equal chances of the person prayed for recovering. Those are the facts.

Now that we know the facts, what do you conclude from that?

it can be difficult, but useful, and ultimately a good thing.

It's a good thing that God grants prayers exactly as if He did not exist? Why?

 

[Beaudreaux]

By what means have you understood God to perform miraculous acts?

I have experienced no such miraculous acts, though the Bible mentions them liberally and Jesus performed them as signs that he was the son of God. If God is all powerful, then certainly healing the sick is within his capability. In Christian scripture, Jesus tells his followers to ask God for things in prayer and that God will provide those things. It seems to me that asking God to heal a sick person is a good and selfless request. I don't understand why God would not grant such a request, since He used to do it quite a bit. I'm not talking about comforting someone with a broken leg while they recover. I'm talking about the lame walking, the blind seeing and the deaf hearing.

 

[lunamoth]

I'm talking about the lame walking, the blind seeing and the deaf hearing.

Medicine has helped much of this kind of suffering and I think we will get better at it in the future.

 

[Autodidact]

Medicine has helped much of this kind of suffering and I think we will get better at it in the future.

Yes, because medicine, unlike prayer, is actually effective.

 

[lunamoth]

Yes, because medicine, unlike prayer, is actually effective.

Maybe medicine is advanced by prayer. I'm sure a lot of med students pray their way through exams!

But seriously, I think medical advances are related to prayer. You don't have to see it that way, but I do.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Medicine has helped much of this kind of suffering and I think we will get better at it in the future.

I agree. Are you saying that that is all God is willing to do? Even with advances in medicine, millions die in pain and without hope. Why wouldn't God answer a prayer to heal one of them?

 

[lunamoth]

I agree. Are you saying that that is all God is willing to do? Even with advances in medicine, millions die in pain and without hope. Why wouldn't God answer a prayer to heal one of them?

Do you feel called to do anything about it? Do you feel called to do anything to help make the world better?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Maybe medicine is advanced by prayer. I'm sure a lot of med students pray their way through exams!

But seriously, I think medical advances are related to prayer. You don't have to see it that way, but I do.

According to scripture, Jesus did not perform medical procedures on the people he healed. He laid his hands on them and they were cured.

But even if you are correct, what does that say about God? He COULD heal people but instead he leaves it to the slow march of medical progress? Why?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Do you feel called to do anything about it? Do you feel called to do anything to help make the world better?

Well, this is more than a bit off topic, but I dedicate my life to helping and supporting my family. I also contribute to several charities and try to be kind to all I meet.

But your question is a thinly veiled attempt to avoid addressing the issue. Why doesn't God heal those whom the faithful ask to be healed?

 

[lunamoth]

According to scripture, Jesus did not perform medical procedures on the people he healed. He laid his hands on them and they were cured.

And we are called to heal those we can as well. I do not know how Jesus healed. He healed the people he came in contact with out of compassion. We are called to do the same to whatever extent we can.

But even if you are correct, what does that say about God? He COULD heal people but instead he leaves it to the slow march of medical progress? Why?

Again, I can think of different reasons, but I don't really know. Can you think of any reasons other than the conclusion you appear to have reached?

 

[lunamoth]

Well, this is more than a bit off topic, but I dedicate my life to helping and supporting my family. I also contribute to several charities and try to be kind to all I meet.

Then from where I sit you are answering prayers.

But your question is a thinly veiled attempt to avoid addressing the issue. Why doesn't God heal those whom the faithful ask to be healed?

No, I'm not avoiding the issue. I don't know the answer to that and I forsee that any reasoning I may give will just lead us off on a tangent that can't be resolved to your satisfaction.

But, as Katzpur asked before, if you were God and it were up to you to do the healing, exactly where would you stop? Would you only heal to answer prayers?

 

[Beaudreaux]

And we are called to heal those we can as well. I do not know how Jesus healed. He healed the people he came in contact with out of compassion. We are called to do the same to whatever extent we can.

A point on which we violently agree. Less human suffering. More human happinesss.

Again, I can think of different reasons, but I don't really know. Can you think of any reasons other than the conclusion you appear to have reached?

Honestly, no. I was a fundamentalist Christian for many years and this subject was always a toughy for me. I, like many with which I dialogue, tried to rationalize it in many ways, but at the end of the day I could no longer ignore the fact God does not heal people through prayer. My conclusion, which I suspect you already know, is that there is no such God.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Then from where I sit you are answering prayers.

Oh, Lord help the people I'M assigned to. I have a hard time putting a band-aid on correctly.

No, I'm not avoiding the issue. I don't know the answer to that and I forsee that any reasoning I may give will just lead us off on a tangent that can't be resolved to your satisfaction.

