Does God forgive soldiers?

[kai]

the nazi's were only doing their job too... when the commanders were on trial for war crimes they could not use the excuse that they were only following orders.

High command still has "command responsibility"

 

[kai]

Sorry, I don't get you.

whats the point of the thread?

 

[kai]

I don't know about the nazis, but recently an Iraq war veteran gave an interview where he said he was forced by his superiors to torture prisoners, even children, for information. He said even though he found it hard to do it, he had to do it because he was afraid of disobeying orders.

Thats not a justifiable excuse in any court. He is responsible for what he does if the order is manifestly illegal. simple as.

 

[Chisti]

Thats not a justifiable excuse in any court. He is responsible for what he does if the order is manifestly illegal. simple as.

Order isn't illegal to the guy who gave it, since he might argue that tough decisions must be made while interrogating prisoners.

 

[kai]

Order isn't illegal to the guy who gave it, since he might argue that tough decisions must be made while interrogating prisoners.

lets get this straight everybody knows what's legal and what's not when it comes to the treatment prisoners its spelt out to you, there's no room for misconceptions. any one deviating from legal to illegal knows full well what they are doing.

 

[Valjean]

What does legality have to do with anything, Chisti? Immoral and 'unforgivable' things are often legal, and when did expedience justify immoral acts? This is the old end justifies means argument.

 

[kai]

what this is, is an attempt to portray Soldiers as murderers. i dont see any other reasoning behind:

Does God forgive soldiers? They are simply doing their job in order to protect us.

 

[Pegg]

I don't know about the nazis, but recently an Iraq war veteran gave an interview where he said he was forced by his superiors to torture prisoners, even children, for information. He said even though he found it hard to do it, he had to do it because he was afraid of disobeying orders.

if every soldier disobeyed such orders the world would be a much better place.

without soldiers there would be no war, so every person who takes up a position as a soldier must bare the responsibility for the propagation of war

 

[Mellonhead]

if every soldier disobeyed such orders the world would be a much better place.

without soldiers there would be no war, so every person who takes up a position as a soldier must bare the responsibility for the propagation of war

I agree with this, and I am an Atheist.

Just throwing that out there to help dispel the notion that religion is needed for morality.

But it goes for both sides, we need soldiers to fight on our side the ones on the other side who follow the order to fight.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I do not think it matters what we think.
Jesus seemed to have little to say about soldiers and war.
I suspect that the normal standards of morality apply equally to soldiers, as to every one else.

 

[Pegg]

I agree with this, and I am an Atheist.

Just throwing that out there to help dispel the notion that religion is needed for morality.

But it goes for both sides, we need soldiers to fight on our side the ones on the other side who follow the order to fight.

What! you mean athiests have morals???

Im shocked

Its interesting to me that the bible touches on the subject of people without God still obeying Gods laws, but im sure you already know that.

 

[Mellonhead]

I do not think it matters what we think.
Jesus seemed to have little to say about soldiers and war.
I suspect that the normal standards of morality apply equally to soldiers, as to every one else.

Nothing but implications upon implications it seems.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I do not think it matters what we think.
Jesus seemed to have little to say about soldiers and war.
I suspect that the normal standards of morality apply equally to soldiers, as to every one else.

I do not think any one is handing out "free from sin" cards to anyone.

 

[Mellonhead]

I do not think any one is handing out "free from sin" cards to anyone.

I claim I am free of sin, because I do not believe in sin.

Do I do wrong? Yes, but since usually no one but me knows it, it is my job to better my actions through my past mistakes.

 

[Pegg]

I do not think it matters what we think.
Jesus seemed to have little to say about soldiers and war.
I suspect that the normal standards of morality apply equally to soldiers, as to every one else.

well he did remind us of one little truth regarding soldiers

Matthew 26:52 Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.

 

[Mellonhead]

well he did remind us of one little truth regarding soldiers

Matthew 26:52 Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.

Well this isn't true at all.

There are many people that have fought (with swords) in a war and survived to live out the rest of their days peacefully.

Most of them? No, but some of them.

I could have told you that.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

well he did remind us of one little truth regarding soldiers

Matthew 26:52 Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.

That is true, however it is little different to saying, soldiers are soldiers and they die as soldiers. It gives no indication of its sinfulnesses, or punishment.

 

[Mellonhead]

That is true, however it is little different to saying, soldiers are soldiers and they die as soldiers. It gives no indication of its sinfulnesses, or punishment.

The bible seems to be a bit contradictive. Maybe we should just flip a coin, or use another book.

 

[Pegg]

Well this isn't true at all.

There are many people that have fought (with swords) in a war and survived to live out the rest of their days peacefully.

Most of them? No, but some of them.

I could have told you that.

im not sure if that was the point he was making but I think we can be pretty sure that violence generally begets violence

 

[Pegg]

That is true, however it is little different to saying, soldiers are soldiers and they die as soldiers. It gives no indication of its sinfulnesses, or punishment.

Genesis 9:5 And, besides that, YOUR blood of YOUR souls shall I ask back. From the hand of every living creature shall I ask it back; and from the hand of man, from the hand of each one who is his brother, shall I ask back the soul of man. 6 Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image he made man.

there is certainly good reason to beat our swords into plowshares.