Does god make a good parent?

[jonman122]

lol no, armageddon is not about going to heaven.

Jw's do not teach that everyone is going to heaven.... there is only a very small number who will go to heaven and they are spoken of in Revelation as the 144,000. That is a literal number of people taken from the earth...they are also called 'the chosen' or 'Christs brothers' or 'the little flock'.

The rest of mankind will have the prospect of living on the earth under the rule of God alone. This is what Armageddons purpose is...its Gods war against Satan and his demons, against wicked world rulers and those who cause suffering to others.

After armageddon, those whom God deems as rightly disposed (righteous) will be able to live directly under his rulership rather then man made rulerships. So armageddon is a war to end all wars and it will come at Gods hand.

the only problem is this will never happen, and i've never seen anything supporting the idea that it will. At best the world will be consumed in flame when the atmosphere burns or the sun explodes and everything on earth turns to dust, including probably the earth itself. So much for gods holy war. But it's ok, you still have 6 billion years or so to make your preperations.

 

[Pegg]

ahhh so god plays favorites, i still don't understand why the need to sell a house though...you still need cash under gods rule

LOL

i wonder the same thing myself

but i guess some of them thought if they were cashed up they could spend a lot of time preaching rather then working secular jobs...it was only some extremists who did that...actually I know an elderly couple who did that, but they are still jw's they just got caught up in the speculation and thought that it would be a good idea to not be tied down and spend more time in the preaching work.

 

[Pegg]

Thats all fine and dandy, but I've been told directly from my mom what will happen.
Be appalled because its what has been clearly stated is happening if i state what i am.

Well its not the society that tell your parents to be that way. In the brochure 'Jehovahs witnesses and education' it states under the chapter entitled
Moral Values that Merit Respect
You should also know that Jehovah’s Witnesses attach much importance to the individual Christian conscience. (Romans, chapter 14) The Convention on the Rights of the Child, adopted by the General Assembly of the United Nations in 1989, recognized a child’s right to “freedom of thought, conscience and religion” and the right “to express his or her opinion freely and to have that opinion taken into account in any matter or procedure affecting the child.”

No two children are exactly alike. Therefore, you may reasonably expect some variations in the decisions that young Witnesses or other students make when it comes to certain activities and assignments at school. We trust that you also subscribe to the principle of freedom of conscience.


It also states:
In practice, all children have to decide what religion they will follow. Naturally, not all youths choose to follow the religious principles of their parents, whether Jehovah’s Witnesses or not.

Of course this is speaking about witnesses who choose to excersize their right to freedom of worship while at school, but the principle applies equally to those who choose NOT to. Non belief is as much a matter of conscience as belief is and as a parent I have to respect that my kids may not adopt my beliefs...that is their right and its a right that Jehovah endows us all to make...including you.

 

[AnnaTheBeast]

I dont care what that says.
she told me that if im athiest i might as well be an apostate and that I would be out BECAUSE of religon.

 

[waitasec]

LOL

i wonder the same thing myself

but i guess some of them thought if they were cashed up they could spend a lot of time preaching rather then working secular jobs...it was only some extremists who did that...actually I know an elderly couple who did that, but they are still jw's they just got caught up in the speculation and thought that it would be a good idea to not be tied down and spend more time in the preaching work.

so what the deal, why not follow the christian bible? why are the other religions the wrong religions?

 

[Pegg]

so what the deal, why not follow the christian bible? why are the other religions the wrong religions?

we do follow the christian bible... just because we have our own translation does not mean that its not a christian bible.

We used to use the KJV for many years...it was the KJV bible that was used when the JW's beliefs were being founded by Charles Russell. the New World Translation bible wasnt produced until 1949.

Other christian denominations choose to keep certain non biblical teachings as part of their doctrine...such as trinity, hellfire, virgin mary worship, pergatory and they have many other non biblical beliefs that they teach.

We dont. We teach only what comes from the bible.

 

[Pegg]

I dont care what that says.
she told me that if im athiest i might as well be an apostate and that I would be out BECAUSE of religon.

Ok, well Im not going to keep pushing the point with you that its not the WT society who tell them that they should do that.

They are obviously a lot stricter then i am as a parent, i certainly will not be kicking my kids out of the family home just because they may not become a jw and they know that. I just feel sorry that its the situation that you are in and i can understand your animosity.

 

[AnnaTheBeast]

Sorry if I was reacting harshly.
They are strict yes.

 

[Pegg]

Sorry if I was reacting harshly.
They are strict yes.

no dont be sorry, you are probably sick and tired of being preached at so im sorry if i was coming across that way...it wasnt my intention.

 

[AnnaTheBeast]

I am but I also know that this is a religous site so you have the rite =P No harm done though

 

[AnnaTheBeast]

To Pegg AND Murf:
I researched hard and long and this is what it says about your 'probably'.

