Does God exist? (YmirGF 'perspective of a single person' vs 'Islam: World Major religion')

[summia]

I am NOT questioning that you believe in your god or in your religion. Everybody are entitled to their belief.

I am questioning that you can "prove" God's existence.

Which is why I have replied to you, wanting to know what evidences that you have to prove your claim. Also these 2 terms - "believing" and "proving" - are 2 different things.

.

How can "believe" to be different then "Proof"
Proofs means "The evidences that establish the Truth"
And belief means "Trust/confidence"

belief is "God exists" and it is true and Trusted. for establish the truth needs evidences.
No NO can't separate them!
I'm putting proofs ahead!

As to my belief. I am agnostic.

I think that some teachings from various religions have some valid arguments, in regarding to teaching of love, compassion, tolerance and morals, because some of these are universal.

However, I am highly dubious....and even skeptical...in regarding to creation, miracles, angelic visitations and the existence of a divine being (or "beings" in the case of polytheistic religions).

I believe in the natural world, ie. I believe in NATURE. I understand that science is attempt by man to understand the natural (and of course, artifical) world. They may not get it right every time, but at least they have developed a method to observe and test the evidence in order to prove or disprove their theories.

You must understand that science is not just about proving theories. It is also about disproving theories.

I'm dubious/skeptical about the supernaturals, like spirits and miracles, because these can never be proven.

.

Well to know about yours!

 

[~Amin~]

Yeah1 really i wish to debate you, because Mary think so. but i think you are not Satan...
lol......
yet Satan is in you....
If this Satan will leave you then you will be a pure and respectful person! Thats my words!

Thanx for honor!

That's nice!


Its rather stupitness to match references with a single personal views!
Well, I'm on it!


I have not seen God, Although none seen Him!
When we believe in God/His existence, then surly it means we have evidences in our common sense!
before start, I wish to ask just a little wonder in you Sir Paul (YmirGF)!

Do you believe in existence of God without proofs/evidences?

peace
If a person closes his eyes and trys to dinie the existence of the sun he only makes darkness for himself,in the same way if you can reject the clear evidences around you it is for you to prove God doesnt exist because logic and reason our personal relationship with God can not be put a side by closing your eyes look forward to your reply. with my compassion and care for you and indeed im a muslim.

 

[~Amin~]

peace
If a person closes his eyes and trys to dinie the existence of the sun he only makes darkness for himself,in the same way if you can reject the clear evidences around you it is for you to prove God doesnt exist because logic and reason our personal relationship with God can not be put a side by closing your eyes look forward to your reply. with my compassion and care for you and indeed im a muslim.

~amin~

 

[summia]

peace
If a person closes his eyes and trys to dinie the existence of the sun he only makes darkness for himself,in the same way if you can reject the clear evidences around you it is for you to prove God doesnt exist because logic and reason our personal relationship with God can not be put a side by closing your eyes look forward to your reply. with my compassion and care for you and indeed im a muslim.

I'm Muslim and Alhamdolillah I believe in Allah Almighty. How I believe because I have seen His signs and evidences, even in my creation (in human) there is an evidence of existence of God.
But does it touch to mind that a person is believing in God without evidences and sign? if not then you will meet many of them here!

Go ahead!

 

[summia]

God exists:
signs from Holy Quran:

وَكَأَيِّن مِّن آيَةٍ فِي ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلأَرْضِ يَمُرُّونَ عَلَيْهَا وَهُمْ عَنْهَا مُعْرِضُونَ

“ And how many a signs in the heavens and the earth which they pass by, yet they turn aside from it. And most of them do not believe in Allah without associating others with Him.” (12:105)


وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ أَنْ خَلَقَكُمْ مِّن تُرَابٍ ثُمَّ إِذَآ أَنتُمْ بَشَرٌ تَنتَشِرُونَ

“ Among His signs is this, that He created you from dust; and then, behold, you are men scattered (far and wide)!” (30:20)

Explanation Ibn Abaas:
(is this: He created you of dust) He created you of Adam and Adam is from dust, and you are his progeny تُرَابٍ

وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ أَنْ خَلَقَ لَكُم مِّنْ أَنفُسِكُمْ أَزْوَاجاً لِّتَسْكُنُوۤاْ إِلَيْهَا وَجَعَلَ بَيْنَكُم مَّوَدَّةً وَرَحْمَةً إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لآيَاتٍ لِّقَوْمٍ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ

“ And among His sign is this, that He created for you mates (wives & husbands and relatives) from among yourselves, that you may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are signs for those who reflect.” (30:21)

وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ خَلْقُ ٱلسَّمَٰوَٰتِ وَٱلأَرْضِ وَٱخْتِلاَفُ أَلْسِنَتِكُمْ وَأَلْوَانِكُمْ إِنَّ فِي ذٰلِكَ لآيَاتٍ لِّلْعَالَمِينَ

“ And among His signs is the creation of heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and you colors: verily in that are signs for the learned people.” (30:22)

وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ مَنَامُكُم بِٱلَّيلِ وَٱلنَّهَارِ وَٱبْتِغَآؤُكُمْ مِّن فَضْلِهِ إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لآيَاتٍ لِّقَوْمٍ يَسْمَعُونَ

“ And among His signs is the sleep that you take by night and day, and the quest that you make for livelihood out of His Bounty: verily in that are signs for those who hearken.” (30:23)

وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ يُرِيكُمُ ٱلْبَرْقَ خَوْفاً وَطَمَعاً وَيُنَزِّلُ مِنَ ٱلسَّمَآءِ مَآءً فَيُحْيِي بِهِ ٱلأَرْضَ بَعْدَ مَوْتِهَا إِنَّ فِي ذَلِكَ لآيَاتٍ لِّقَوْمٍ يَعْقِلُونَ

“ And among His signs, He shows you the lighting, by way both of fear and hope, and He sends down rain from the sky and with it gives life to the earth after it is dead: verily in that are signs for those who are wise.” (30:24)

وَمِنْ آيَاتِهِ أَن تَقُومَ ٱلسَّمَآءُ وَٱلأَرْضُ بِأَمْرِهِ ثُمَّ إِذَا دَعَاكُمْ دَعْوَةً مِّنَ ٱلأَرْضِ إِذَآ أَنتُمْ تَخْرُجُونَ

“ And among His signs is this, that heaven and earth stand by His command: then when He calls you, by a single call, from the earth, behold, you (straightway) come forth.” (30:25)

 

[lilithu]

But still there are some people who believe that God exists but no one can prove that God has exists!

There are lots of people who believe that God exists but that no one can prove that God exists. Myself included.

And once again I wonder, why are we so focused on proving God's existence rather than exploring one's relationship with God. If I did not have a relationship with God I would not care whether God existed or not.

 

[gnostic]

If I did not have a relationship with God I would not care whether God existed or not.

At this moment, I don't really care.

 

[summia]

There are lots of people who believe that God exists but that no one can prove that God exists. Myself included.

In fact when this thread was posted the main topic was "No one have ever proved God espacially in Islam God is not proved"
At this reply i posted the Thread. I'm not in sake of proving God, really it's non sense. But at least who challenged me, how can i stay quite. Isn't it?

we have to know what really the proving God means.
If some one take it to see physically then really can't be proved. But if someone believe (as I) that we can prove God by showing His signs. Is there any wrong in it then?

And once again I wonder, why are we so focused on proving God's existence rather than exploring one's relationship with God. If I did not have a relationship with God I would not care whether God existed or not.

Yeah! your spirit is superior lilithu!
and i respect your spirit, Quran is the scripture of relations between God and Man. But this thread only dicussing about "Does God exists?" and i have also quoted pauls statements at OP. He made the point that no one can prove God exists. Then my common sense says, "if no one can prove any evidences then why believe in God?"

When we say I can prove God, it does means that I will show you the leg or hands of God to prove. It really insensible.
if someone can prove God it means he/she knows about evidences/signs. coz we can reach to the fact while we have evidences then we put our trust in it.

 

[lilithu]

In fact when this thread was posted the main topic was "No one have ever proved God espacially in Islam God is not proved"
At this reply i posted the Thread. I'm not in sake of proving God, really it's non sense. But at least who challenged me, how can i stay quite. Isn't it?
.....
But this thread only dicussing about "Does God exists?" and i have also quoted pauls statements at OP.

Understood. I will bow out. :namaste


And, not that it matters why my opinion of the Qur'an is, but I agree with you - it is about the relationship between God and humanity.

 

[summia]

Understood. I will bow out. :namaste


And, not that it matters why my opinion of the Qur'an is, but I agree with you - it is about the relationship between God and humanity.

Something well, I have seen after a long here on this forum....

 

[Wandered Off]

You cannot prove the existence of God because God does not want His existance to be proved. God wants everyone to come to Him on their own free will and by faith. If there were proof of God's existence, then of course everyone is going to follow God.

While I can definitely agree with you that we can't prove or disprove God's existence, I disagree with the thinking that proof would interfere with free will. It seems to me that proof would in fact enhance free will because we would have a better idea of what our choices and their consequences would be. It would be an informed consent.

