Does God make mistakes

[savagewind]

Sin is failure to do what is right. What is right? God knows.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I do not believe that a person called EVE is someone who could have been tempted.

You get my point though, right?

 

[savagewind]

You get my point though, right?

Id see it as a good thing. Without it, how could eve even be tempted. There'd be no temptation to sin (freedom to choose) that would get them kicked from the garden (assuming for a min this isnt a metaphor). How could the devil be the devil without the "product" of sin?

Why would the bibme refer to flesh as bad and jesus die if the flesh was not sin and crucifiction shedding that sin to bring life.

To me, it would be positive. Ironic, I know.

For Jesus to be Jesus there had to first be sin. Is that your point? I get it.

 

[EtuMalku]

Not being much in the way of theism and Right Hand Paths, I believe this statement from biblical scholar Robert Eisler sums up what SIN truly is.

"The very feeling of sin, the consciousness of having done something 'im-moral', contrary to the mores, customs or habits of the herd, could not be experienced before a part of the herd had wrenched itself free from the inherited behaviour-pattern and radically changed its way of life from that of a frugivorous to that of a carnivorous or omnivorous animal."

 

[savagewind]

Not being much in the way of theism and Right Hand Paths, I believe this statement from biblical scholar Robert Eisler sums up what SIN truly is.

"The very feeling of sin, the consciousness of having done something 'im-moral', contrary to the mores, customs or habits of the herd, could not be experienced before a part of the herd had wrenched itself free from the inherited behaviour-pattern and radically changed its way of life from that of a frugivorous to that of a carnivorous or omnivorous animal."

I think that sin and the feeling of sin are two different animals.

Everyone but psychopaths knows the feeling of sin. But only God knows what are sins and what are not sins imho.

 

[EtuMalku]

Sin is failure to do what is right. What is right? God knows.

Right and Wrong are subjective terms . . . they do not intrinsically exist

 

[EtuMalku]

I think that sin and the feeling of sin are two different animals.

Everyone but psychopaths knows the feeling of sin. But only God knows what are sins and what are not sins imho.

IMHO there is no god and therefore Sin is nothing more than another subjective term

 

[savagewind]

Right and Wrong are subjective terms . . . they do not intrinsically exist

I have found my least faVORITE WORD (FOR ANOTHER THREAD). Thank you. I think I might agree with you if I might correctly wrap my mind around the meaning of intrinsic.

 

[savagewind]

IMHO there is no god and therefore Sin is nothing more than another subjective term

OK! It is why we are on the forum. Is it not?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

For Jesus to be Jesus there had to first be sin. Is that your point? I get it.

My point: God had to create sin because that is the flesh of Jesus. Without creating sin as part of his design for salvation, how are christians saved?

That, and should christians worship the devil too for creating sin (if he did) because that led them to be save?

If humans created sin, should we be proud of this because without it, christians couldnt be saved? So somehow, christians had some part of god's plan of salvaton?

I know it is ironic, but thats my view. Also with the other post of humans cant create sin.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

You grossly misrepresent the facts. God did not create sin. He first gave man agency and then a choice to either obey or not. Man's choice brought sin into the world. Since we are all mortal and are prone to make mistakes, or rather, sin, in order for us to be able to return to our Father in Heaven, a penalty had to be paid for those sins. Since we could not pay that penalty ourselves, God the Son Himself paid it for us.

I wish I understood the desire or motive to want to discredit God.

Actually, since Adam and Eve (the latter having not been alive at the time the rule was given anyway) didn't know right from wrong specifically because it was a gift of that tree, they couldn't have sinned. God made the tree, so God made sin. Adam and Eve then start the blame game after eating and assume nudity is a sin even though no one said it was, so technically it was all that lying nonsense AFTERWARD which was the first sin, which they couldn't have done had God not created a magic fruit that gives you that opportunity.

I wish I understood the desire or motive to clear God of any wrongdoing. Is morality such a fragile, fickle thing?

No, I'm challenging your reading of the passage. It says nothing about God creating sin.

Wait, evil =/= sin?

