VanCrackin
The Freshmaker
Hey. I'm a 17 year old agnostic. Lately I've been thinking a lot about God and the afterlife, because I recently found out my newlywed brother and his wife are athiest- a secret they have kept from the rest of the family for a while. I'm not religious at all, and I used to be more spiritual. The rest of my family is a scattering of ex Catholics, Christians, Mormons, ect. ect.
I regular a myspace forum with kids my age, and we talk alot about religion, politics, and of course, High School life. What bothers me the most about our religious talks is that the Christian kids often state that nonbelievers are automatically sent to Hell.
I do not mind the Christian religion at all, but this one idea really turns me off of it. And it seems like often I am treated as inferior by some Christians because I do not attend Church. Because of this, I rarely discuss and express my own spiritual beliefs with many of my friends, family, and especially my girlfriend's family, for fear of judgment. It seems like online in the forums is the only place I get express my spiritual ideas.
That, however, is not what this thread is about. Since I am new to the forum I figured I would give you some background information on myself. That information, however, is relevant to this topic:
Say that the Bible instead said that people would be saved based on their actions and not their faith.
How many people do you think would go to Church?
In addition, if the number of people going to Church dropped, would the crime rate go up? In my opinion, yes.
People go to Church, because it says to in the Bible. The people believe what the pastors tell them, which is to live a moral life, as depicted in the Bible. People, fearing the wrath of God, live moral lives.
It's a chain of events leading back to the classic "faith alone can save you." Without that passage, we all know that a good deal less people would go to Church. Less people would be God fearing. And therefore, more people would commit sin without considering the consequences.
Is it so hard to believe, therefore, that God would lie to us? That he would mislead us? Not to be malicious, but to instill a more stable religious base inside our community, therefore leading our race to a more prosperous future? After all, we are his greatest project, and if he is a loving God, he wants us to succeed.
And while some people believe that God would not lie to us, because God is a perfect being who does not commit sin, I remind that "sin" is a relative word that we can only judge based on our earthly experiences and the Bible. If God exists, he is on an astronomical plane of existence, where demons, angels, and where the balance of the Universe is constantly being tested. So do you think that God misleading us so that we may lead more moral lives is such a far fetched idea? Do you think that, cosmically speaking, it could even be considered a sin?
After all, God has been responsible for the deaths of millions, even in the Bible with Noah's Ark, God has been linked to death. Yet in the commandments, it says "Thou shalt not kill." This proves that if God exists, that he is such a superior being that he does not have to bend to the laws he has presented to govern us.
Certainly there are degrees of sin.
Lying to someone is not as bad as killing them.
Cursing is not as bad as cheating.
Therefore, if God is a logical being, then do you really think he would consider letting a reformed rapist/murderer into Heaven just because that rapist/murderer started reading the Bible and reformed? Yet, he would condemn a moral man, or even a MORE than moral man, straight to Hell because that man wasn't swayed by the Christian religion? Is murder less of a sin than ignorance?
How about those people born in parts of the world outside the reach of Christianity? There are tribes in Africa and South America who only tell legends and ghost stories about the white man's existence. What about when they die? Straight to Hell for being born in Africa?
In my opinion, sending someone to Hell for not worshiping you is not the mark of a perfect God, its the mark of an egotistical deity who does not love each and every person the same. Following the same line of thought, does that mean he only loves those that worship him? And if he is all knowing, surely he would be able to predict who would worship him and who would refrain. So why was I even sent here in the first place if that is the case?
Do you really, in your heart, believe that that God is so egotistical that only by being prepared to submit yourself to him through a life of worship, can you be saved? Are the cards really that stacked against humanity?
When will Hell run out of room?
I regular a myspace forum with kids my age, and we talk alot about religion, politics, and of course, High School life. What bothers me the most about our religious talks is that the Christian kids often state that nonbelievers are automatically sent to Hell.
I do not mind the Christian religion at all, but this one idea really turns me off of it. And it seems like often I am treated as inferior by some Christians because I do not attend Church. Because of this, I rarely discuss and express my own spiritual beliefs with many of my friends, family, and especially my girlfriend's family, for fear of judgment. It seems like online in the forums is the only place I get express my spiritual ideas.
That, however, is not what this thread is about. Since I am new to the forum I figured I would give you some background information on myself. That information, however, is relevant to this topic:
Say that the Bible instead said that people would be saved based on their actions and not their faith.
How many people do you think would go to Church?
In addition, if the number of people going to Church dropped, would the crime rate go up? In my opinion, yes.
People go to Church, because it says to in the Bible. The people believe what the pastors tell them, which is to live a moral life, as depicted in the Bible. People, fearing the wrath of God, live moral lives.
It's a chain of events leading back to the classic "faith alone can save you." Without that passage, we all know that a good deal less people would go to Church. Less people would be God fearing. And therefore, more people would commit sin without considering the consequences.
Is it so hard to believe, therefore, that God would lie to us? That he would mislead us? Not to be malicious, but to instill a more stable religious base inside our community, therefore leading our race to a more prosperous future? After all, we are his greatest project, and if he is a loving God, he wants us to succeed.
And while some people believe that God would not lie to us, because God is a perfect being who does not commit sin, I remind that "sin" is a relative word that we can only judge based on our earthly experiences and the Bible. If God exists, he is on an astronomical plane of existence, where demons, angels, and where the balance of the Universe is constantly being tested. So do you think that God misleading us so that we may lead more moral lives is such a far fetched idea? Do you think that, cosmically speaking, it could even be considered a sin?
After all, God has been responsible for the deaths of millions, even in the Bible with Noah's Ark, God has been linked to death. Yet in the commandments, it says "Thou shalt not kill." This proves that if God exists, that he is such a superior being that he does not have to bend to the laws he has presented to govern us.
Certainly there are degrees of sin.
Lying to someone is not as bad as killing them.
Cursing is not as bad as cheating.
Therefore, if God is a logical being, then do you really think he would consider letting a reformed rapist/murderer into Heaven just because that rapist/murderer started reading the Bible and reformed? Yet, he would condemn a moral man, or even a MORE than moral man, straight to Hell because that man wasn't swayed by the Christian religion? Is murder less of a sin than ignorance?
How about those people born in parts of the world outside the reach of Christianity? There are tribes in Africa and South America who only tell legends and ghost stories about the white man's existence. What about when they die? Straight to Hell for being born in Africa?
In my opinion, sending someone to Hell for not worshiping you is not the mark of a perfect God, its the mark of an egotistical deity who does not love each and every person the same. Following the same line of thought, does that mean he only loves those that worship him? And if he is all knowing, surely he would be able to predict who would worship him and who would refrain. So why was I even sent here in the first place if that is the case?
Do you really, in your heart, believe that that God is so egotistical that only by being prepared to submit yourself to him through a life of worship, can you be saved? Are the cards really that stacked against humanity?
When will Hell run out of room?