If I meet you in person, that's as close as I can get to proof of your existence. That in no way impacts my free will decision of whether to be your friend or follow your ways.

The only "free will" that could be impacted by proof is the "will" to believe or not, but mere belief is not what God is supposedly seeking.

Not only that, but if people follow God just because God exists, wouldn't God be aware of and able to judge their motives anyway? Presumably, proof wouldn't interfere with that either.

A lack of information never enhances free will.

 

[~Amin~]

While I can definitely agree with you that we can't prove or disprove God's existence, I disagree with the thinking that proof would interfere with free will. It seems to me that proof would in fact enhance free will because we would have a better idea of what our choices and their consequences would be. It would be an informed consent.
Peace
the whole reaon why were on the earth is to believe in God the unseen
we cant see Him with our phisical eyes but we see him with our heart,
NO VISION CAN GRASP HIM BUT HE GRASPS ALL VISION.QURAN 6:103.

 

[camanintx]

the whole reaon why were on the earth is to believe in God the unseen
we cant see Him with our phisical eyes but we see him with our heart,
NO VISION CAN GRASP HIM BUT HE GRASPS ALL VISION.QURAN 6:103.

And theists say non-believers lead a meaningless life! How insecure must a god be to make a whole universe just so something can worship it.

 

[~Amin~]

How insecure must a god be to make a whole universe just so something can worship it.

Because humans like my self and your self are so small we think the universe is
so big, if an ant was to ponder the greatness of the earth it could not do so ,like manner in reality the earth and planets and the universe are really a speck .
This was a great point you made in short know that the cosmos is finite and
only God is infinite.

 

[summia]

Because humans like my self and your self are so small we think the universe is
so big, if an ant was to ponder the greatness of the earth it could not do so ,like manner in reality the earth and planets and the universe are really a speck .
This was a great point you made in short know that the cosmos is finite and
only God is infinite.

:yes: It is there is no doubt!
And I would like to add...

Allah/God ALmighty dodn't need to secure, WE The Mini Creature need to secure ourselves!

 

[~Amin~]

We are not discussing Satan here! and you promised me to stay with the topic of discussion!

Isnt that what he alway does?..

 

[Wandered Off]

the whole reaon why were on the earth is to believe in God the unseen

I can see how proof would interfere with your notion of our "whole reason", but TSSYF's contention was that it would interfere with free will, and I do not see how that could be true.

 

[~Amin~]

I can see how proof would interfere with your notion of our "whole reason", but TSSYF's contention was that it would interfere with free will, and I do not see how that could be true.

PEACE
How could we have a freewill if we could
all see God ,because then every one would
believe and submit dont you see this is the difference
between the believers and non believers,ie(the ones who cant see Him).
This is why they denie His existence.

 

[gnostic]

How could we have a freewill if we could
all see God ,because then every one would
believe and submit dont you see this is the difference
between the believers and non believers,ie(the ones who cant see Him).
This is why they denie His existence.

I certainly can't worship something that doesn't exist. FAITH is rubbish to me, if I don't have evidence or proof to back it up. It is that simple.

I would prefer to know if he really exist, and not just from so-called holy books of some supposed "prophets" or a delusion. I don't trust writing that have little reality in the real.

Proving that god exist, is only the first step for the non-believers.

Even if god does exist, I don't and won't immediately worship him or her, until I find out what he or she wants. If the deity turned out to be tyrant, then I can still choose not to worship, no matter if he is real, and no matter what is the punishment for not accepting this god.

Would you worship a real god, even though he turns out to be a cruel, evil, bloodthirsty tyrant?

 

[roli]

Do you believe in existence of God without proofs/evidences?[/quote

You must be talking about other gods ,not the God of creation , for it is his creation that proves his existence ,primarily.

Then when one comes to him and calls on his name ,he reveals himself personally and experientially to the one who comes and calls on him.

The world says seeing is believing ,Jesus says believe and you will see.

That is my expereince and countless others who have truly come to God with abroken and humble spirit.

For God resists the proud and can not by his very nature reveal himself to mankind who is wise in his own eyes marrogant and proud.
It is typically when a man of such stature is backed up against a wall and a hard place in life ,either through tradgedy ,suffering or whatever, that his arrogance and pride diminish to a point where he will call out for help to a God he knows already deep within him.

It's not that man can't know God of the bible and creation it is that they don't want to know him.
Jesus is a carnal crasher ,in that his very nature in a believer can not allow the believer to go on living in sin and sensual pleasure and carnal gradification, and those who come to him are only led by his spirit ,at which point they count the costs and regard eternal life more important than temporal pleasure