He also does not necessarily not exist.
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Does God Exist?
- Thread starter Dan4reason
- Start date
He also does not necessarily not exist.
GRAAARRRRGGGHHH!
I told you so!But more importantly, there is no possible evidence for that view, other than your own stubbornness. Scientific literature will tell you that man evolves, has only existed as a species for 100k years or so, and Neanderthalis died before any writer could have possibly known about them. Religious literature will tell you that Neanderthalis didn't exist at all. Mixing the two is simply dishonesty.
(If I have changed my signature, this post won't make sense. It says, ATM, " If you try to tell me that this is the best of all possible worlds, or something equally stupid, I'll get Jake to shout at you.")
There is no book that will say Neanderthalis ever existed:no:
30,000 years ago could have started some oral history. 40,000 years ago people went to Australia to build boats and do many things communication was necessary. I even said oral history in an earlier post if you had paid attention. Oral history passed down and recorded thousands of years later (25+ thousand years).
The difference is that this is not my argument, I have never made an argument anything like this. In fact in all my time on this board I dont think I have ever made any argument concerning the non-existence of God. If you read my post you will clearly see where I say that I have no interest in debating whether or not God exists. Obviously I am not claiming, Since we have some knowledge, God does not exist.
Let me say officially here (as I think I have said before) the knowledge we have gained from science does not in any way indicate the non-existence of God. Nor do I think any future knowledge we will gain from science will indicate the non-existence of God.
But to be fair let me acknowledge that some atheists have made the argument that scientific understanding does indicate that God does not exist. These atheists are idiots.
Still this is no excuse for your use of the argument from ignorance or god of the gaps. Your response here is basically saying that well you do it too which is also known as the tu quoque fallacy (you are just full of logical fallacies today but I hope you learn from it). The fact that your opponent may or may not make a similar logical error does not in anyway redeem your logical errors.
McBell
Unbound
fantôme profane;2289525 said:
I will take your post for what it is and I will also say that I am so used to the attack tactics that I took you post to mean something that you did not intend.
As far as logic goes that can be thrown out the window. I know what I see and feel. The logic of some of us is not logical to someone who does not see the same things we do. If one does not know the wonders of God one can not fathom His reality.
And again nothing. You have not led me to proof only the air from your lungs.
At your own peril.
But just let me say that if you dont intend to use logic it would be much better not to make any argument, rather that making illogical arguments.
fantôme profane;2289556 said:
What caused the Big Bang? We had a point that contained everything and then went boom. No reason unless there was something here before that was being drawn in and it reached critical mass. I say God did it. I also know that the true age of what we call the universe is a good guess and I am sure it is close but; with expansion and the fact that when expansion and movement are combined time becomes a little harder to tell we could be wrong.
outhouse
Atheistically
your someone who doesnt even have a grasp at a simple biological prosccess called evolution LET ALONE give advise on physics. You have no credibility in my opinion.
you need to understand there is no debate on evolution.
there was no world wide flood
the sun doesnt revolve around the earth
the earth was not created with man and animals in 6 days
The bible is not a accurate history book or a science book.
You want to believe in god thats fine, I think he is nothing more then imagination. Ever since homo sapiens sat around a campfire 200,000 years ago I garantee you they had a spirit or many spirits.
Did you know theres not a primitive tribe anywhere on the planet that does not have a spirit or god? ???? the further they are away from society the more odball their beliefs are and the more superstitious they are.
You have no credibility in my opinion. you need to understand there is no debate on evolution.
there was no world wide flood
the sun doesnt revolve around the earth
the earth was not created with man and animals in 6 days
The bible is not a accurate history book or a science book.
You want to believe in god thats fine, I think he is nothing more then imagination. Ever since homo sapiens sat around a campfire 200,000 years ago I garantee you they had a spirit or many spirits.
Did you know theres not a primitive tribe anywhere on the planet that does not have a spirit or god? ???? the further they are away from society the more odball their beliefs are and the more superstitious they are.
outhouse
Atheistically
funny that there is no other history from beyond a few hundred years that was passed down that way. In a stretch i would give you a thousand.
Your mistaken admit it. When they talked about breeding or whatever you read it was talking about another race NOT a species.
Please come back to reality
Is that a rhetorical question or are you really interested in knowing what caused the big bang? If you are really interested inknowing what caused the big bang I recommend Brian Greene’s “Fabric of the Cosmos”. Fantastic book.
If it is rhetoric I am not interested.
Dan4reason
Facts not Faith
You are right. We just have no reason for saying that God does, no reason for saying that he doesn't. Just like with fairies.
McBell
Unbound
One cannot lead you to what you refuse to see.
McBell
Unbound
Of course you will see god doing it.
You are so desperate to shove god in somewhere that you shove him into every nook, cranny, gap, hole, pin prick, and microscopic lesion you can find.
outhouse
Atheistically
your someone who doesnt even have a grasp at a simple biological prosccess called evolution LET ALONE give advise on physics.
you need to understand there is no debate on evolution.
there was no world wide flood
the sun doesnt revolve around the earth
the earth was not created with man and animals in 6 days
The bible is not a accurate history book or a science book.