But, as Katzpur asked before, if you were God and it were up to you to do the healing, exactly where would you stop? Would you only heal to answer prayers?

Well, I'll give you the same answer I gave Katzpur. God should have created this world without evil, suffering, sin or death. When I propose this, people are often incredulous. "How can God do that and still give us free will?" they ask, or in some other way indicate that such a paradise would be impossible. But then I point out that if they believe in heaven then they already believe that God has created a world without evil, suffering, sin or death. If he can do it there, why didn't he do it here?

 

[lunamoth]

Oh, Lord help the people I'M assigned to. I have a hard time putting a band-aid on correctly.

Lol! you're doing fine.

Well, I'll give you the same answer I gave Katzpur. God should have created this world without evil, suffering, sin or death. When I propose this, people are often incredulous. "How can God do that and still give us free will?" they ask, or in some other way indicate that such a paradise would be impossible. But then I point out that if they believe in heaven then they already believe that God has created a world without evil, suffering, sin or death. If he can do it there, why didn't he do it here?

Well, I don't really know much of anything about heaven, except that I understand it to be a new/different kind of closeness to God. Maybe in heaven our will is naturally aligned with God's will, which is for good? But that does not seem like free will to me.

It seems to me that if we are to have free will then evil and suffering are going to be a possible outcome. Perhaps one can think of it as a matter of gradation, exactly how much suffering should God allow? Nothing more than a skinned knee? Then where's the cut off? You end up back perfectly aligned with God's will and no longer making any choices (which as you can see from other conversations is exactly the position others validly hold). Maybe there's another way for God's will to be achieved in the long run, even if our free will interfers in the short run. Just a thought. Maybe rather that a gradual cut off in healing, we have a gradual progress in healing over time?

Also, if I were God I would not want to just heal in answer to prayers. How fair would that be? I love everyone, right? So, I would want a process that allows all people to be healed, not just those prayed for.

But, I don't know.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Well, I don't really know much of anything about heaven, except that I understand it to be a new/different kind of closeness to God. Maybe in heaven our will is naturally aligned with God's will, which is for good? But that does not seem like free will to me.

I agree. Either there has to be evil in heaven or folks won't have free will.

It seems to me that if we are to have free will then evil and suffering are going to be a possible outcome. Perhaps one can think of it as a matter of gradation, exactly how much suffering should God allow? Nothing more than a skinned knee? Then where's the cut off? You end up back perfectly aligned with God's will and no longer making any choices (which as you can see from other conversations is exactly the position others validly hold).

Indeed, however I would direct you to another thread that touches on this topic. In it, I ask why God does not prevent natural disasters and diseases that cause devastating pain and suffering which has nothing to do with human free will.

Also, if I were God I would not want to just heal in answer to prayers. How fair would that be? I love everyone, right? So, I would want a process that allows all people to be healed, not just those prayed for.

But, I don't know.

Right! So why create a world where infants dies of AIDS and pediatric cancer wards are always busy. It's definitely a tough one to answer. It was one of the things that led me to atheism.

 

[lunamoth]

Indeed, however I would direct you to another thread that touches on this topic. In it, I ask why God does not prevent natural disasters and diseases that cause devastating pain and suffering which has nothing to do with human free will.

I saw parts of that thread. Again, I don't know the answer, but one speculation I like, along the lines of runlikethewind's posts, is that there is freedom in the creative process that is parallel to free will. And it's apparent to me that creation involves destruction if a changing process is used.

Right! So why create a world where infants dies of AIDS and pediatric cancer wards are always busy. It's definitely a tough one to answer. It was one of the things that led me to atheism.

My only response to that is that there is an inherent goodness in the quality of 'being' that makes the risk of suffering worth it. I also trust that nothing we do here, nothing that happens, is wasted, even if we can't perceive how it all fits together.

 

[fantome profane]

Hey. I don't want this discussion to turn into too much of a straw man. The OP is not about praying for new bikes or selfish things like a "petulant child." It is about praying for selfless, good things like for an acquaintance to be healed of disease. Why wouldn't God grant such a request?

But that is the problem I have with the concept of prayer. If you can conceive of a “God” able to cure people of deadly diseases, and if you also believe that this “God” is a benevolent “God” that wants to heal people, then why wouldn’t this “God” do this for people who are not prayed for, as well as for those who are?


To me there are only 3 possible scenarios where prayer for intervention might make sense.

1. “God” does not really want to heal people, but if we nag him enough we just might be able to guilt him into doing it anyway.
2. “God” is unable to heal people, but somehow when we pray for it we endow him with the power.
3. “God” doesn’t even know about these people who need healing until we tell him about them.

But obviously these three possibilities would be distasteful (to say the least) for most traditional theists. And I really can’t think of any other possibilities where it makes sense.