Go find the book entitled 'the Time is at Hand"

skip to page 76 and 77 starting with the last paragraph on 76 that CLEARLY STATES:

"In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the time of the Gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that that date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men."

Page 99 states:

"In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the Kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914"


Page 101 states:

"Be not surprised, then when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the "battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev 16:14) , which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies in plainly visible from the standpoint of God's Word."

Page 226

"Now in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They say that they do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures-nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but the end of the time of trouble."

 

[Pegg]

To Pegg AND Murf:
I researched hard and long and this is what it says about your 'probably'.

Go find the book entitled 'the Time is at Hand"

skip to page 76 and 77 starting with the last paragraph on 76 that CLEARLY STATES:

"In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the time of the Gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that that date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men."

Page 99 states:

"In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the Kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914"


Page 101 states:

"Be not surprised, then when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the "battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev 16:14) , which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies in plainly visible from the standpoint of God's Word."

Page 226

"Now in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They say that they do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures-nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but the end of the time of trouble."

Anna, no one is saying that 100 years ago the early bible students got things wrong. have you read the book 'Jehovahs Witnesses' that book lists quite openly the various things that they got wrong but it also shows how their understanding was adjusted.

You are looking at a book written before the last century. And yes, those early bible students, brother Russell specifically believed that 1914 was a significant year. It was always stated by him that 1914 would mark the end of the 'gentile times' and the year that Jesus would begin ruling in the heavenly kingdom.

That is still the belief today...that part he got right. What he got wrong was that he though it would mean that Gods kingdom would bring armageddon as soon as it was installed...thats the part he got wrong.

 

[jonman122]

Anna, no one is saying that 100 years ago the early bible students got things wrong. have you read the book 'Jehovahs Witnesses' that book lists quite openly the various things that they got wrong but it also shows how their understanding was adjusted.

You are looking at a book written before the last century. And yes, those early bible students, brother Russell specifically believed that 1914 was a significant year. It was always stated by him that 1914 would mark the end of the 'gentile times' and the year that Jesus would begin ruling in the heavenly kingdom.

That is still the belief today...that part he got right. What he got wrong was that he though it would mean that Gods kingdom would bring armageddon as soon as it was installed...thats the part he got wrong.

Charles taze russel is also the man who started the entire religion, so how can you say "he got it wrong?" He got his own religion wrong?

 

[AnnaTheBeast]

"nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates not ours."

Are you telling me god is wrong?

 

[McBell]

"nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates not ours."

Are you telling me god is wrong?

*bites tongue*

 

[Pegg]

Charles taze russel is also the man who started the entire religion, so how can you say "he got it wrong?" He got his own religion wrong?

its not his religion

and yes he did get some things wrong...but he also got a lot of things very right.

 

[Pegg]

"nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates not ours."

Are you telling me god is wrong?

God is never wrong. Brother Russell came to understand that 1914 was the year of christs enthronement...Bible chronology proved it back then and still proves it today. He admitted that he had the wrong idea in thinking that it was also the 'end'. He stated in the WT of Feb 1, 1916:

“‘But, Brother Russell, what is your thought as to the time of our change? Were you not disappointed that it did not come when we hoped that it would?’ you will ask. No, we reply, we were not disappointed. . . . when we found out that we were expecting the wrong thing in October, 1914, then we were glad that the Lord did not change His Plan to suit us.”

You have to remember that the brothers were reading an ancient book that they, like every other church, were trying hard to comprehend....that understanding did not all come at once..it came in stages as the years progressed.

 

[Misty]

God is never wrong

That is funny.

Russell was a right twit by all accounts!

 

[Revoltingest]

Russell was a right twit by all accounts!

Well, what religious leader/prophet/zombie isn't a twit? They all push some loony set of myths as the absolute inerrant truth.
They JWs impress me in one really useful way though - they're benign...no voting, no soldiering, & unfailingly pleasant to me.
I contrast that with other religions where the adherents are continually trying to get the government to force me to do something,
no vile demonstrations at funerals, no fertilizer bombs in trucks, no Pope lobbying against capitalism, etc, etc. JWs are just plain
cute & lovable!

 

[Misty]

Well, what religious leader/prophet/zombie isn't a twit? They all push some loony set of myths as the absolute inerrant truth.
They JWs impress me in one really useful way though - they're benign...no voting, no soldiering, & unfailingly pleasant to me.
I contrast that with other religions where the adherents are continually trying to get the government to force me to do something,
no vile demonstrations at funerals, no fertilizer bombs in trucks, no Pope lobbying against capitalism, etc, etc. JWs are just plain
cute & lovable!

I don't think the JW creed is benign. I was told by a couple of JWs 24 years ago that my baby son would have been better off dead than receive a life saving blood transfusion! Just recently in the UK a teenage JW boy died rather than have a blood transfusion, which would certainly have saved his life!