With me? If God created sin than he is Mafia. There would be no one to respect. Yes? If there was no one to respect then how would we learn to respect ourselves?

When you aren't loved, it is possible to learn love: do NOT do the things that are hurtful to you. If you are hurt, learn not to do those hurtful things. Boom -- done.

"I may not be a smart man, but I know what love is" -- Gump

The Hebrew term for "sin" simply means "to miss" or "absent." Sin is absence -- or separation -- from God. "Sin" and "evil" aren't synonymous. Humanity created that separation, and humanity creates evil.

To be separate from an omnipresent God is some trick.

After all, if Adam and Eve's "sin" separated them from God, how come God can still come over for a chat? How can God speak to Cain? How can God speak to Moses? Etc ...

 

[savagewind]

My point: God had to create sin because that is the flesh of Jesus. Without creating sin as part of his design for salvation, how are christians saved?

That, and should christians worship the devil too for creating sin (if he did) because that led them to be save?

If humans created sin, should we be proud of this because without it, christians couldnt be saved? So somehow, christians had some part of god's plan of salvaton?

I know it is ironic, but thats my view. Also with the other post of humans cant create sin.

I do not believe that Jesus flesh was sin. I do not agree that Jesus takes sins away. Jesus is for escaping sin's clutch imo. Sin can be likened to laziness. Jesus gets us in shape if we will run with him.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I do not believe that Jesus flesh was sin. I do not agree that Jesus takes sins away. Jesus is for escaping sin's clutch imo. Sin can be likened to laziness. Jesus gets us in shape if we will run with him.

AH! Now wonder. We are coming from different views.

What are your views about the nature of salvation and Jesus role?

 

[EtuMalku]

I do not believe that Jesus flesh was sin. I do not agree that Jesus takes sins away. Jesus is for escaping sin's clutch imo. Sin can be likened to laziness. Jesus gets us in shape if we will run with him.

Easy there with the proselytizing LOL! Jesus couldn't even Save himself . . . what makes you think he can save us?
Personally, I do not run with those who can't even walk

 

[Skwim]

You grossly misrepresent the facts. God did not create sin. He first gave man agency and then a choice to either obey or not. Man's choice brought sin into the world.

I know you'll say you have no place to judge god; however, those of us who do, will point out that laying the consequences of a single misdeed committed by one (maybe two) person on the whole of humanity is far from just. Would you ever go to such extremes in meting out punishment, visiting it upon the innocent? I highly doubt it.

I wish I understood the desire or motive to want to discredit God.

perhaps it's because Christians are so intent on denying his foibles and in stead concentrate on the good he is said to do for the believer. I think the following is a very apt summery of the Christian understanding.

​

Of course if I'm wrong please point out my error.

 

[sojourner]

SIN is from the Proto-Germanic 'Sunjo' meaning "transgression, trespass, offense"
It has no original meaning pertaining to the Abrahamic god and His mythology

And the Hebrew term that's translated "sin" means "separation." Which do you suppose is the better definitional term? The roginal, or a translation?

 

[sojourner]

Humanity cant create evil. Evil is only defined when we create morals we choose to break. Without those morals, evil does not exist. Humans arent the bad guys. Its our morals that can make people do things they may not want to do.

Humanity doesn't create evil? Who enacts slavery? Who committed genocide against the First Nations Americans? Who committed genocide against the Jews in WWII? Human beings. We create the moral codes that define "evil." No matter how you slice what you've said here, humanity is responsible for evil.

 

[EtuMalku]

And the Hebrew term that's translated "sin" means "separation." Which do you suppose is the better definitional term? The roginal, or a translation?

IMO the Proto-Germanic

 

[savagewind]

AH! Now wonder. We are coming from different views.

What are your views about the nature of salvation and Jesus role?

I think God created life for Jesus.

 

[sojourner]

Actually, since Adam and Eve (the latter having not been alive at the time the rule was given anyway) didn't know right from wrong specifically because it was a gift of that tree, they couldn't have sinned. God made the tree, so God made sin.

They separated themselves from God following having their eyes opened. God made the tree, but God didn't create separation. Humanity did that on our own.