You want to believe in god thats fine, I think he is nothing more then imagination. Ever since homo sapiens sat around a campfire 200,000 years ago I garantee you they had a spirit or many spirits.
Did you know theres not a primitive tribe anywhere on the planet that does not have a spirit or god? ???? the further they are away from society the more odball their beliefs are and the more superstitious they are.
All of this and you can talk trash and prove nothing. Lame.
Did I say world wide flood? Regional over the earth that was inhabited which in the Hebrew it says earth and that earth did not mean globe. You say I know nothing yet all you have done is state how much I do not know while providing nothing. Why don't you get real. Put up or shut up. I will be waiting and may respond if I have time.
i'm really sort of a Deist i believe it's likely that there is at least one God but see no evidence of it or that God messes with the universe at all. but if God were to reveal himself to humanity now would have been a much more opportune time seeings as how we are so connected and more educated,bronze age mesopotamia probably wouldn't be my first choice.
TheKnight
Guardian of Life
I absolutely hate to do this. But I know that I am unable to adequately portray the record.
Thus I direct you to this link: Living Up To The Truth
It is a document written by Rabbi Dr. Dovid Gottlieb. He is a Ph.D in Mathematical Logic and taught at John Hopkins University and now teaches at Ohr Sameach University in Jerusalem.
A lot of his work has contributed to my belief in Judaism and my argument that such belief is, while not 100% bullet-proof, reasonable. He also responds to counter-arguments and has a few of the counter-arguments (and his responses) post on his website.
Because historically speaking, other nations with similar traits under the same conditions do not survive as the Jews have.
History is replete with movements of Jews that had broken off or assimilated and later disappeared. I am not concerned with those who throw off Judaism and then, through the years, become indistinguishable from the society into which they assimilated.
Rather I am concerned with those who have kept the traditions and practiced the faith consistently for centuries under conditions that should have brought them to their destruction. I see as the miracle the fact that this group, who have believed and maintained their traditions, has survived under conditions where they should not have (IE systematic targeting of this group specifically by nations much bigger and with more influence than they).
The Orthodox have survived for quite some time under difficult circumstances (longer than any other movement of Jews). By your own admission this is due to their intelligence. Well, they claim that it was due to God and their faith in their religion. If you agree that they have some sort of intelligence which contributes to their survival, and they (by their intelligence) say that it was the result of God's direction, then it isn't unreasonable to also believe in their God.
And yet this still doesn't completely respond to my point. I am not arguing that Judaism is valid because of its benefits. I am arguing that if you're right about God's non-existence, then there are zero consequences to me.
Yes, perhaps I will have spent my life believing in something which is not true. However, I will have contributed to those humanistic principles which are valued (freedom, liberty, protecting the defenseless, charity), contributed to a society (statistically, Orthodox communities feature far lower rates of rapes, murder, robberies, addictions to drugs, alcohol, and sex, lower teen pregnancy rates, higher graduation rates in their schools, and higher percentage of successful college graduates***), and be left relatively satisfied.
Not to mention that if you are right about there being no God, then by your own measure of reality (which I presume is science) we really don't know everything about the world in which we live. We know a lot, but not nearly everything.
***Orthodox Jewish communities are not the only societies that feature these things. Amish societies, Ultra-Christian societies, many Mid-Western societies, and Mormon societies also feature the same benefits.
The ultimate point is that for me Judaism is a major driving force in my desire to do good in this world. No, such a desire would not disappear if Judaism were false or if I stopped believing in it. However, I do think that all factors considered, it is not unreasonable to believe in Judaism, which is more than I can say for Christianity (which is the religion I was raised in).
The reasons for believing in it are enough to warrant reasonable belief, and the reasons for not believing in it--the possibility that it is false and the potential violence it can spur--are either not substantiated to the point of disbelief, or are not unique to Judaism alone.
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outhouse
Atheistically
like many christians you pick and choose scripture to meet your needs, lucky i know the bible
does the bible not say the highest mountain was covered by 20 feet???
does the bible not say its a worldwide flood to kill all mankind and animals to?
You keep sidetracking because you cannot stand up for ancient mans mistakes in the so called "gods words"
there was no world wide flood
the sun doesnt revolve around the earth
the earth was not created with man and animals in 6 days
The bible is not a accurate history book or a science book.
H776
ארץ
'erets
eh'-rets
From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): - X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world.
Above is what was destroyed. Most likely a partition of lane and that did happen.
How long did it take for the earth to be created?
I am curious where does it say the sun revolves around the earth? I have heard it is in there.
Oh and you still present nothing.
ארץ
'erets
eh'-rets
From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): - X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world.
Above is what was destroyed. Most likely a partition of lane and that did happen.
How long did it take for the earth to be created?
I am curious where does it say the sun revolves around the earth? I have heard it is in there.
Oh and you still present nothing.